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Korppi

G&P GBB M4A1 family

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WE = Glock

WA = 1911

 

And here is why.

 

Glock, cheap and works right out of the box, partly becos only Glock makes it, aftermarket parts (other the night sights, big dot) are a wast of money.

 

1911, Need to spend a fair bit of cash to make it run, many makers, all making slightly diffrent versions, massiv amount of aftermarket parts, most will not help the gun shoot.

 

I am not saying this is 100% true (or even 1%) but WA guns looks good, and in 12 years of playing I have never seen one run perfect, to be fair I have also seen some of the ###### WE put on the market, when it comes down to it who wants a good looking 2000 USD gun that you have to tinker with all the time? I want a fair priced gun that shoots out of the box from a company that will sell me standart parts also at a fair price, that way no mater what I mess up I can bring the gun back to stock, and not have to mess around with "upgrade" parts.

 

Anyway I hope the G&P gun shoots, and make some cheap mags.

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WE = Glock

WA = 1911

 

And here is why.

 

Glock, cheap and works right out of the box, partly becos only Glock makes it, aftermarket parts (other the night sights, big dot) are a wast of money.

 

1911, Need to spend a fair bit of cash to make it run, many makers, all making slightly diffrent versions, massiv amount of aftermarket parts, most will not help the gun shoot.

 

I am not saying this is 100% true (or even 1%) but WA guns looks good, and in 12 years of playing I have never seen one run perfect, to be fair I have also seen some of the ###### WE put on the market, when it comes down to it who wants a good looking 2000 USD gun that you have to tinker with all the time? I want a fair priced gun that shoots out of the box from a company that will sell me standart parts also at a fair price, that way no mater what I mess up I can bring the gun back to stock, and not have to mess around with "upgrade" parts.

 

Anyway I hope the G&P gun shoots, and make some cheap mags.

 

Glocks are reliable, it can't be a WE....

 

I feel WE's are more like AR-15s, sure they work, but sometimes they don't

 

 

 

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WE's aren't that bad... most, if not all of the problems are comparatively small, and easily remedied through AirsoftBuddy. It's not like it has some critical failure, whereas the WA M4 platform does. More than one at the moment, might I add.

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All G&P M4 GBBs were taken off the shelves here in Hong Kong, because of major quality problems.

 

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All G&P M4 GBBs were taken off the shelves here in Hong Kong, because of major quality problems.

 

Care to give more detail on that? I see you praising the Inok and badmouthing the WE, WA, and now the G&P at every opportunity.

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All G&P M4 GBBs were taken off the shelves here in Hong Kong, because of major quality problems.

 

Oi, I guess that made that decision easy!

 

Care to elaborate a little bit more on "Major Quality Problems"

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Some ppl are just dead set in their ways,these g&p units look a lot more

sturdier than the wa m4.And from the list of parts,should be a strong

gun.Time will tell.I'm waiting for some one to do a review that is unbias

from some one not selling or any connection to some one selling these.

Things I would like to know are If the length of barrel will put me over

my 400FPS field limit on propane/green gas with .20g's.I know I have

asked before and I thank those that have replied,but I need to know

for sure.Also the cool down time for when the BB,s meet the meat,

I'll need to return fire to cover my butt or my team member.Is the

accuracy on par with the AEG's?.

Edited by Budman

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All G&P M4 GBBs were taken off the shelves here in Hong Kong, because of major quality problems.

 

Care too elaborate on that? Im not seeing this info ANYWHERE else.

Edited by MCXL

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I am very tempted (despite the announcement about quality problems - for those will be fixed over time and I am in no hurry) to buy one of those M16A4 variants and customize it into a DMR. As I live and play in Southern California, temperature is not a problem. I probably would buy only one additional magazine for it (stashed in a stock-mounted pouch), as I already have AEGs to back it up if the heat gets close.

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All G&P WA-type GBBs were sent to one local online shop here in HK last week.

They have various issues of different level. A major one being unwanted side-tilting movement between the upper and lower receivers from sightly noticeable to alarmingly obvious. The result: Temporary suspension of sales of the G&P GBBs until the problem is solved.

 

I think it'll be the first affordable M4 GBB that is both WE-reliable and WA-realistic, while the Inokatsu is like the Merc for the few.

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All G&P WA-type GBBs were sent to one local online shop here in HK last week.

They have various issues of different level. A major one being unwanted side-tilting movement between the upper and lower receivers from sightly noticeable to alarmingly obvious. The result: Temporary suspension of sales of the G&P GBBs until the problem is solved.

 

I think it'll be the first affordable M4 GBB that is both WE-reliable and WA-realistic, while the Inokatsu is like the Merc for the few.

 

Hm, interesting. Any details on other problems? Any time frame for the "fix" to occur?

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No info yet, but I bet it won't take long. When it's fixed I will have a closer look at it and make my decision between her and the Inokatsu, unless new competitors have entered the market by then.

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No info yet, but I bet it won't take long. When it's fixed I will have a closer look at it and make my decision between her and the Inokatsu, unless new competitors have entered the market by then.

 

My G&P M16A4 had a slight upper reciever woble. Never bothered me much but on this it would. What were the other more minor problems so that if they dont get addressed we can fix them ourselves before operation?

 

G&P Mags slated for release anytime soon? Like I said, the only thing holding me back right now is the magazines.

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My G&P M16A4 had a slight upper reciever woble. Never bothered me much but on this it would. What were the other more minor problems so that if they dont get addressed we can fix them ourselves before operation?

 

G&P Mags slated for release anytime soon? Like I said, the only thing holding me back right now is the magazines.

If it's only the magazines, PGC will release a WA/INO/G&P compatible magazine. It's supposed to be improved (whatever that means) and more affordable.

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Slight wobble between the upper and lower receivers is NORMAL on alot of real guns and has ZERO affect on accuracy or function.

 

Please note i said, SLIGHT.

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WA systems aren't meant for green so don't buy them! they have bolt lock problems, leaky mags, plastic parts, oh and it's expensive! People on this forum should all buy WE's instead! The g&p is built on WA. Save your money and buy a WE. It's cheaper to buy as a whole, comes with a metal body, and parts including replacement parts are way cheaper! Taiwan products are better than Japanese products! Clones FTW! Who needs research and development? That's what cheap customers are for! "Hey...this broke...can i get a replacement?" Oh! Time to release version 2! So don't buy Western Arms! Buy W..... E..... (i don't know what WE stands for).

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^

|

WE fanboy vs WA fanboys, GO!! :rolleyes:

 

WE is currently a very viable and attractive skirmishing platform, definitely more so than the WA in stock form. The realism isn't as far removed as many WA fanboys would think. The WE even has some internals that are MORE realistic to real steel. On top of all that, the WE has a drop in bolt that lets you change the FPS to about 350, or 480, which gives it huge points for being able to accomodate both CQB and outdoors play. The mags seem to be holding up very well, too. Definitely don't need to mention the price tag too: At $350 or so, the WE M4 can't be beat, especially with the relatively cheap mags.

 

On the other hand, WA has the benefit of being out longer, which means better aftermarket support (currently). That could certainly change, and it's not looking too good right now: I'm hearing G&P's WA M4's are being recalled, the Inokatsus, while being great, are ridiculously expensive and still suffers from reliability problems inherent in the platform, including mag and FPS variability. However, if aftermarket PGC mags actually do come out, and if they ARE good, then maybe the WA offshoots will be able to compete directly with the WE. They still look to be very expensive though... I believe the G&P WA M4's were in the $650+ range. I believe the WA M4 platform still has much catching up to do in order to compete with WE, despite what the fanboys say. Personally, I'd like to see it grow, but very much of it is very overrated right now.

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I don't think Western Arms is competing with anyone from Taiwan. They're the only GBB m4 in the market mass producing their products. They have a much greater customer base compared to WE. If a handful of people on this forum get support by getting replacement parts direct from the main distributor then there must not be THAT many customers. On the other hand, where FPS limits are a big thing, WA must be doing something right since they keep releasing more and more models. To me...it IS apples and oranges (they're both fruits but completely different altogether). Though they are both airsoft, and they are both GBB m4's, they are aimed at 2 completely different markets. This is a G&P thread, and so far from what i've seen from their aftermarket parts the steel outer barrels were very nice and heavy. I haven't seen the aluminum one in person but i hear it's a lot lighter and a little darker in color. The steel bolt stops that first came out were pieces of cr@p. I broke mine in half (where the weld was) after just 3 shots on green. And there were problems with the g&p metal bodies not giving a nice perfect fit from the beginning so i wouldn't doubt there being a recall based on that. They haven't made any complete bolt replacements and from the pictures it seems it's the stock wa bolt carriers (need more pics to confirm) and the nozzle may be the ones from airsoft surgeon. Could be why it took so long for them to release it to the public...they were making a whole bunch for g&p perhaps?

 

But yeah...WA platform is expensive...don't buy it. Stick to clone AEG's! They're am is the bestest out there cuz their prices ish low and they be made out of hard metal!

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Stuff

 

SO what you are saying is that WA makes stuff for collectores? if you want something to shoot look elsewhere?

 

Becose otherwise I don't see the apples and oranges thing alt all.

 

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What i'm saying is that WA is marketed towards the japanese. They never were targeting exporting products. Why do you think they STILL make their guns all plastic and shooting under 1J? Why do you think they don't have a "special" export version to send overseas? G&P and INO are the ones making the overseas versions of WA, not WA themselves. If you or even I were to try calling Western Arms to ask for a replacement hop-up unit do you think they'd send me a free replacement like WE's airsoft buddy does? No, if they were to even respond they'd send me a link to where i could buy a replacement. Why do you think that is? They don't have to service customers like WE does. Western Arms has the quality and the name that sells. G&P has their ups and downs as well...everything i bought from them were a hit and miss.

 

Apples and oranges:

 

The original WA gbb system (aka THE APPLE) was meant for 134a gas. WA targets more collectors since they make special edition pistols all the time. It's primary goal is form & realism over skirmishability (throwing it around and dropping mags). But they make sure the system WORKS when used to shoot around. Companies like Marui on the other hand build guns for skirmishing. They even target little kids with the 10+ series "toys". People who broke their guns using crappy cheap bb's and green gas or even propane complain that it sucks. Would you put jet fuel in your car? All g&p did was make reinforced steel parts in order for people who wanted to run green out of the box to do so. G&P is marketing overseas customers using WA's realistic design.

 

Now WE on the other hand started off with the idea of using green from the beginning and made their rifles shoot as hard as possible. Claiming that their gun can shoot with co2 proves that they were about raw power. Although their mags were only 30 rounds, they've recently produced a 50 rd mag but i haven't heard how well it can shoot all 50. Their primary goal was price & skirmishability. Making ones w/o patented trademarks proves it. Their parts are metal but it doesn't mean it's built well. The purpose for cheap parts are for easy replacements when broken under normal skirmish stress conditions. Therefore the WE is more skirmishable out of the box BECAUSE of it's cheap replacement parts. When things break you just gotta pay a few dollars for the replacement part. However...that's all the parts there are currently, replacement parts not necessarily improved 3rd party reinforced parts at this time so there's a chance it can still break again.

 

The WE is targeted towards the daily green gas/power hungry skirmisher while the WA is targeted towards replica "collector" & tinkerer/builder. G&P came in to fill that gap and made pretty darn affordable WA platformed guns that can handle green gas and has the realistic mechanics of the real m4.

 

I'm not fanboying anything...I'm just trying to get less people to buy the WA only to say it sucks cuz it breaks on green gas. When someone buys a clone and it breaks I laugh. When someone who buys clones buys the WA and treats it like a clone only to break it and then WHINE about how much money they spent and it broke I get annoyed. If you can't afford something like a PTW, don't buy a WA type platform. If you like to build/tinker/modify more than play buy a WA type gun. If you plan on playing with the gun rather than playing/modifying/tinerking with the gun, buy a WE. Simple as that. Those that can see the potential in something special don't grumble.

 

----yes...i have too much time at work so i can type these long replies--- :D replies/criticisms are welcomed!

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...

 

Good points, just a few clarifications, there is no WE 50rnd magazine, that was a typo. I also doubt the materials used in the Gen 2 WE is worse than the stuff in the stock WA. If anything, its better. I mean the stock WA just seems cheap. The only redeeming characterstic is the fact that its a GBB.

Edited by slu

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All G&P WA-type GBBs were sent to one local online shop here in HK last week.

They have various issues of different level. A major one being unwanted side-tilting movement between the upper and lower receivers from sightly noticeable to alarmingly obvious. The result: Temporary suspension of sales of the G&P GBBs until the problem is solved.

 

Really not surprised here, my G&P WA MBK had major wobble between the rear receiver pins.. very annoying and required a lot of work to fix <_<

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