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Korppi

G&P GBB M4A1 family

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Shinhk, we agree almost down the line, BUT there is no law about producing full metal airsoft guns in Japan, just look at the new stuff from TM, they to have a branch organization called ASGK, who set guidelines for the airsoft industry in Japan, that is where the metal body nonsens comes from, the 1J IS limit is law on the other hand.

 

So WA does have freedom to make a metal version if they wanted to, they could even do as systema and tanaka and make a export version for green gas.

 

But as you say the make guns for collectors.

 

So the real question is if the WA system can even become a shooter is you throw enough money at it, or if the design is letting it down in that regard.

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Really not surprised here, my G&P WA MBK had major wobble between the rear receiver pins.. very annoying and required a lot of work to fix <_<

 

How did you fix the whobble?

 

D.O.C.

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Shinhk, we agree almost down the line, BUT there is no law about producing full metal airsoft guns in Japan, just look at the new stuff from TM, they to have a branch organization called ASGK, who set guidelines for the airsoft industry in Japan, that is where the metal body nonsens comes from, the 1J IS limit is law on the other hand.

 

So WA does have freedom to make a metal version if they wanted to, they could even do as systema and tanaka and make a export version for green gas.

 

But as you say the make guns for collectors.

 

So the real question is if the WA system can even become a shooter is you throw enough money at it, or if the design is letting it down in that regard.

Ah good point about the Marui. Guess I was going on past designs from these companies esp western arms. Well if you look at them japanese kids they aren't very bulky and big so maybe light = more appeal? haha i'm japanese btw...and i like light guns =) And i do believe the WA CAN (and in some cases has) become a shooter if you throw enough money at it. But people are so used to cheap guns and parts that to them $500 is too much to spend on a project base. I bought my first Marui AEG MP5 in 1998 for over $400 and at the time metal or even systema parts were practically impossible to get. Ever since the clone wars, people don't appreciate their roots or what's out there and only look at price.

 

Either way I'd much rather have good quality plastic than cheap brittle metal. At least plastic flexes a little and when it gets scratched you don't see silver.

 

Here's a couple of questions to anyone who cares enough to read my posts. Which would you choose...a full metal WA (WA, G&P, INO) system, or a full metal WE system if both were free, both were green gas/co2 compatible, spare mags were free and easy to get and both shot/performed perfectly and reliably 100% of the time? Now the other question...why?

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That's kinda like asking, what if we took all of the WAs flaws and removed them... what point are you trying to make?

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If they cost the same, shot the same, performance, no cooldown, same power, same kick, no feed issues, same durability...etc. The the judging factor is how accurate the replica is, so the WA would be my choice. Function doesn't come into it at all.

 

Edited by 3vi1-D4n

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Here's a couple of questions to anyone who cares enough to read my posts. Which would you choose...a full metal WA (WA, G&P, INO) system, or a full metal WE system if both were free, both were green gas/co2 compatible, spare mags were free and easy to get and both shot/performed perfectly and reliably 100% of the time? Now the other question...why?

 

If that magically happened, I'd take the WA, as it has more aftermarket support, and Inokatsus forged receivers are probably the coolest thing I've ever heard of in airsoft.

Also, the WA has a more realistic bolt (it looks more real with the bolt pulled back).

 

However, your scenario won't happen, as the WE gas system is just much more effective than the WA. Less gas is wasted, etc.

So even if the WA was as cheap as the WE and had a similar metal body and cheap-ish mags, I'd still pick the WE.

 

 

If I was in the market for a gas-in-the-mag gun, that is.

External for me, thanks ;)

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I keep hearing that the Inok receivers are made from steel. Why would they go and do that? The thing must weigh a ton, and I'm quite sure forged aluminum would've been an equally viable option.

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How did you fix the whobble?

 

D.O.C.

 

Tried rubber O-rings but eventually ground down and shaped an appropriate sized steel washer and used special adhesive to keep it in place, then painted my gun so you wouldn't see it ;)

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I keep hearing that the Inok receivers are made from steel. Why would they go and do that? The thing must weigh a ton, and I'm quite sure forged aluminum would've been an equally viable option.

 

The INO receivers are not made of steel, they are made from forged alloy like the RS counterpart.

I have one here... actually a nice metal body but wobble between upper and lower is really dissapointing.

 

 

D.O.C.

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{...}

 

Here's a couple of questions to anyone who cares enough to read my posts. Which would you choose...a full metal WA (WA, G&P, INO) system, or a full metal WE system if both were free, both were green gas/co2 compatible, spare mags were free and easy to get and both shot/performed perfectly and reliably 100% of the time? Now the other question...why?

Not a question really. The only reason for buying an out-of-the-box WE is sacrificing realism for more reliability and budget concerns.

 

Even if WA and WE are the same in reliability and all, in the end the WE still has the fugly brass gas chamber.

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That's actually my point. If there were no flaws in either system and price was not an issue, most people would want a WA system. That is why a lot of people still buy over-priced airsoft rifles. It just shows that systems closest to the real steel functionality have more appeal to people. After all...why do people like to play with GBB pistols rather than NBB ones? NBB guns were cheaper, shot harder, and were more reliable since there was less moving parts. Yet, people would still buy GBB ones, and build upon it to shoot just as hard but with more awesomeness of the blowback. Unfortunately for a lot of WA people, their rifles have broken but what do you expect when you start pushing the limits of a gun meant for 134a by using something with more pressure? PTW owners don't try to modify their bolts to shoot with an m200 spring do they? Those who bought the WA and are trying to get it to work aren't stupid...they just like how well WA has replicated the RS system. Owners of the WA system have spent hundreds if not thousands of dollars to make their rifle perform perfectly. Why? Because if you can afford to do it, what better system to do it with than one that replicates the real steel version? I'm not at all dissing the WE. Heck if I was on a tight budget and I wanted a cheap airsoft gun then I'd be all over the WE. But I, just like a lot of other people, would rather have something as close as possible to the real steel counterpart. And if it means spending loads of money on it...so be it. If you use the WAM4 and treat it like any other stock Western Arms piece then it will work as it should. Not perfect or very reliable, but it works none the less. People who buy WA pistols know the fact that they're not awesome skirmish pieces unless quite a bit of money is put into it. If you're looking to get a G&P version, don't expect it to work perfectly like a marui AEG. You still might have to replace parts. But hey...$500 for a full metal western arms system with upgraded internals AND a damn magazine?!?!? That's a great place to start! If you're still not sure, my suggestion is to wait for someone to buy one of them and write a review.

 

On a side note...what if the company designs were reversed. What if WA made the WE system and vice versa? I'd be very hesitant to buy the WE system even though it was more realistic mainly because of the name and reliability of their guns. Not to mention WA has always had better aftermarket support than WE. To spend thousands of dollars on a WE to make it awesome just doesn't make sense to me since WE guns were never about quality but more about affordability. But I would NOT want to spend $600 on a WA that didn't replicate the real thing.

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Id rather pay 500-600 dollars for a product that works right out of the box and looks great with all the great features than rationalize paying +2000 dollars in total for a gun that MUST be upgraded to made to shoot well. IMO these guns should be made to last. Chinese clones at least equalize the playing field and bring up the quality level that should be maintained by companies to start with.

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Arcording to WE's homepage they made steel moldes for airsoft for 20 years, and the WE M4 is an original design from K1 costums, WE just makes it, AND all of this is happening in Taiwan, nor mainland China, Taiwan have been making airsoft products for many years.

 

SO lets stop with all the clone BS, the WE M4 is not a clone/copy or anything like that.

 

I made this product evolution list for denmark, all steps are nor universeal

 

1, Gun works.

2, 1 and takes M120 upgrade cheaply.

3, 1, 2 and is made in the same matrial as the RS counterpart.

4, 1, 2, 3 real diamentions, gun is now 1:1 with RS counterpart.

5, 1 til 4 + gun handling is now same as RS.

6, 1 til 5 + feedback from gun is now same as RS counter part.

 

And for eksampel the marushin M1 garant, it does everything but 1, and there for it stayes in my gun rack, when I would love to be using it.

 

 

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The INO receivers are not made of steel, they are made from forged alloy like the RS counterpart.

I have one here... actually a nice metal body but wobble between upper and lower is really dissapointing.

 

 

D.O.C.

Hi there, mind to share more about your experience with the Inokatsu?

How bad is the upper-lower wobble and any other flaws? Is topgas/green gas enough to cycle it properly and still get a hard enough kick?

 

Btw, I am from Germany too. What's the regulation on GBB rifles in Germany? I mean they have no fixed fps/joule, but depend on gas type and ambient temperature. Is full auto allowed for GBB rifles and still need the F cert?

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The INO receivers are not made of steel, they are made from forged alloy like the RS counterpart.

I have one here... actually a nice metal body but wobble between upper and lower is really dissapointing.

 

 

D.O.C.

 

 

Yeah I was sure it wasn't, but the reviews on Redwolf keep calling it out as steel. I guess you can never really trust the validity of "reviews" made by shops.

 

Interesting how the Inok also has the wobble issue. When everyone says wobble, do you mean left-right play between upper and lower?

Edited by slu

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Hi there, mind to share more about your experience with the Inokatsu?

How bad is the upper-lower wobble and any other flaws? Is topgas/green gas enough to cycle it properly and still get a hard enough kick?

 

Btw, I am from Germany too. What's the regulation on GBB rifles in Germany? I mean they have no fixed fps/joule, but depend on gas type and ambient temperature. Is full auto allowed for GBB rifles and still need the F cert?

 

I have not the NO complete gun, I just installed the MB-Kit along with some RA-Tech upgrade parts to my WA base.

So, cycling with oem WA bolt is no problem and recoil stays the same...

Wobble between upper and lower is a bit too much for my taste but the gun works,

only on FA I got issues sometimes and have to switch back to semi. :huh:

Also, the space for the trigger guard was a tad too narrow, I had mod that area to fit a Magpul Enh. Trigger Guard.

On the other hand, installing the MBK was a breeze and with the cheap, although the shiny surface finish,

the gun still looks far more real.

 

Regulations in Germany for GBB guns are the same as for AEGs, no fps limit until it shoots semi and got that F.

But, only if the gun comes with that fps stock, if you upgrade it yourself,

the gun have to be tested again to get the legal F... but practicaly, no one here cares for that

since most German do only skirmish outside Germany. ;)

 

Yeah I was sure it wasn't, but the reviews on Redwolf keep calling it out as steel. I guess you can never really trust the validity of "reviews" made by shops.

 

Interesting how the Inok also has the wobble issue. When everyone says wobble, do you mean left-right play between upper and lower?

 

I know the article and normaly the reviews from RW are very faithfull and correct, but this time... :whistling:

 

The wobble on the receiver is not from side to side, than rather up and down, about 0,5-0,8mm.

 

D.O.C.

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D.O.C. - wasn't there someone on GGI who used an accuwedge to eliminate the wobble? The up and down "play" I mean. I think it was with the INO body kit as well. I know the G&P had some sideways play. Hopefully they fixed this problem with their full gun releases. But based on rumors of pulling off the shelf because of play makes me wonder...

 

jkpics - if that comment of "clone BS" was directed to me, i never referred to the WE as being a clone. But you did prove a point. Did the company WE DESIGN their gbb system? No. They used someone else's design and built something. More than likely under an agreement and i'm sure they did their own research and development to improve the system. But they never started from scratch like WA did. SP has been making gbb guns for a long time, but it just wasn't mass produced. And if in fact WE has been making molds for 20 years...why have I never heard of them till recently?

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Dear All,

 

This is Henry Wang of RA-TECH.

We just get the G&P and we can`t wait to share the video with you! =]

 

Test Video 1:

http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=WD4L_ZYy7Es&...feature=channel

It`s playing with original parts.

 

Video 2:

http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=SQMm9KtR7cU&...feature=channel

The second video, we install our parts into the G&P M4.

I hope you like our presentation!

 

Best regards,

 

Henry Wang

RA-TECH Customer Service

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True, ROF is insane. FPS is high. The recoil certainly looks very low. I get it, it's probably an uber-expensive high speed carrier.

 

I'd say I would much rather FPS be around 400, bolt weight only slightly less than stock, ROF around the same as stock, just no jams and better mags.

 

You also inserted the mag, released it, pulled the charging handle, and reinserted the mag. Why?

Edited by slu

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