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AEG Sniper Thread

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I guess there are always gonna be exceptions that test the rule.

 

TBH, I guess the G&G M14 might be seen in the same light as a VSR10.

It's a practical choice rather than an emotional one.

 

On the other hand, though, how many people who've bought PSG1s, SR25s or (god help them) M82s do so for practical reasons?

Most people buy the gun they want and then try and make it work in the role they require.

That kind of thinking (and there's nothing actually wrong with it IMO) is always gonna be expensive.

 

I'm on the fence.

Bolties (and SPRING bolties to be exact) are always gonna be the cheapest way to accurate long range shooting IMO but there's a lot to be said for the ability to take several shots in quick succession.

 

Conversely, I can see Trasher's point about cranking up the power of a "regular" AEG.

It's often far simpler just to get 10m closer to a target rather than do the work required (G&G M14 aside) to build a reliable high powered gun.

 

That read a little tongue in cheak :P But it's a valid point. People buy what they want. Most of the work done to accurize an AEG is not terribly expensive money wise, but it will cost you time wise. For instance, if you read through the thread that VindicareAssasin wrote that was posted earlier about his G&G M14 and the work he did to his, most of that stuff is fairly inexpensive. Choosing the proper base AEG and doing the minor tweaks is no different then doing the same with a bolt action. It may be a bit more expensive to go the AEG route, but it's also a more complex system. I'm sure I could point you to Airsoft Mechanics where any number of the folks over there could bring up their "DMR" (I say that loosely as the horde of full auto 50 RPS+ at 600 FPS folks seem to have finally arrived over there) projects and how little they cost.

 

To bring up another G&G gun, the GR25 that my buddy built was also fairly inexpensive and performs extremely well with very minor mods, and isnt what I'd consider overly expensive (400$). I guess when you compare that price tag to that of the various VSR's and clones thereof I can see your valid point about cheapest way to build an accurate long range airsoft gun.

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That read a little tongue in cheak :P But it's a valid point. People buy what they want. Most of the work done to accurize an AEG is not terribly expensive money wise, but it will cost you time wise.

Not supposed to be tongue in cheek exactly. It's just that I don't really have strong feelings one way or the other.

 

Gotta say, though, I'm not convinced about the cost of building a decent AEG.

I mean, I've stuck an M130 in a JG G36 and it was okayish. Sort of. Until the piston shredded. Then the gears, then the motor burned out.

 

Doing it "properly" in my experience usually requires a new barrel and hop-up parts, piston, piston head, nozzle, gears, bushes, motor and mosfet at the very least.

Then, if the gun was plastic to begin with, you're probably gonna want to bung a metal body on it to make it more rigid too.

Most people will also take the opportunity to "pimp" their gearbox at the same time by shoving in a fancy cylinder and head and spring guide.

 

All adds up.

 

Obviously, if you start with a gun that has decent gears or a good motor you're gonna save some cash but, going back to the whole "want" thing, that's gonna be more down to luck than planning.

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All adds up.

 

 

 

Not if your carefull in your choice, what with china soft guns and the like.

 

My SR25 cost I little more than £230 to put together and that includes the cost of the weapon, a spare mag and a 11v Lipo to power it. I could of reduced that further by making the piston spacer instead of buying it too.

 

To be fair its not quite as laser beam straight as my G&G M14, but its not far off wink.gif

 

Like I've said previously, and like Urpeacekeeper, I gravitated to using an AEG "sniper" rifle, from BAs, due to it suiting my team tactics, the sites we play at and thier fps limits, had things been different I'm sure I'd still have my guille and my BA would see a lot more daylight.

 

As it is, things aren't different, so I choose a weapon that suits my given situation, just like snipers in the real world do, I'm old enough to be more level headed and realistic about this choice rather than religiously stick to and preach the elitest 'BAs are best' horse feathers thats been reasently banded about here. rolleyes.gif

 

 

If your on the fence, be a man and get off it, what alot of the 'purest' BA users seem to think is "apparently" AEG = grunt mentality...... when in actual fact the play style of a DM is totaly different from that of a grunt and totaly different from that of a sniper, and is a skill, that to achieve correctly, has to be learned..... just like being an effective sniper has to, and for that matter an effective grunt.

 

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again...... I'd rather have a desent 350fps AEG DMR in my hand over a 400fps BA any day of the week, and if the fps is leveled...... even more so wink.gif

 

As for higher fps' I think in light of my experiences now I'd still go AEG, as the twodle that trasher came out with is just that.... twodle! With the appropriate engineering skills and time an AEG hop can be made to be just as efficient as any BA hop unit, after all they are based on exactly the same pricipal, an arm applying pressure to a rubber nub, its just the power delivery system that is different and even these can be brought to the same levels as any BA given the skills, time and a bit of patience.

 

And there lies the crux of the issue..... skills, time and patience..... most airsofters don't have the levels of either to turn out a desent AEG DMR, but they can do a pretty good job on a BA with a few spare parts and a spare evening wink.gif

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I see both side that people are discussing here and I see circumstances that either angle would have its advantages. In fairness we all talk on these forums about how styles and rules suit our own circumstances and gaming fields. In reality, the game, rules and equipment have to suit the field your game revolves around, otherwise put simply, the game will lack flow.

 

All gaming areas have boundaries and these boundaries will serve to contain the game, allowing players to group into firefights. Areas with much wider boundaries make for a much more unpredictable game forcing the player to think outside the box much more and opening the game up to those that can focus on strategy and accuracy. I have experienced this by gaming in all different shapes and sizes of woodlands with a host of different rules and game structures. So to get a better idea for the angle everyone is coming from perhaps it would be more enlightening to discuss: -

 

How many people attend an average game on your local site?

How big is your local site?

What is it made up of? (woodland, buildings, open fields, a % mix?)

How often do you play other sites?

Which side of the fence do you sit on?

 

It might help to develop a trend as opposed to poo pooing each others views outright?

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Dodge, you have a very good point and I've tried in earnest to get it across...... I've made the desicion to use an AEG because we, as a team, only ever play a site a maximum of 2 times a year, and thats if the site is any good!

 

You can best describe our team as airsoft nomads, as we don't have a "local" site as such, our localest (?) site is DV and our team has members from a 20 mile radius from that site. DV is the only site we play at more than twice a year, so is the site most familiar to us.

 

But we do play at sites from 'The Mall' and Ambush Chobham down to 'The Rock' and as far north as FFZ and UA, I need a weapon that I am familiar with and can use at every one of those sites and more in between.

 

That for me is an AEG at 350fps (with some exceptions) with better accuracy than your average noddy and his sooped up uber M4 can produce, and with no MEDs to worry about.

 

Its all very nice for those that go to the same site every fortnight to say 'I'd never use an AEG, it lacks skill and is for sprayers and prayers' when they are allowed to use 500fps and you know where every twig and stone is at that site from one week to the next. We as a team do not have that luxury.... by choice! And to be fair I couldn't think of anything more boring than starting a game to go trundling off to my usual hidey hole, to be shot by the usual suspect, in the usual manner.

 

It makes you complaicent.

 

And lets not forget I'm an Ex airsoft sniper, so I pray on that compliacency.

 

Me on the other hand, I have to implament all I learned in the 6 years or so I played as a sniper by having to find or create the nice little hidey hole, or make the best of a bad situation, while playing in the middle of a game, often under fire, on a site that I last played at between 8 to 12 months ago. And alot can change on a site in that space of time. That, I can assure you, does up your game a tad, and it also, to a degree, dictates the tools that you choose to use.

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How many people attend an average game on your local site?

How big is your local site?

What is it made up of? (woodland, buildings, open fields, a % mix?)

How often do you play other sites?

Which side of the fence do you sit on?

 

The average game at my most played site is usually 30-50 people (the average has been increasing, a lot since I joined, the least we've had so far this year is 35)

 

How Big is the most played site I play at? 9 Acres, mostly longer than it is wide.

 

That site consists of primarily woodland, and a mix of medium to high density. Very few open areas for long range shots, all open areas span the ravine in the center which is in the shape of a Y and those areas are excessively open down around the ground, but shooting across the ravine to a place higher is almost impossible because of the thick canopy.

 

As often as I can, provided it's a reasonable drive. Right now there are 4 primary fields I play at, the largest of which is 12 acres and is a large square. I've not played there yet, but will be soon, the smallest is 4 acres and the spawn zones can practically see each other. All four of the fields are wooded with the 4 acre field being a converted paintball field, so lots of open low ground, the rest are all heavily wooded, almost Vietnamesq in some places.

 

Which side of the fence? I'm assuming you mean, AEG Snipers are a + or a -? The entire role of the Sniper is a bit overplayed in my books, I try not to associate myself in the same group because where I'm at there is only one, maybe two people whom I'd call snipers, the other 50 or so players are all young childish Call of Duty kiddies who think their bolt action was forged in heaven by God himself. As a DMR platform, somewhere between Boltaction's max FPS and the full auto AEG's, thats where I sit. I will have my cake and eat it too thanks much :)

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are all young childish Call of Duty kiddies who think their bolt action was forged in heaven by God himself.

 

 

"Apparently" they are the future of the sport and should be encouraged, not ridiculed...... according to a thread I was reading the other day blink.gif ....... I fear for the sport.... I really do, after what I witnessed last weekend rolleyes.gif

 

 

And if I had a pound for every one I'd sent scuttling back to the safe zone...... wink.gif

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At least it's a pound for everyone and not a Euro :P:huh:

 

I feel the same pretty much, :) If only I had a $ or two for everytime I've sent nay-sayers or the CoD kiddies back to their spawn.

 

As to encouraging them... I'd much rather not.. encouraging someone to be a cheap *albartroth* is never a good idea, encouraging someone to buy a quality yet less expensive alternative is always a good thing :) Unfortunately that line has been blurred so much I spend more time trying to disuade people from making pisspoor decisions then they end up buying them anyway.

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I guess this highlights the point I am getting to in that the site you play on UrPeaceKeeper does not lend itself to bolt action rifles. When you have so many people playing on such a small site the low ROF and ammo capacity is an instant disadvantage. In this instance IF you are to make it a level playing field (which some sites do) to accommodate bolt action rifles the only way of doing this is to limit AEG capacity.

 

Bolt action gaming attracts a style of player that will pick angles at range relying on good camouflage and stalking maneuvers to hunt his pray. In the event of coming into contact with large numbers of opponents on larger sites their tactical advantage comes from falling back and attacking from other flanks and angles and applying strategy combined with movemnet. On a site of nine acres with an average of 5 players per acre (evenly spread) the bolt action player is stripped of his advantage and left with nothing other than a host of disadvantages to contend with.

 

I understand and agree with your view to the extent of the site that you game on but to suggest you view is right outright and people only challenge that view because they feel oppressed by AEG's superiority is frankly ridiculous.

 

I have gamed over the past decade in all shapes and sizes of woodlands using a whole range of platforms. The sites that best lend themselves to bolt action gaming are sites of 100 acres plus with very limited number of players (3 - 5 in total) or this is what we would class as utopia. We don't call this kind of sport Airsoft though we call it Hunteering because it incorporates much more than the ongoing firefights that standard airsoft sites offer. In Hunteering you have to hunt your prey over long periods of time (sometimes up to 5 days at a time) and it doesn't offer the instant gratification that the kind of gaming you describe offers. At the same time it offers much higher levels of challenge and much higher levels of sense of achievement because it draws in a wider skill range including navigation, survival skills and bushcraft. People that use AEG's in this kind of game are very often eaten alive by the stealth and cunning of the bolt action players because BA players use the expanse to their advantage. I'm not trying to paint a picture that suggests the sport I play is better than standardised airsoft sites or vice versa but I am trying to highlight the point that all over the world people play very different forms of the sport which favor different platforms, it doesn't mean to say either are outright better than others but it does mean that others require more skill than others to use effectively.

 

If you are going to bring different forms of the sport together onto one site it is important you structure the rules and equipment to make as balanced game as possible with the site that you are offering. Afterall it isn't the gun that makes the player and the winning side should be based on skill and performance as opposed to "who's got bestest gun". I sincerely believe that the arms race of spray and pray with hicaped AEG's has deskilled the sport because as Bushman rightly pointed out of you fire enough pellets at someone sooner or later you will get that hit. In that instance the skills of camouflage and concealment, assessing the game and applying movement and strategy are lost, or not practiced to their full potential. In effect they are replaced by firepower, not always to full extent but when you have the potential of an AEG to fall back on very often it will be used as opposed to other skills.

 

I am undoubtably speaking from personal experience and coming more from a Hunteering angle than an "Airsoft Sniper" angle. Although I wouldn't class myself as an "Airsoft Sniper" I would definitely class myself a bolt action player. That said, I do see circumstances that favor AEG's and its important that you select the right tool for job that will give you the better competitive advantage for the gaming field you are on.

 

Horses for courses at the end of the day.

 

Happy Hunting :)

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Dodge, you bring up a lot of interesting points, but those are the fields I play at the most. I've played at larger fields, significantly so. Somewhere in the range of 80 acres of Arizona Desert and Arizona Mountains. Neither fields lent themselves very well to the sniper role, the better being the mountains. Having said that, I've met a lot of people with actuall training in the art of sniping who simply couldn't make the bolt action advantage work out in their favor. They instead defaulted to what the role is actually supposed to be, recon, which is far more usefull. Unfortunately of the hundreds of so called snipers I've met, only a handfull, maybe 6 deserve the title. Of which, only two of those are where I play at normally back home in Nebraska.

 

Keep in mind I'm only talking about Mil-Sim oriented games here anyway, Midcaps are required, gear requirements, a higher level of play, not the a-typical weekend game in which everyone and their horse has everything from LPEGs to PTW's. These are folks that have spent an arm and a leg on a BA only to be disappointed that they where unable to participate in the majority of the day's events because they where set up in an area that simply was not of that much importance, and then complain to us that they didnt get any action when no one told them they couldn't go anywhere. That is the unfortunate mentality of players where I am at. And for every one player like the above, there is about a dozen or so of the 5n1p3r Kiddies living out their Call of Duty fantasy of getting 1337 h4x0r kills with their m4dz skillz!

 

I dont feel that I said anywhere that AEG snipers where outright supperior to Bolt Actions in any context other than in my area. I've advocated that since my first post in this thread that the leaning for or against Bolt Actions and/or Semi-Autos depends on the field you play at. I have defended that AEG's can be made very accurate, accurate enough to rival that of some bolt actions, to which I've been repeatedly told that I am wrong 50 fold and AEG's are inferrior. I have yet to have someone explain how a bolt action, operating at 400 FPS +/- 1 FPS is going to be more accurate than an AEG also operating at 400 FPS +/- 1 FPS assuming both have a hop up unit that is fully functional and stable. I have yet to hear a response to that other than "Well, AEG's have more moving parts and are therefor more inconsistent" We are talking about a physics principle that is applied the same regardless of the hop up unit, and it's not like all the voodoo hop up magic in Bolt Actions has not been ported over to an AEG at some point (H hops, V hop up rubbers, H hop up rubbers, so on and so forth).

 

There seems to be some form of snobbery around the entire subject which is wholey unneeded, on both sides of the discussion. Those who defend that BA's are the best, and those of us who see that AEG's also have the same capability.

 

And just because we can "spray" and pray doesnt mean we do. Just because I have a 315 HP Sports car doesnt mean I drive at light speed driving like a jerk off either. For some reason I get the feeling that because we use an AEG, we are instantly lesser because we can shoot quicker, when I think if you ask any serious AEG "Sniper" or DMR how they play quite the opposite is true. I am downright hardcore conservative when it comes to prosecuting targets, especially at range!

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That is the unfortunate mentality of players where I am at. And for every one player like the above, there is about a dozen or so of the 5n1p3r Kiddies living out their Call of Duty fantasy of getting 1337 h4x0r kills with their m4dz skillz!

 

I dont feel that I said anywhere that AEG snipers where outright supperior to Bolt Actions in any context other than in my area. I've advocated that since my first post in this thread that the leaning for or against Bolt Actions and/or Semi-Autos depends on the field you play at. I have defended that AEG's can be made very accurate, accurate enough to rival that of some bolt actions, to which I've been repeatedly told that I am wrong 50 fold and AEG's are inferrior. I have yet to have someone explain how a bolt action, operating at 400 FPS +/- 1 FPS is going to be more accurate than an AEG also operating at 400 FPS +/- 1 FPS assuming both have a hop up unit that is fully functional and stable. I have yet to hear a response to that other than "Well, AEG's have more moving parts and are therefor more inconsistent" We are talking about a physics principle that is applied the same regardless of the hop up unit, and it's not like all the voodoo hop up magic in Bolt Actions has not been ported over to an AEG at some point (H hops, V hop up rubbers, H hop up rubbers, so on and so forth).

 

There seems to be some form of snobbery around the entire subject which is wholey unneeded, on both sides of the discussion. Those who defend that BA's are the best, and those of us who see that AEG's also have the same capability.

 

And just because we can "spray" and pray doesnt mean we do. Just because I have a 315 HP Sports car doesnt mean I drive at light speed driving like a jerk off either. For some reason I get the feeling that because we use an AEG, we are instantly lesser because we can shoot quicker, when I think if you ask any serious AEG "Sniper" or DMR how they play quite the opposite is true. I am downright hardcore conservative when it comes to prosecuting targets, especially at range!

 

 

Jeez brother, I feel your pain wink.gif

 

And although we are both singing off the same sheet, I believe we will struggle to do any converting of the elitests out there, as they apparently know better rolleyes.gif

 

 

I have always had a BA, I always take it to games with me, and I always will. The fact of the matter is my AEG DMR often offers me the tactical advantage for my team in 95% of games, when the 5% presents its self I'll take the VSR.

 

I think the for my team bit often gets overlooked, be that my actual team or the side I happen to be playing on, as most BA users are either the fancyful 'lone wolf' caracters that are generaly only concerned with their own well fair and the tactical advantage they believe they are bringing to their side, or the CoD dreamers who just plain get in the way of every body.

 

 

I much rather go home knowing I'd done my best for my team/side, regardless of game style, and if an accurised AEG is what is required then that is what I'll use, should it happen to be a BA then that is what gets used.

 

 

Of coarse this is all game style related, as what works for the average sunday, balls to the wall games, wont work for a 3 day Mil-Sim.

 

 

I'm to long in the tooth to be elitest, and I don't have any time for those that spout its bad karma, I'm also more tacticaly aware than most due to the number of sites I play at during a year, and that tactical awarness it what governs my weapon choice, not what others think I should be using, pure and simple.

 

 

And just to add more substance to your last paragraphs argument...... Last year I sold my 4.2 litre RangeRover Trialer, it produced over 400 BHP at the wheels, weighed in excess of 2 tons and capable of doing in excess of 120 MPH, yet I used it to scare the bejeezus out of my passengers at slower than walking pace trying to post it through 2 cains barely the width of the truck apart on terrain it was near impossible to walk on.

 

Like you said, just cuz you got it don't mean you gota use it wink.gif

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UrPeaceKeeper the point I was referring to was this quote here: -

 

 

It sounds like you feel it is unfair that because you have a bolty, that people who have a semi auto at similiar FPS should be limited. What I think you where trying to get at, but never got to, was that the reason they should be limited is for safety because of the ability to have more ammo, and a higher ROF is more dangerous. My response to that is simply this... rubbish.

 

 

The point Bushman was making had nothing to do with safety, it is about game balance for the field that you play on. In the interest of competition, a balance should be achieved between each platform to make the game more skill based. This is no different to adding weights in horse racing or ensuring each and every car is of similar standard in F1 racing. Whilst you were rubbishing Bushman's comments in that post you agree with them in the previous post saying that midcaps are required which is a little contradicting...

 

Different bolt actions offer different advantages, I run a stock GSPEC which I still maintain is the quietest gun I have ever come across, so much so that you cannot hear the report within reasonable range. This is an instant advantage over many AEG's which are more audible due to there mechanical parts and offer a better chance of detection. I also run and upgraded TW LTR which can achieve ranges way over and above 400fps AEG's which is more beneficial in other circumstances, increased range can't be seen as anything other than an advantage however I would be instantly disadvantaged on a smaller site with so many people with a bolt action rifle if AEG's had unlimited ammo. There are sites however where we may only suggest the use of spring shotguns may create a better game for all players or AEG's or gas pistols because they best suit that woodland at that time of the year. Things like denser foliage in summer make for much lower average engagement distances and may render higher power rifles useless.

 

Although you may not have found ideal circumstances for a bolt action rifle it doesn't mean to say that they are the inferior platform. The trend of you posts suggest that that is your view especially when trained snipers didn't find them effective. Its wrong to suggest that AEG's have the same capability for the reasons I described above, bolt actions do have their advantages but they need the right circumstances to use them effectively. I don't think it is accurate that there is an inference or it has been stated that upgraded AEG's render bolt actions useless.

 

As I said, every platform has its ideal circumstances, you just have to select the right one for the occasion.

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UrPeaceKeeper the point I was referring to was this quote here: -

 

 

The point Bushman was making had nothing to do with safety, it is about game balance for the field that you play on. In the interest of competition, a balance should be achieved between each platform to make the game more skill based. This is no different to adding weights in horse racing or ensuring each and every car is of similar standard in F1 racing. Whilst you were rubbishing Bushman's comments in that post you agree with them in the previous post saying that midcaps are required which is a little contradicting...

 

 

No where did I say midcaps where required for me to play, I was referencing one other place I had played at in which midcaps where required to play at Ops. If I was arsed enough to keep my G&G M14 hicap I could use it instead. My examples are where you said a sniper has a more favorable playing advantage (larger fields with less player concentrations) or is more likely to be at (Mil-Sim games).

 

Last I checked, war is not a fair place. It is not fair for insurgents in Iraq/Afghanistan to use IEDs that we can't detect, or it's not fair for them to use vast underground tunnels to smuggle leaders, weapons, food, and other supplies between countries, it's not fair that the US chose to fight with a country who's army is about 9000x (and some other orders of magnitude) lower quality and less equiped, but thats war. War is not fair, it's not meant to be. Anyone who goes to war in a "fair" situation is either crazy or just plain stupid. I highly doubt that if Iraq and Afghanistan where 1st world countries with modern armies the US would have jumped in like we did ;) Being as Airsoft was founded on the principle of Suspension of disbelief of being in an actual combat situation, why would the battlefield need to be fair in order to play. You chose your tool just like I chose mine, limiting one or the other because something is unfair is rediculous, limiting it because it is unsafe is a whole different ball game. I believe Bushman was trying to get to the safety aspect, but never quite got there. Of course, if I'm wrong Bushman, correct me.

 

Different bolt actions offer different advantages, I run a stock GSPEC which I still maintain is the quietest gun I have ever come across, so much so that you cannot hear the report within reasonable range. This is an instant advantage over many AEG's which are more audible due to there mechanical parts and offer a better chance of detection. I also run and upgraded TW LTR which can achieve ranges way over and above 400fps AEG's which is more beneficial in other circumstances, increased range can't be seen as anything other than an advantage however I would be instantly disadvantaged on a smaller site with so many people with a bolt action rifle if AEG's had unlimited ammo. There are sites however where we may only suggest the use of spring shotguns may create a better game for all players or AEG's or gas pistols because they best suit that woodland at that time of the year. Things like denser foliage in summer make for much lower average engagement distances and may render higher power rifles useless.

 

Although you may not have found ideal circumstances for a bolt action rifle it doesn't mean to say that they are the inferior platform. The trend of you posts suggest that that is your view especially when trained snipers didn't find them effective. Its wrong to suggest that AEG's have the same capability for the reasons I described above, bolt actions do have their advantages but they need the right circumstances to use them effectively. I don't think it is accurate that there is an inference or it has been stated that upgraded AEG's render bolt actions useless.

 

As I said, every platform has its ideal circumstances, you just have to select the right one for the occasion.

 

I also never said that it was an inferrior platform, I did state that it's disadvantages at the fields I frequent do not outweigh the performance gains that are supposedly coming from the fact that it's a Bolt Action. Infact, I was enquiring about the opposite, why AEG's are seen as the inferrior platform, when at the end of the day, all parts being equal, the only difference is that a Bolt action is a manually cocked spring and an AEG is done automatically for us.

 

Stealth is subjective. If you can assure yourself that you are going to fire one shot and be 99% confident that you are going to hit someone, most players will not be able to find you anyway. I've been in cases where I've literally shot at someone about a dozen times and they just kept looking for me. Part of that is range (measured 82.6 yards at stock FPS levels for my Veteran) and the other part is simply knowing how to conceal oneself. Sure, having a quieter gun is an advantage, thats why I strive for a quieter AEG. When my M14 shoots it is reasonably quiet compared to the horde of armalite weilders. I also can shoot which makes it harder to find me simply because I dont shoot that much. I dont think any of us here believe that an AEG, bolt action, GBBR, whatever, makes the player, it's always down to the skill of the individual. I took a 280 FPS CYMA CM028 to an Op and managed to destroy players on the other team, simply because I know my own limitations, I know my rifles. Those are the same skills that you have, it's the same skills that just about every player will eventually get. Those same skills alow me to quite easily prosecute targets with both Bolt Actions and AEG's. If I had the option, in an overly ideal field (150 acers, 100 players, with varrying terrain of hills, woods, open areas, roads, etc), between a Bolt action that could shoot 400 feet and punch out man sized targets, and an AEG that could reach 260 and punch out a man sized target, I'd still use the AEG. The follow up shot is VERY important, and it fits my play style far better than a bolt action. It doesnt mean the Bolt Action is a bad choice or the AEG is supperior.

 

We can go on all day about this and neither of us are correct. As the saying goes, different strokes for different folks. Now I dont think the moderators of either Arnies, nor of the Sniping haven would have given us a thread about AEG snipers just so we can be told that we will never be the same player simply because we have a higher ROF. Thats the impression that I'm getting, and thats the reason I originally left this thread. This thread has always been about AEG "snipers" and thanks to the constant nay-saying, despite trying to have our voices heard, we are constantly told we are not the same caliber and wont achieve it simply because we use an AEG.

 

And simply because you brought the subject up, why exactly are AEG's inferrior to a bolt action? Lets take the beloved VSR-10, say it shoots 450 w/ .20's +/-2 FPS, and put it up against a high quality M14 that also shoots 450 w/ .20's +/- 2 FPS. Both have similiar hop up configurations (VSR's stock hop up rubber with V configuration) and the AEG using a Firefly, or an H nub, or a Concave spacer, what have you. What seperates the two? The hop up unit? An AUG, or a TM M14 hop up unit is incredibly stable. I dont think anyone here wants to argue that point. The only difference between these two guns from a physics standpoint is, and always has been, one is a bolt action and the other does the spring compression everytime I pull the trigger. You have the advantage of instant trigger response and relative quiet, I have the follow up shot. What then, makes the Bolt action a supperior platform to an AEG? Honestly, I can't think of one reason why they can't be made the same with similiar parts. Of course, now I'm in the real of hypothetical and we'll crack out the "Well my XXX gun shoots YYY Feet and can hit a Man sized target Z out of 10 times" and then the obvious retort of the other fashion, as happened previously.

 

And you said it, they all have their distinct advantages, I just see more to an AEG platform than a Bolt Action, even if it's a slight sacrifice in range... so sue me?

 

(Sorry if it sounds like I'm angry, I'm not, I'm just very tired, working midnights, and having been up for almost 20 hours straight working the most bleh position at my job really wears on me).

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(Sorry if it sounds like I'm angry, I'm not, I'm just very tired, working midnights, and having been up for almost 20 hours straight working the most bleh position at my job really wears on me).

 

 

No need for appologies chap, its exactly the way I feel, using the exact same arguments, and I've got a job that I love doing and don't come home grumpy tongue.gif

 

 

It looks like he's either reading my idol ramblings, and then getting you and me confused and then spouting off at you with the elitest BS, OR because we are both saying the exact same thing for the exact same reasons, he's had to pick on one of us, rather than divide his attentions, and it happened to be you, OR he has never read my guides to convince him otherwise wink.gif

 

 

As for VSRs being quiet, My SL36spacegun that I'm working on is currently nearly as quiet as my 350 fps VSR Gspec, to the point of making next to no difference, mostly because its running the exact same technology. Its also nearly as accurate over the same distance, and its still a work in progress, so there is still time smile.gif

 

The upside is I can fire 16 shots off and not have to lift my hand from the grip, or alter my fireing position, before a mag change, should I wish to do so tongue.gif

 

I get the impression that the nay-sayers read what we have to say, glaze over the bits that sound remotely sane and plausable, and then just pick up on the bits that sound like we are dissing BA users and proclaiming AEGs are better, dispite the manner we present it or how well we try to explain it using examples of personal experience rolleyes.gif

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I don't take it that your angry, it's good discussion. The reason I stopped by on this thread was because I felt that there should be some representation of BA guns to give a balanced view as many people draw information from this forum so it is healthy to give a balanced objective view.

 

Don't forget I am supporting the fact that AEG's have their role in the tactical style of gaming, I am also giving the plus and minus sides to BA rifles.

 

 

Last I checked, war is not a fair place. It is not fair for insurgents in Iraq/Afghanistan to use IEDs that we can't detect, or it's not fair for them to use vast underground tunnels to smuggle leaders, weapons, food, and other supplies between countries, it's not fair that the US chose to fight with a country who's army is about 9000x (and some other orders of magnitude) lower quality and less equiped, but thats war. War is not fair, it's not meant to be. Anyone who goes to war in a "fair" situation is either crazy or just plain stupid. I highly doubt that if Iraq and Afghanistan where 1st world countries with modern armies the US would have jumped in like we did ;) Being as Airsoft was founded on the principle of Suspension of disbelief of being in an actual combat situation, why would the battlefield need to be fair in order to play. You chose your tool just like I chose mine, limiting one or the other because something is unfair is rediculous, limiting it because it is unsafe is a whole different ball game. I believe Bushman was trying to get to the safety aspect, but never quite got there. Of course, if I'm wrong Bushman, correct me.

 

I whole heartedly agree with your sentiments about our involvement of the war but it is interesting you draw the comparison with war to re-enforce the point. If we were to directly compare BA rifles and AEG's with the real steel in the context of a gaming field the outcome would be very much as we have discussed in that the BA's would benefit from much longer ranges and the AEG's would be limited in ammo as we have discussed as they would be down to much lower mag capacities which would in turn bring a better balance to the game as has been suggested. If I'm totally honest i don't see the war comparison but I guess I am one of very few in the sport that doesn't. I see it more of an outdoor pursuit and shooting sport like bunny hunting only the bunnies are your equal and they fire back. All this is by the by however and each to their own for whatever anybody wants to draw from the experience.

 

 

I also never said that it was an inferrior platform, I did state that it's disadvantages at the fields I frequent do not outweigh the performance gains that are supposedly coming from the fact that it's a Bolt Action. Infact, I was enquiring about the opposite, why AEG's are seen as the inferrior platform, when at the end of the day, all parts being equal, the only difference is that a Bolt action is a manually cocked spring and an AEG is done automatically for us.

 

To clarify my personal view on this and one of my earlier posts did say that BA rifles we're the inferior platform for smaller, busier sites directly as a result of its low ROF. The point I was making was that their are instances where BA can be superior however it is much more site and condition sensitive. The fact does remain that you have to get it right first time with BA rifles which is a disadvantage and the chance of a follow up shot (and double tap) is a big advantage and nobody has offered a perspective that suggests otherwise. Personally I do find it more of a challenge and that is the attraction, but I enjoy gaming with AEG's as well. Again the reason I contributed to this thread is because there wasn't a lot of positive sides being offered for BA style of gaming and in public forums there should be a balance of representation. Its a shame that when a different side of the coin is offered its dismissed as:-

 

spouting off at you with the elitest BS, OR because we are both saying the exact same thing for the exact same reasons, he's had to pick on one of us, rather than divide his attentions, and it happened to be you, OR he has never read my guides to convince him otherwise wink.gif

 

I get the impression that the nay-sayers read what we have to say, glaze over the bits that sound remotely sane and plausable, and then just pick up on the bits that sound like we are dissing BA users and proclaiming AEGs are better, dispite the manner we present it or how well we try to explain it using examples of personal experience rolleyes.gif

 

For the total dismissal of the points raised I think its clear who the "nay sayer" is and its a shame that "he" couldn't contribute with something more constructive. Without going into specific technical upgrades and in simple terms to add something valuable to the thread without it deteriorating into mud flinging this is how I see it. I may be wrong on some of this information and I've no doubt I will be corrected if this is the case however: -

 

In the UK our legal AEG limit is 328fps plus 10% IF the site allows it and the legal bolt action limit is 500fps IF your site insurance will specifically allow it. As far as I understand it we are not allowed AEG's at 400FPS but I'm sure I will be corrected if I'm wrong. In this kind of difference in powers we are talking about 2 totally different beasts in platform that offer 2 totally different types of performance, differences in range are huge which can prove to be a big advantage if you can slot someone that can't even slot you back. However that said once someone is within MED your down to an AEG against a pistol so the tables are turned. I don't that there is anything controversial or elitist in that. Naturally some sites favor some platforms depending on terrain and volume of players. I genuinely don't think that comparing accuracy of man size targets etc etc will get us anyway because its often not objective information and leads to overzealous knit picking, its far better to discuss principles only.

 

I have mentioned I do run a stock GSPEC which is tougher again, in many ways I am agreeing with you and the odds are stacked against the bolt action player with this rifle. At the risk of repeating myself I like this rifle because it is so quiet, personally I have found it to be the quietest I've ever come across so it works or me. Its silence and accuracy out of the box is its advantage and yes the odds are stacked against you against AEG players but it still offers an advantage in that area. That is fact but I see it is good training for other skills. I also train and compete in martial arts and train in kicking with ankle weights on because it strengthens other areas for exactly the same reason. Thats not to say I'm being elitist, its because I want to be good at something if I am committing the time to take part.

 

 

We can go on all day about this and neither of us are correct. As the saying goes, different strokes for different folks. Now I dont think the moderators of either Arnies, nor of the Sniping haven would have given us a thread about AEG snipers just so we can be told that we will never be the same player simply because we have a higher ROF. Thats the impression that I'm getting, and thats the reason I originally left this thread. This thread has always been about AEG "snipers" and thanks to the constant nay-saying, despite trying to have our voices heard, we are constantly told we are not the same caliber and wont achieve it simply because we use an AEG.

 

Again I have never suggested that to be the case, I have suggested that it is tougher much of the time with a BA rifle and I would be keen to hear someone's reasoning who thinks otherwise (as opposed to calling me elitist and saying I'm spouting BS). My own experience is that it is tougher, Banjo's ratio of time that he uses a BA rifle suggests he finds it tougher, the fact that you sold you rifle suggests that you weren't achieving the levels you could with an AEG and sold it suggests that it is tougher, it doesn't mean to say the only answer that I'm an elitist b*****d and everyones taken it very personally. The proof is in the pudding on the scoreboard at the end of the day, people that take BA rifles out in the field have got a good chance of having their arses handed to them and sitting with a poor score at the end of the day and it happens, some days you don't perform. Thats the fact of the matter.

 

If nothing else its promoted good discussion...

 

Good hunting :)

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Maybe you missed this......

 

 

"Dodge, you have a very good point and I've tried in earnest to get it across...... I've made the desicion to use an AEG because we, as a team, only ever play a site a maximum of 2 times a year, and thats if the site is any good!

 

You can best describe our team as airsoft nomads, as we don't have a "local" site as such, our localest (?) site is DV and our team has members from a 20 mile radius from that site. DV is the only site we play at more than twice a year, so is the site most familiar to us.

 

But we do play at sites from 'The Mall' and Ambush Chobham down to 'The Rock' and as far north as FFZ and UA, I need a weapon that I am familiar with and can use at every one of those sites and more in between.

 

That for me is an AEG at 350fps (with some exceptions) with better accuracy than your average noddy and his sooped up uber M4 can produce, and with no MEDs to worry about.

 

Its all very nice for those that go to the same site every fortnight to say 'I'd never use an AEG, it lacks skill and is for sprayers and prayers' when they are allowed to use 500fps and you know where every twig and stone is at that site from one week to the next. We as a team do not have that luxury.... by choice! And to be fair I couldn't think of anything more boring than starting a game to go trundling off to my usual hidey hole, to be shot by the usual suspect, in the usual manner.

 

It makes you complaicent.

 

And lets not forget I'm an Ex airsoft sniper, so I pray on that compliacency.

 

Me on the other hand, I have to implament all I learned in the 6 years or so I played as a sniper by having to find or create the nice little hidey hole, or make the best of a bad situation, while playing in the middle of a game, often under fire, on a site that I last played at between 8 to 12 months ago. And alot can change on a site in that space of time. That, I can assure you, does up your game a tad, and it also, to a degree, dictates the tools that you choose to use."

 

 

 

In it I've fully explained why in the 9 odd years I've been playing, why I've come to the tactical decision to use an accurised AEG over a BA ( by the way I've not sold my VSR it still goes where ever I go, it was my guillie I sold on wink.gif ). I did find it harder as you mention, but I play for the team, not with the sole intention of making 'that' shot, which no one sees bar you, as mentioned here......

 

 

 

"I have always had a BA, I always take it to games with me, and I always will. The fact of the matter is my AEG DMR often offers me the tactical advantage for my team in 95% of games, when the 5% presents its self I'll take the VSR.

 

I think the for my team bit often gets overlooked, be that my actual team or the side I happen to be playing on, as most BA users are either the fancyful 'lone wolf' caracters that are generaly only concerned with their own well fair and the tactical advantage they believe they are bringing to their side, or the CoD dreamers who just plain get in the way of every body.

 

 

I much rather go home knowing I'd done my best for my team/side, regardless of game style, and if an accurised AEG is what is required then that is what I'll use, should it happen to be a BA then that is what gets used."

 

 

 

You'll notice the word team in there quite abit, and as most serious BA users might 'affiliate' with a team, most will not deploy alongside them, but as a force multiplyer. I should know I spent 6+ years doing just this and for those 6 + years I owned nothing but BA rifles.

 

I've now made a tactical decision to provide close support to my team, and as explained above, due to site limits and regulations an AEG DMR better suits my role and goal. So it has nothing to do with being more technical or tacticaly challenging, been there, done that, wearing the T shirt. It has everything to do with providing adaquate fire support to my team for them to achieve their mission objective.

 

A high powered weapon of any description would seriously restrict my ability to perform this task, so I use weapons that are at or below site limits so I don't have MEDs to worry about, but are of a higher accuracy than your average 'upgraded' M4, but with the advantage that I can carry more ammo than a BA, as I'm going to be placing myself in harms way alot more than any BA user, so why would I jepardise my survival rate by limiting my ammo quantities. And like we've already covered, just cuz I've got it doesn't for one minute mean I plan to be the one stood at the front of the stack waiting for the go signal, no I'll be the one stood further back covering the windows and other exits.

 

More often than not a serious BA user is not close enough to the action to make those kinds of differences to any large degree, the best he can hope for is to close down a flank and make it inaccessable to the opposition, and remain undetected. To exploit this fully you need 2 BA users that are of equal quality and skill, with a team leader who also can organise both these men, and all 3 of them need to have their poo in one sock, and have it wired up pretty tight to be effective.

 

This situation will hardly ever occur on the airsoft field of play, because it is basicaly a group of like minded individuals who all want to go about their own thing in their own way, this will cause, as I'm sure your aware, a major system failiure.

 

 

We are lucky in that our team, when it plays, are largely focused on the mission, each of us have our skills and we utilise those people in the rolls they are good at.

 

 

 

On another note...

 

To be fair to urpeacekeeper I can fully understand why he stayed away from the thread for so long, as by putting AEG and Sniper in the same title was only gong to cause agro.

 

 

AEG Designated Marksman would of been more suitable as this then limits confusion, as the roll of a Sniper and a DM are 2 totaly different skill sets, requiring 2 totaly different thought sets, and to a large extent totaly different tools, to achieve their chosen roll to the best of their abilities.

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We are all experienced players here; that experience, has been moulded by our individual games and encounters. We have arrived at conclusions, that we know are correct, through hindsight at the sites/events we have attended. However, we have all gamed in different environments, with differing rules and most importantly; different opponents. If I gamed in environments that are rich in the amount of "target kidz" you mentioned, I would probably use a semi auto too.

 

I was the guy who pinned this thread, as I feel it should not be overlooked and is not "impure" compared to Bolt Action, etc. It is just another tool in the toolbox.

 

I recall playing a 2 day Hardcore event, against a team of 10 AEG users (with unlimited pellets). I used a 310fps bolt action with no pistol or backup gun. Due to the fact the game is so long, you can use all the elements that give you the best chance with bolt actions. The most overlooked, being the total element of suprise (hard to achieve in shorter games). I got most of my tags through stalking (rather than stationary play) and anyone who has gamed with me, would know that is typical, of my MO. I managed 18 points, over the 2 days, with only 1 hit sustained. The opponents only managed 17 points between them. We won 31 to 17.

 

However, I took the same rig on a speedball tournament (4 man teams on well marshalled 150m x 100m arenas) and my team mates, basicly had to carry me. My main task became drawing fire, rather than being effective. I only managed 3 tags in 90 minutes total play, although 2 of those were to clinch the final :). The next year I took an AEG.

 

I think that you missed the point of my initial post, which was fully objective. Remember, I don't play against powerful semi auto's anymore, so don't need to criticise them for personal gain, or because they are my bane.

 

Your comparison to war, is not how I see Airsoft. Real bullets cannot be dodged, while they rip through cover/foliage and ignore light winds at under 100m. Commanders don't go into fair fights, of course, but this is a game/sport, not real, so needs good balance, most of the time.

 

 

 

Our old club ran into problems, with outcomes of games often being decided, on what the teams were (sounds elitist I know, but true). So we had a successfull handicap system, where brand new players gave their team an extra 3 points at the start of the match, 2 for someone on their second event, 1 for a regular player thereafter, or, 0 (ZERO) for a player who ended up shooting, more than he sustained, on a regular basis. The rating between 1 and ZERO was self regulating. This helped to keep teams competetive, in such hard gaming situations, they were not experienced or motivated enough to conquer (bad weather etc).

 

 

 

I come from the sport angle and as said, am an advocate of fair rules, that do not just favour the platform, that can put down the high velocity at decent ROF with unchecked supply of pellets or mag capacity. Good rules make a good game. I understand that Banjo is limited to 350fps period and chooses to limit capacity and load. If only there were more players like you, who have seen the light and had enough of the unending chatter of high capacity driven automatic.

 

In our games even semi auto pistols are limited to 1 magazine only (for 2 days). Otherwise, the semi auto pistols become far more practical and effective, in many situations and players would be tempted to just use them as a primary. In fact they can, if they choose to ditch their rifle, in favour of the MK23 prematch. As you say, putting down shots until the target is hit, is a great advantage and brings in the bacon.

 

Bolt actions of high power with longer MED's, mean they lose their ability in a large radius and yet only slightly extend their reach overall. To use a bolt action you have to frequent the more open areas and hope to engage players at longer ranges that suit your rifles ability to fire heavier pellets at higher velocities compared to any return shots you may recieve. Their inability to walk shots onto the target combined with low ROF and capacity also limits their dominance of the game. Powerful (not yours Banjo) semi automatics need limited mags or load to alter keep them in check (in my opinion). They can lay down accurate aimed shots to pretty much the same ranges as bolt actions, or, lay down suppression, or, even fired without the sights and walking shots onto the target.

 

 

As to elitism, our group may indeed come across that way. We do strive to be the best we can be, at our chosen niche and play the hardest games; so in that sense we are indeed Elitist. That is what is keeping us riveted, even after so long. All of our players will go that extra mile, in an effort to win, on the day. I guess that is also why we use Bolt Actions; they are simply harder to use tactically and that's what makes it more rewarding (in my experience) when you get one of your 22 shots to connect with your prey. You cannot just waltz round and think, ok, I may get ambushed; but if so I can dive down and with a hail of rapid mid wait pellets, turn the tables. Using a bolt action means that, unless you spot someone first, you don't have much chance of success in an exchange.

To be good with a Bolt Action, you need to be good at spotting and tactical thinking, being one step ahead all the time. With a powerful semi auto, you can use firepower to help you get through, if you fudge either of these factors.

 

URpeacekeeper: If you reread my posts, you will see I do mention safety a couple of times.

 

Good Hunting ;)

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You cannot just waltz round and think, ok, I may get ambushed; but if so I can dive down and with a hail of rapid mid wait pellets, turn the tables. Using a bolt action means that, unless you spot someone first, you don't have much chance of success in an exchange.

To be good with a Bolt Action, you need to be good at spotting and tactical thinking, being one step ahead all the time. With a powerful semi auto, you can use firepower to help you get through, if you fudge either of these factors.

 

 

 

 

I believe this is where the rolls and tactics used by a Sniper and a DM are confused by the uninitiated and CoDer who believe that by bolting on a scope makes you a 'sniperz' or 'Dominating Marksman'

 

 

As squad based marksmen we do have to use the spotting and tactical thinking, and even to a degree camoflage and field craft, just in a different way than a sniper does.

 

We still have to look for high value targets, find the best position to engage those targets, and find a means of getting to that position without becoming a casualty, the main difference is we have to do all this generaly while under direct incoming fire.

 

On longer, slower, more open sites I still carry my guillied boonie and 2 guillied scrim scarfs to act as gun wraps and shoulder shawl, in my belt kit, just incase I get the chance/job of stalking/holding. It doesn't happen very often, but I was a boy scout in my younger years wink.gif

 

A sniper on the other hand doesn't have to do the search/hide/engage thing under fire, unless the oposition are doing recon by fire of course, giving him time to work on his position and camo, which should in theory be his strong points (noddies running around with their black sooped up JG BAR and white trainers are removed from this theory) balancing the lack of fire power issue.

 

Going back to my rifles, its not just my ammo/mags I self restrict, all of my DMRs are locked to semi only, regardless of power limits.

 

So even my 1 joule DMR is locked off with no possibility to switch to fully auto, even though I technicaly could for those SHF moments. I do it for technical reasons as well as being anal wink.gif

 

 

To my mind its wrong to be claiming your a DM and then carry a full auto weapon 'because you can'. As we've discussed before about hi-caps de-skilling the game in general, this, to my mind is de-skilling the roll of being a DM

 

I see it to often, and I dont like it. That there maybe me being elitest to the general masses of AEG users

If you ask me thats up there with putting a box mag on an G36 and tuneing your M4 CQB to be 450fps and then locking it to semi only, anyone who does this should be band from playing airsoft and CoD/army of 2/...... for the rest of their natural born life or be doomed to playing paintball instead (oops, elitisum against paintballers tongue.gifwaggle.gif )

 

To my mind if you have managed to get yourself into a situation where you need to use full auto then you need to re-think your chosen roll.

 

I used to work on the same premiss when I played as a sniper and having to carry a pistol, to this day I have never needed to draw my pistol in anger, because I made sure I was always in a position where I wouldn't be using it. I only carried it because I had to to conform to site rules.

 

 

Now, in my chosen roll as a DM using a lower fps, I nolonger bother to even carry it, I should because I'm that much closer to the action, but I've never yet needed it so.....

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Alright, Loving my new(well, actually i'm it's third owner d:) TM m14. However, i am noticing a few problems. For some reason, whenever i fully load my mags, the first shot(s) always end up being extremely low, and some of them only go 20 ft before dropping! However, the rest are very accurate, and float on out to 50-60 yards(65 on a windless day). Sometimes this happens on a not fully loaded mag, and i have noticed some play in the magwell. Should i shim the mag well? Or is it the magazine itself? Also, i have noticed that after about 70 rds(when im target shooting) i suddenly start losing hop. I havent stripped the gun yet, but does this mean that i need to tighten the hop adjuster(or applicator)

 

Scar

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Doesn't sound like a magazine problem. Sounds alot like you've got a power issue to me. Maby down to the nozzle not setteling properly untill it's worked itself into a rhythm. I'm not sure there's anything you can tighten an m14 hop up, it should stay in place because of the handy little clicky design of it. I'd strip it down to the gearbox, and give everything a good clean then rebuild. Check out the nozzle and hop unit are all sitting right, rebuild and see if it's still doing it. I useually hate saying that sort of thing, it sounds like I don't know what the problem is. But it could be something very small, that you'd fix by rebuilding (such as a loose screw causing a wonkey sitting barrel) or it could be something obvious you'll notice strait away and be able to deal with.

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I'll try taking down the hopup unit and reconstructing it, giving that a thorough clean, and see if it helps. I am no Tech, and would like to stay away form opening the gearbox myself unless i have to. If the problems persist, i'll take it to one of the techs that i know(in our airsoft community we have some GOOD techs, but the charge $30 an hour, and thats before parts). Thanks for the advice,

 

Scar

 

 

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There is a lot of interesting stuff posted here, thanks guys.

 

Currently, I'm thinking about building an SR25 based DMR. Unfortunately I'm a poor-*albatross* student so I don't have a lot of money to put into. Time and effort is fine (as long as it doesn't require an amazing amount of skill) though. I'm intrigued by banjo's £230 SR25. What sort of parts would be 'must buys' and what sort of work 'should' be done it?

 

I was thinking of basing it on the JG SR25 (if I can get hold of the damn thing!) simply because it's cheap, and looks the dogs balls. Also, I will be keeping full auto (don't hurt me!) as I'll be wanting to run it at 350fps as per my local site rules for any full or semi auto AEG or otherwise.

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What sort of parts would be 'must buys' and what sort of work 'should' be done it?

 

 

 

 

See my guide linked in my sig, all you need is in there, and most is easy to achieve with a bit of patience. wink.gif

 

 

As for even mentioning full auto, go and stand in the corner, facing the wall, with your arms folded waggle.gif

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Thanks for the reply!

 

So basically what I'd be looking at in terms of parts would be a decent barrel, a H nub (unless I plan on copying your custom built one), a TM (or good) hop rubber, a spring guide with a bearing on it and possibly a AB MOSFET and maybe a high tourque motor? Plus all the little modifications, of course.

 

What barrel should I be looking for for an SR25? I don't want to break the bank here, so would changing to a cheaper after market barrel be worth it or should I just clean and polish the ###### out of the stock one? With it being a JG it should be a 6.03mm anyway I believe. Or was that 6.05mm?

 

Also, does anyone know if you can get real caps for SR25's? I've seen drums, highs and metal mids, but nothing else.

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Sorry to jump in this guys but my rifle is at a milestone in its dmr career. As i've gained experince i've come to find the longer barrel of my m16 to be just to cumbersome. I want more agility in my setup since i'm playing a true dmr and running with my squad. So I have my m16 dmr here, 520 fps with .2s. Swatting a mansized cardboard box at 250ft with .4s.(I used surveyors measuring tape). I want to lower the barrel length down to that of a carbine. My problem is how will it affect performance and should I switch to a ported cylinder.

 

If I do go carbine then, its an edgi 6.01 inner barrel at 363mm.

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