Jump to content

TSI Tavor Update


rws591

Recommended Posts

IDk obout all the work involved with gas systems. personaly id like beefey internals desigined to run a more powerfull and cheap gas like propane. :P yes i believe in propane and yes i use that in my 300 dollar glock. plus propane is like 2.86 us at walmart and 2 for 5 sales all the time this gun with a 400 fps system and internals for greengas and prpane would do it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 1k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

I was a milsim paintballer for 8 years before I saw the light and started airsoft; I chose a gas blow back rifle because the system is most similar to that which I used previously. One thing I DO NOT want to replicate in my airsoft experience is that which I hated from paintball - Being tethered to my gun.

 

Having a remote line from your HPA to your marker is convenient sure, but it is ANNOYING AS F***!! Every time I want to climb over a wall... every time I want to set my gun down and charge the enemy flag... every time I just want to have some freedom, that stupid little tether is there pulling you back. I custom made sling mounting points to my marker but even that only goes so far.

 

The gas in mag system is here, it's much more convenient (in the game) and given some time it will be better... I don't see why we need to regress in airsoft development here.

Link to post
Share on other sites
To answer some of the questions presented in this thread:

 

1. The GBB components will be available as an "add on" package for those who will purchase the AEG version first.

2. The estimated price will not exceed $600, and will likely be less.

3. The MARS copy will be in the low $100 range.

4. We are leaning toward the "gas in the gun and not mag" concept, providing we can come with a solution that can keep the rifle skirmishable

 

 

WOW IS THERE A GBB VERSION ONLY ?

I want it to be better then the Westen Arms M4A1!!!!!!!!!!!

Link to post
Share on other sites
If an LRB equipped weapon doesn't impress you, I'm not sure what will.

 

Nope. Still not impressed. I have yet to see one with a flat trajectory that can match the accuracy of a good tightbore and good hopup.

 

I wouldn't expect TSI to come up with their own GBB system. They probably won't want to go through the process of licensing another system; it will most likely be a housing for an already existing system. And if it's internal gas, you can make it external with the same widgets and doodads you currently use. Look at the Tanaka rifles, they took gas in mag and made them external, you can do the same with an internal supply.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm - it appears the cat is out of the bag now. I didn't think Guy wanted us to share that update publicly, so I didn't post it last night.

 

Anyways - the GBB option certainly sounds intriguing....

 

No one has said anything about the MadBull CO2-powered gearbox yet. What about that type of option?

 

I'm not keen on the idea of an extern, tethered HPA or Green Gas tank - nor am I fond of the gas-in-mag options either (makes the mags much heavier, and it means you need to keep two types of mags on hand).

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm amazed people want externally fed gas rifles, there is a reason the market is flooded with AEGs, external gas failed and died when AEGs hit the market (I remember those days, bye crappy rig hello batteries-freedom, GO TM !) it's the same with the "new" GBB rifles, what is the point in revisiting failed products, very niche, very gucci, very short life span for sales,

Everything happens in cycles, be it fashion/music/airsoft, except in airsoft AEGs will always be #1 as there is only ways to improve them, no need to redo a working concept and no revisiting the older gear styles that were redone/improved upon and forgotten, so stock up on gas/external tanks and next years paperweights classic gas rifles :D

 

And roll on release of this Tavor, albeit price will be the decider between Ares and TSI for a lot of us, I'll wait and see how each performs before investing :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Let the battle of the Tavors begin.

It looks like the price is going to be the same for both the ARES and the TSI one... ~$500USD. If that's the case, and the TSI one comes with the MARS sight, I'll have the TSI one.

Link to post
Share on other sites
The gas in mag system is here, it's much more convenient (in the game) and given some time it will be better... I don't see why we need to regress in airsoft development here.

Mini-QDs aren't an option for you?

I'm amazed people want externally fed gas rifles

Why? For every person complaining about the hose, there is a person who has tried it and realized it isn't a problem. Less of a problem than the myriad of other things that can get caught on stuff, tether them like a boat anchor, etc. that people try to say a gas rig will.

Nope. Still not impressed. I have yet to see one with a flat trajectory that can match the accuracy of a good tightbore and good hopup.

Fair enough. That is true of a moving barrel versus TM-style AEG hop. Enjoy that accuracy when the LRB-equipped rifle is outranging you by 20+ yards conservatively and able to score hits while the AEG cannot since the LRB accuracy is still good enough to hit man-sized targets easily.

except in airsoft AEGs will always be #1 as there is only ways to improve them

Indeed, since the average person can pick them up and use them with no learning curve. And AEGs simply can't do what gas guns can do in terms of realism and range. Gas guns have been simply held back by ######-poor hop performance and non-friendly plug'n'play that AEGs have. That is changing, but isn't mainstream obviously. That doesn't mean AEGs are going anywhere. That doesn't mean gas guns should either as they fit different desires and traits for other kinds of users. There is room for both in the market, and there are pros and cons to each.....coming from an user who has used both extensively and owns/owned a great many of both.

Link to post
Share on other sites

some people seem to have forgotten that this gun is primarily an AEG. if you dont want to teather yourself to your rifle, stick with it being an AEG.

 

i dont see why you cant just use a quick detach hose all us classic users use. if you want to dump your rifle, just flick off the hose and put the damned thing down.

 

gas guns ruled the roost for 20 years and have a strong cult fallowing. gas in gun/mag systems will never work as well as an external rig and theres no reason that technology should die.

 

if you dont want an externally powered gun and want more performance out of the gun than gas in mag/gun systems can give, dont convert the AEG to a GBB.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3.Quick release gearbox design - the gearbox can be pulled out with the release of 2 pins and utilizing the bolt release, a 15 sec cycle

 

5.This is a new one...a GBB version to follow shortly, with 100% compatibility with the AEG. Pull the gearbox out, change a few simple parts, and you can switch between the AEG and GBB!

 

I think all you guys debating about in-the-mag gas vs. external rigs are overlooking these two key points above. Which sounds to me like they're not pursuing either of those options. I think it sounds more like the MadBull CO2 gearbox. Also, from what I know (and what I'm guessing) about these guys - based on having met them and on having one of their Galil replicas (see link below) - I think they're going after the professional training weapon market too.

 

http://strikehold.wordpress.com/2008/10/06...ries-galil-sar/

Link to post
Share on other sites
Having a remote line from your HPA to your marker is convenient sure, but it is ANNOYING AS F***!! Every time I want to climb over a wall... every time I want to set my gun down and charge the enemy flag... every time I just want to have some freedom, that stupid little tether is there pulling you back. I custom made sling mounting points to my marker but even that only goes so far.

 

Rig-Complete.jpg

 

Flick n' go.

 

The gas in mag system is here, it's much more convenient (in the game) and given some time it will be better... I don't see why we need to regress in airsoft development here.

 

G-I-M severely limits ammunition capacities. While GIM is a good option for hardcore milsimmers, it is a severe handicap for the average mid or hicap using skirmisher, as well as being quite costly.

 

Would anyone mind explaining why exactly the internal systems failed so badly? I know Walther started to go into the subject but i dont think he quite went over the main issues, as the one he brought up does seem that major.

 

The liquid gas causing incredible cooldown, limited capacities making it hard to get through a skirmish on a charge. Etc etc.

 

Nope. Still not impressed. I have yet to see one with a flat trajectory that can match the accuracy of a good tightbore and good hopup.

 

You've never shot my M60, then. ;)

 

I think that an internal gas tank is a reasonable idea as you could easily rig that to an external line, its unlikely to be gas in mag as this would almost certainly need a different hop-up unit

 

However, when you rig a large internal tank to an external line, there is massive amounts of gas wasted in a huge blast after disconnecting.

 

some people seem to have forgotten that this gun is primarily an AEG. if you dont want to teather yourself to your rifle, stick with it being an AEG.

 

i dont see why you cant just use a quick detach hose all us classic users use. if you want to dump your rifle, just flick off the hose and put the damned thing down.

 

gas guns ruled the roost for 20 years and have a strong cult fallowing. gas in gun/mag systems will never work as well as an external rig and theres no reason that technology should die.

 

if you dont want an externally powered gun and want more performance out of the gun than gas in mag/gun systems can give, dont convert the AEG to a GBB.

 

Agreed. The performance attainable from using AEG mags/hopup and external air is simply unmatched by GIM or GIG setups.

Link to post
Share on other sites
G-I-M severely limits ammunition capacities. While GIM is a good option for hardcore milsimmers, it is a severe handicap for the average mid or hicap using skirmisher, as well as being quite costly.

 

The liquid gas causing incredible cooldown, limited capacities making it hard to get through a skirmish on a charge. Etc etc.

 

 

Also, GIM is useless most of the year if you live in Norther Europe or someplace similar, while external regulated rigs, even on CO2 will work OK, not perfect, but OK down to 5C. With HPA they'll work well even when AEG-gearboxes start cracking and batteries slow down.

Link to post
Share on other sites
you think TSI is too incompetent to develop a V3 Co2 gearbox?

 

No, but do you remember how long it took Madbull to make a worthless CO2 mechbox? How long do you think it will take to design a worthwhile one from the ground up? I don't think TSI is going to put another few years into designing one, no point.

 

You've never shot my M60, then. ;)

Do you have a magical LRB that is widely different from all the other LRB's manufactured in the past decade?

 

I'm sure your M60 is different from the other completely decked out Asahi MG's with LRB's I've shot, or the Escorts. Bring it to me to shoot and you'll see me unimpressed live. You're so fixated on this idea that a classic BV system with an LRB is unconditionally orgasmic. I'm happy that you enjoy your toys so much. I really appreciate the cult following that classic airsoft has because the community keeps getting new ideas from old ones. But seriously, you're like a used car salesman pushing the rust proofing. Your devotion is coming off quite extreme.

 

However, when you rig a large internal tank to an external line, there is massive amounts of gas wasted in a huge blast after disconnecting.

Why can't your remove the internal tank and replace it with a line?

 

 

Agreed. The performance attainable from using AEG mags/hopup and external air is simply unmatched by GIM or GIG setups.

Pure performance, no question, it's the best performing gas option.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Do you have a magical LRB that is widely different from all the other LRB's manufactured in the past decade?

 

I'm sure your M60 is different from the other completely decked out Asahi MG's with LRB's I've shot, or the Escorts. Bring it to me to shoot and you'll see me unimpressed live. You're so fixated on this idea that a classic BV system with an LRB is unconditionally orgasmic. I'm happy that you enjoy your toys so much. I really appreciate the cult following that classic airsoft has because the community keeps getting new ideas from old ones. But seriously, you're like a used car salesman pushing the rust proofing. Your devotion is coming off quite extreme.

 

Yes, my LRB is actually equipped with a magical gnome that lives in the breech, whom blesses each BB before it is fired, giving it a tracking ability and allowing it to hit enemies over nine thousand yards away.

 

I'm not sure what LRB's you've been shooting, maybe old brass ones that have gotten worn out. From my experience using steel LRB's, I get straight trajectory using ,28's for 250-275ft, and easily manage kills at distances over 250ft, firing full auto, without arcing or compensating, when it chronoed at 330FPS with a ,2. Getting great distances like that without a ridiculous FPS is pleasing to me.

 

I've used AEG's and classics extensively. I have been playing for years, and I have yet to find a better all around weapon than my M60. All I care about is performance, and what I have found in classics is performance, pure.

 

To be honest, I'm not pushing classics on anyone. In fact, the less people using them, the easier they are for me to get. So please, do not ever consider buying one.

 

Also, FYI, stock Escorts are NOT high performance weapons. They are more for the "razzle dazzle" appeal.

 

Sorry for the off topic rant, mods. I won't continue it further. ThaFlash, I invite you to PM me.

 

But, on topic. I am very curious as to what they would do for an internal gas setup. TSI armouries doesn't seem like the type to let something by that didn't work properly. Could it be possible that they have a super gas-efficient system up their sleeves?

 

Also, the use of new Tokyo Marui M4 AEG magazines would be great! A working bolt catch in both AEG and GBB configurations would be fantastic.

Link to post
Share on other sites

An LRB naturally arcs the BB. However slight you may find it, or however effective you find it; good for you. I found that it decreased consistency.

 

Most of the classics I've shot were not stock, especially the Escorts since they were usually running high PSI and needed a lot of parts to run reliably. The most uninspiring experience for me was shooting the Escort 60's; not stock but customized as demonstration pieces to show what the system is capable of doing. Most of the LRB's I've experienced were brand new from people with the "check out my new upgrade" giddiness. Trust me, if it more than 3 years old, and it's not a one-of-a-kind from SoCal, I've probably experienced it.

 

Back on topic:

The Tavor will likely be utilizing as much existing parts as possible. And since they want GIG, you can just remove the internal tank and replace it with a hose to your external rig. Keep the AEG mags and hopup. You have everything that you want no?

Link to post
Share on other sites

The idea of a Tavor with WA/WE style GIM system makes me tight in the pants. Then again... carrying heavy mags can be kind of a downer (and back ache). Regardless, if TSI has chosen to announce this bit of info, chances are they're already made the choice as to how exactly they're planning on doing it. From what I recall, most of the designs are pretty much nailed down so I would hazard a guess that the gas system has already been designed and accounted for in their molds if it's going to be a straight forward drop in design. I'm going to reserve all judgment until they give us more info to chew on.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay...so don't tear me apart on this one.

A friend and I are having a discussion.

I feel this will be better that a PTW. Standard AEG mags = win.

15 second swap out gearbox...That's just awesome. Im going to guess that you can get another gearboxe for the price of a cylinder on a ptw.

To me, this is an all in one rifle with the ability to go CQB, field, and sniper, and everywhere in between with different gearboxes.

What do you guys think about this? Better than a PTW?

 

TSI: When will pre-orders start? I want to pay for mine now :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and the use of session cookies.