Uber Knifing!

[Furey]

Good drills! patience and sneakyness ftw. I dont see why people have an issue with this tactic, if the enemy had cleared out their buildings properly and watched their rear, that couldnt have happened.

 

site looks cool btw. looks like a temporary housing estate or something.

[greg]

A knife is a tool, not a weapon. Knives are useful at the type of site we play on. Cutting through vegetation (yes, it really is that thick), climbing, cutting rope or string, prepping wires for 'demolition' devices, cutting tape. Also useful for cleaning, as a screwdriver, as a lever. Leaving it in the safe zone isn't practical when its a 20-40 minute walk each way and the only break is an hour for lunch mid day.

 

Pretty much everything you can do with an army knife or a leatherman, except without the fiddlyness, the fact it blunts easily or the fact that it can fold back on your fingers. I've cut myself more times with folding knives than with my fixed knives. Its also not illegal to carry any kind of knife if you have good reason, and being off public property makes it a null issue anyway.

 

Ontop of that, the same people that normally question me about carrying a knife are the same ones that later ask to borrow it when they find something that requires a sharp point.

Cobblers.

 

I understand where you are coming from, but open your mind.

 

'Vegetation' is actually better cut with secateurs or a pruning saw, ask any gardener. Felco is the word. Climbing rope costs a fortune & except in films or a life threatening emergency, is never cut in the field. I cut mine to size with a hot wire, like all the climbers I know . A small pair of scissors is a safer & more effective way to cut string or tape. Prepping Demolition? Oh come on? Wire cutters/strippers,,,,,,,,,,definately 'less fiddly' than a Ka-bar. Electricians all carry knives don't they . Screwdrivers make much better screw drivers than knives,,,,,,,,,,,,the clue is in the name. Wood makes a better leaver, ask the Egyptians. Woods are full of wood,,,,,,the clue's in...............

 

Before you say that your fixed blade is more convenient than the tool kit I mention, take a proper look at the range of 'tools' that Letherman etc. offer, which fold smaller, are lighter, more appropriate to the tasks,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,& 'lock'. So, nice & kind to the inept user. They also use materials appropriate to each tool, so really decent up to date metals for cutting blades, that lock, are legal & hold an edge for ages. Even allen keys & every screwdriver head, including torx, so you could strip your gun. We ain't talking 1980's swiss army knives here.

 

Read the law about prohibited articles, it is quite specific & includes transportation. EG, a chef may get away with transporting his personal set of Globals to work, if he has no alternative. But a military style fighting knife (or any, fixed, locking, or other blade with a cutting edge over 2.75" long) for 'cutting string your honor' will not stand up in court: 'Did your defendant not think a pair of scissors would do?' Will be the answer before they send you on an awareness course 'cos the prison's full, with a criminal record that will make a mainstream job impossible. Blue chip employers actually check these days, so fibbing wont work.

 

Knives are really in the press at the moment, I'm only trying to help you on two levels:

 

1, The law is clear. 'I have a prohibited article in the boot of my car because I was going to a blah-blah,' will get you in the poo if the officer decides he don't like you. Yes, you may well get away with it, but why run the risk?

 

2, There are more efficient tools available for the tasks you mention.

 

Look specifically at the tasks you describe, you will find industrial solutions, that work much better than,,,,,,'a knife'

 

Yes, a knife will do, but you, can actually do better than a knife. Professionals go equipped, only Mcguiver & Robinson Caruso survived with 'a knife'.

 

At the end of the day I respect your oppinion & choice, but there are better choices, which I would respect more. It's up to you.

 

 

Greg.

 

PS, Letherman's folding pruning shears are a must for any sniper. One handed, silent trimming of firing holes? You can't do that with 'a knife'.

[greg]

The fact is, you cant, at a glance and especially not if its wrapped around your neck, tell the difference between a blacked steel blade and a black rubber blade. If the rules say a touch or being within two feet is sufficient then theres no need to get all fancy and actually stab people and thats what I have a problem with.

 

I don't feel threatened by rubber knives. I feel threatened by an ambiguous object being used to threaten me physically, no matter how innocent your intentions may be.

Totally agree , the rules of any sort of bang/contact/knife kills should be discussed & made clear during the safety briefing before the start of play. That way there can be no misunderstandings.

 

 

Greg.

[Voodoo1]

Our rules on knife kills are straight forward. The knife (or rubber chicken, or dildo) must be flexible/rubberised and therefore incapable of stabbing/cutting anyone for real. The kill is done simply with a tap to the shoulder - no dramatics. Simple and safe.

 

We don't have a 'bang' rule. If a player is close enough and has the advantage i.e. a weapon to the back of the head, they can ask for a surrender. This is done purely for gentlemanly sportmanship, so you have an option other than putting a point blank shot into someone. The recipient doesn't have to surrender - accepting their fate if they get shot in the process.

[The Waco Kid]

You are very narrow in your view.

 

If there is one thing that I've learned is that everything in airsoft is optional!

Guns, terrain, groups, and rules.... Everything!

especially rules... can change games and tactics so much.

I've play in several countries and hundreds if not thousands of games. and as far as i know... there's no International rule book.

and generally... if its not fun... you don't do it.

 

So if you don't see how much of a rush it is to... sneak up on someone and tapping then on the shoulder and saying gently... "i just gutted you like a pig"

more so than... walking up to 3 metres and say "bang.. dude your dead "

More so than... shooting them in the back at 10m.

then you just go and enjoy your narrow game.

 

the first of the 3 kill before the clip was recorded... was a girl.

and I'm sure she appreciates me not shooting her in the back at 10m.

 

I pose this question to you...

You are walking down the side of a house... you get to the corner and slowly peer around... and theres 15 opfors standing around... all with there backs to you... your got a Masada (semi only) and a knife... what would you do?

 

FC

 

 

Yes I've been sneaky and made some tag kills. I think it's only sporting that it someone has got got within arms reach without you noticing then you should call yourself out. Equalling if you go running in and the opposition has you cold but doesn't fire because they feel it's unsafe to do so then the honourable thing to do is put you're hand up.

 

The reason I stated my opinion was that I have seen the knife kills etc heavily abused to the point of ridiculousness.

 

*suitcase*) One player running into a room of full of people and shouting "bang, bang, bang you're all dead".

 

Good) If however he was holding an un-lit pyro or simulated grenade and called himself out to I say that's fair if it's part of the scenario.

 

Also you do get people doing it who use the "un-tactical bimble" maneuver. ie. walk about looking uninvolved with the game but not quite having their hand up either. Suddenly springing into life and bang killing people they walk past. On most walk-on days there are a fair few players on each side with similar kit and camo which makes IFF a little uncertain. An most players will not engage someone who doesn't appear involved in the game as quite often dead players will not have there hand up clearly all the time.

[greg]

I pose this question to you...

You are walking down the side of a house... you get to the corner and slowly peer around... and theres 15 opfors standing around... all with there backs to you... your got a Masada (semi only) and a knife... what would you do?

 

FC

Run.

 

 

Greg.

[Adiventure]

*Snip* Long, well thought out post *Snip*

 

So I need a leatherman and my combat knife?

[Punkypink]

I just reckon anyone who feels threatened by a rubber ambiguous object and not by realistic imitation firearms is either loco, or really playing the wrong game. Heck its an airsoft game, the guns are fake...

 

The thing u lot should REALLY be worried about is that the rubber thing that bloke's holding is not a rubber knife but more phallic shaped. Better check to see if its a balaclava or a gimp mask he's actually wearing mate.

[greg]

So I need a leatherman and my combat knife?

Wake up!

 

You need the appropriate tools to do a job well.

 

Sure you can dig a fox hole with enough time & a ka-bar, but a folding shovel will make it hapen a lot quicker. You wont be as tired & you wont be left with blisters on your hands & a blunt knife.

 

Carry the 'combat knife' into a situation that needs it. Er,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,combat? But not airsoft.

 

 

Greg.

[bjorn]

I have been keeping my eye on this thread from the start.

 

Firstly - congratz to the starter or the thread. You cant ask for better luck then that.

 

Secondly - about knife kills. If a player has enough skills (or if the other players hasnt got enough skills) then it is only fair that it is enough from a tap on the shoulder e.g. with hand, rubber knife etc is sufficient to "kill" him and he or she should not make any noises either.

 

I mean this is airsoft - usually a hit on the toe, boot, finger, or even your gear counts as an immediate kill, so why should not a tap by your enemy on your shoulder not count? Even more so since we play a lot of cqb situations and you dont play as a team (dont watch your corner e.g.) then you should be punished by a player who literally sneaks up on you without anybody noticing.

 

Just my 0.2.

 

B.

[Punkypink]

Exactly. I've been just holding the "a hit to the finger counts, so why do knife kills have to be realistically noisy?" comment in. God only knows how some realism fanatics will take offence to that, but well now that the obvious has been pointed out, theres no need to hold back now. All those reasons against knife kills and staying quiet after being knifekilled because its not realistic is probably the worst logic and reasoning going around on this thread, given that if it's realism we're talking about, a hit to the fingers don't kill, and if you're actually shot, you don't respawn like a computer game. So knife kills are supposed to be noisy? Yea and dead men don't get up and walk off the field with a hand up. I seriously wonder how many here are anti-knifekills really because it's something they can't do.

[Mat]

*Hands Punkypink a flame proof suit*

 

Brace yourself

[Punkypink]

Bring them on. As if weak excuses have ever been the best way of winning debates based on logic and reasoning. I seriously wonder how some people can justify it with realism when they have no complaints about the unrealistic nature of how airsoft hits are generally scored. Thats just sheer double standards isn't it?

 

So ok, some people say they are uncomfortable about someone coming at them with a rubber knife. And yet if you are playing a game where u could potentially run into someone confronting you with at point blank with a RIF, which is really no better is it? If you're skirmishing what sort of mentality would one have that would leave a player fully expecting to meet another player with a RIF and not react badly to it, but yet. If the gun morphed into a piece of rubber that looked like a knife, would suddenly turn them into Chuck Norris? That sort of logic is seriously questionable. Any war vet who goes auto killing mode when faced with a rubber knife in an airsoft game, I HIGHLY doubt could skirmish without psychosis-inducing flashbacks.

 

Or how about the "people here carry knives into the skirmish field" Unless you actually know nobody at the site and have good reason to suspect that they're all psychos... why would u have reason to think that anyone would come at u with a real knife in a game?! Even the people I play with know what a complete nutter I am, and they don't expect me to actually come at them with an actual knife. So honestly, how can that sort of justification been seen as anything other than "flimsy at best"?

[Mat]

/me agrees.

[greg]

See?

 

Knife kills.

 

Always touchy.

 

Personally I love 'em. Giving & receiving. I'm as proud of the bloke who gets one on me, as I am for getting one in myself.

 

I've even taken the time to whisper congratulations to my 'killer', before silently sloping off to the safe zone, to brag about how I just got done.

 

To me, it enhances the experience.

 

As long as terms & conditions are explained before the start of play, I love it.

 

If you don't like it or are likely to spasm or beat the ###### out of someone over it, then don't play on sites where they are allowed.

 

Easy.

 

 

Greg.

[L4byr1nth]

I think they're a bit silly, to be honest.

 

I can understand why people want them, but it's only going to end badly. Give 'em an inch, they take a mile.

 

First you have people tapping each other with them. That's fine, but why can't you do that with the end of a gun, or a finger? Then, before long, getting too into the spirit and being too rough with them/other players (who are bound to take offense, as we're playing the game to shoot one another).

 

As for people throwing them (!), what the heck is the point of that in a game solely played with ranged weapons? And don't give me that "It's my backup" bull - every player worth his salt has a pistol of some description as well as a primary.

 

I guess if you can get everyone on the field to agree, then it's fine. But if not, you're just taking liberties with the Bang kill rules, and it'll annoy people.

 

To be fair, I play woodland, so I don't often encounter stuff like that. Although I've had my fair share of Bang kills, I've never felt the need to repeatedly jab someone in the ribs with a heavy rubber knife. Maybe in Urban, you get more opportunities for this, or the circumstances are different.

 

Ben.

[greg]

1, I think they're a bit silly, to be honest.

 

2, I can understand why people want them,

 

3, Maybe in Urban, you get more opportunities for this, or the circumstances are different.

 

Ben.

1, With out a doubt. &

 

2, That's why they are so good.

 

3, In urban you have more chances to 'make' these opportunities.

 

Having said that, there have been times when I've lost my spotter/protection, & enemy have managed to 'bang' me in the bushes, (oo-er) which is just the same as a good daggering.

 

Oh-boy.

 

 

Greg.

[L4byr1nth]

Greg: Banged in the bushes on more than one occasion.

 

Ben.

[greg]

Greg: Banged in the bushes on more than one occasion.

 

Ben.

In between times I found time to do some airsoft.

 

 

Greg.

[Dom S]

although, your argument of why not use the end of your gun or a finger, using that argument, WHY not a rubber knife? no more dangerous than a finger, and normally makes it more entertaining for both players involved. If the victim doesnt like the knife, jab em with the barrell of ure gun instead. Sure theyll like that ALOT less.

 

meh

[jagillham]

As far as I knew, airsoft was a non contact sport (except pellets). So any kind of poking with a knife, plastic or otherwise is not on really.

[L4byr1nth]

although, your argument of why not use the end of your gun or a finger, using that argument, WHY not a rubber knife? no more dangerous than a finger, and normally makes it more entertaining for both players involved. If the victim doesnt like the knife, jab em with the barrell of ure gun instead. Sure theyll like that ALOT less.

 

meh

 

Because, in plain speak, we don't turn up to the skirmish field to get stabbed with plastic knives and/or have them thrown at us.

 

You can't throw a finger, you wouldn't throw a gun - you'd shoot it.

 

If you're that close, you don't need the knife, because it's still just a bang kill. Use a finger.

 

Ben.

[Kyrian_Zenda]

Note to self: Ben enjoys being fingered in the woods

 

[L4byr1nth]

Never heard it called that before...

 

 

Ben.

[Dope on a Rope]

Yes, a knife will do, but you, can actually do better than a knife. Professionals go equipped, only Mcguiver & Robinson Caruso survived with 'a knife'.

 

Come on one of my bushcraft courses, I'll show you how to survive with just a knife, maybe just an axe (Gransfors do some very nice ones).

 

 

Back on topic, re: vegitation, one site I go to has section that are heavily overgrown and I take a pair of secateurs out with me for 'foliage duty' much easier than using a knife (especially when there are brambles about).

 

Of the players I've met using knives, if they tried to knife kill me I would 'defend' myself, sorry Greg, doesn't make me a sad individual - it's reflection of those players - I've mentioned themm in previous threads - one player's knife kill bordered on battery ! In that case the law allows self defense.

 

Being sneaky enough to tap someone on the shoulder shows considerable skill, so why the knife ?