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A word on the Magpul PTS MOE handguards. The stock metal cap behind the front sight and the stock delta ring do not fit the MOE handguards. They are a smidgen too small. You need to either file/dremel away some material inside the cap and delta ring and/or off the handguards themselves, where they fit into the cap and delta ring. I used a TM metal cap, and the fit is so ridiculously tight that the handguards can't completely close. There's a tiny gap at the rear. Also just noticed that my barrel sits pointing to the left, haven't figured out how to fix that one yet.

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is this another new type of magazines?

 

http://www.ebairsoft.com/metal-50rds-magazine-p-2377.html

 

They look like the Gen. 2 Mags from AGM I received today from RSOV.

 

very cheap... 31 Dollar shipped... and 69 for three.

 

Lance

 

Yeah, those mags look great!

 

They do fit the description of the AGM lightweight mags. Either way, I need to get some ASAP.

 

-Luis

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Also just noticed that my barrel sits pointing to the left, haven't figured out how to fix that one yet.

 

Sounds like your delta ring assembly isn't screwed on straight or could be that its not tight enough.

 

Edit**

O yea, I got my anti-rotation links from EBB and they are total ######. The screws loosely fit the links so after firing a mag or two the screws will unseat themselves. Also there is a slight play with the links and the MBK.

Edited by Roecar
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Does the PGC hop-up fit straight on? What barrel lenght shall i use? And does the RA-T Complete naps bolt fit? I am not so handy so if it is not a direct fit screw it =)

 

Btw i have fierd about 500bbs and not a single problem exept the bolt stop doesent work at all.

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Does the PGC hop-up fit straight on? What barrel lenght shall i use? And does the RA-T Complete naps bolt fit? I am not so handy so if it is not a direct fit screw it =)

 

Btw i have fierd about 500bbs and not a single problem exept the bolt stop doesent work at all.

 

The PGC hop-up should be a drop in fit. However there is a trick to the assembly procces that can be found on redwolf. It only takes AEG barrels and should fix the problem with BBs rolling out the barrel. I'll let you know for sure when I receive mine.

 

If you're talking about the $260 NPAS complete bolt, then that one should also be a drop in fit.

 

Be aware that if you're running your gun stock on propane/green gas that the stock loading nozzle will eventually crack and break off in the back. This will happen close to 2000 rounds. It will get your bolt carrier stuck in the stock tube. and the loading nozzle will protrude forward.

 

-Luis

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Here is an insight on the AGM M4 GBBR Stock hop....

 

For those wondering how the AGM M4 GBB's hop units are in terms of performance, here's a short writeup of my experience from the one in my AGM M4 RIS:

 

The hop unit's construction is solid and has good fitting. The pieces are not super polished/precision cut or anything, but the pieces work together. The thing that I noticed was that the hop dial only turns partially (probably a good 120 degrees or so. The hop unit adjusts the backspin put behind a bb...however, out of the box, it only has enough hop to get .20g BBs to sail a little high. I would guess that with the hop set to max, .23g BBs would shoot straight. With use of .25g BBs, the BB's go far, but it slopes downwards after a good 150 feet.

 

The hop bucking is wrapped with a piece of masking tape. SniperX noted that this method was used to keep BBs from dropping out of the barrel after being chambered. My rifle occasionally dropped BBs after a few shots. I resorted to putting more tape around the hop bucking. It holds the BBs much better. Along with the hop being turned up for .25g BBs, I have had no BBs fall out of the barrel when I point the barrel down.

 

The hop dial is loose. The easiest fix for this is to put tape around the barrel and over the hop dial.

 

In my book, the gun does not have enough hop for the BB's (.25g) that I want to use through it. I also did not want the hop dial loose. To address these two issues, I ended up doing two things:

 

The first one was that I cut a small piece off of an AEG hop bucking. I then put this small piece in between the piece of the hop arm (that pushes down on the hop bucking) and the hop bucking itself. I picked this particular material for two reasons...the first one being that the material is rigid enough so it does not get crushed while being pliable. The second reason why I picked an AEG hop bucking to act as a shim (so the hop arm pushes more on the AGM M4 GBB hop bucking to increase the hop) is that the material itself is curved and conforms to the outer curve of the AGM M4 GBB hop bucking.

 

The second fix I did was to address the loose hop dial. This fix is very simple, all you have to do is to get a thin o-ring to slip over the inner barrel and back against the hop dial. When you install the barrel, the o-ring will go in between the hop dial and the outer barrel holding the dial in place. As a result, you can get precision adjustment.

 

Unfortunately, these two fixes does not make the gun shoot straight like an arrow. The fix does allow for more back spin for heavier BBs which translates to better effective range and better overall range making the gun skirmish worthy. Still, acuracy is questionable at longer distances. My hypothesis for the flight pattern inconsistency is that the BB get chambered farther than it should. What I mean by this is that I think that the BBs get chambered far enough into the inner barrel to where it comes in contact with the hop packing sticking down the barrel. For comparison, if you chamber the first round manually, slowly let the bolt forward to load the first round. Pull the charging handle back and take note of the placement of BB into the chamber and compare it to the placement of the BB after a few shots. Shot per shot, the BB placement is different based on my observation. Personally, I think this is the case why some shots hop up, some shots slope down (but still goes far), and some shots have a straight trajectory (perfect shot).

 

Overall reliability of the gun is still in question. The gun was designed with reinforcements on the bolt catch and the bolt carrier. The reinforcements however did not hold up after about 400 rounds of BBs through the gun. Aside from those bolt catch and bolt carrier reinforcement breaking, the gun is still in tact. The loading nozzle and hop unit are both in tact. I have read somewhere that the RA-Tech Winter Recoil Spring is similar in guage and tension as the stock AGM Recoil Spring, I will have to double check that. I am in Sacramento, and my RA winter recoil spring is in Virginia. I will post up a fairly detailed take on the gun when I find time. For now, I only have time to post up my thoughts on the hop unit.

--------------------

 

I wrote the entry a few days ago on a different website. I only just got back to Virginia and have the RA-Tech winter recoil spring. I also have in posession a Pro-Arms Hi-Power Nozzle (Bolt face) and Hop Unit.

 

http://gasguns.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1275

 

What I have just noticed is that when the nozzle is inserted into the metal piece for the hop unit, I could see space around the nozzle where the two pieces meet. I will check which hop bucking has a lip that would seal with the nozzle so as not to loose compression. Its about 230am right now so I'll have to wait until later today before I start messing with the gun. I have yet to unpack my (airsoft stuff) at the back of my car :P

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Here is an insight on the AGM M4 GBBR Stock hop....

 

For those wondering how the AGM M4 GBB's hop units are in terms of performance, here's a short writeup of my experience from the one in my AGM M4 RIS:

 

The hop unit's construction is solid and has good fitting. The pieces are not super polished/precision cut or anything, but the pieces work together. The thing that I noticed was that the hop dial only turns partially (probably a good 120 degrees or so. The hop unit adjusts the backspin put behind a bb...however, out of the box, it only has enough hop to get .20g BBs to sail a little high. I would guess that with the hop set to max, .23g BBs would shoot straight. With use of .25g BBs, the BB's go far, but it slopes downwards after a good 150 feet.

 

The hop bucking is wrapped with a piece of masking tape. SniperX noted that this method was used to keep BBs from dropping out of the barrel after being chambered. My rifle occasionally dropped BBs after a few shots. I resorted to putting more tape around the hop bucking. It holds the BBs much better. Along with the hop being turned up for .25g BBs, I have had no BBs fall out of the barrel when I point the barrel down.

 

The hop dial is loose. The easiest fix for this is to put tape around the barrel and over the hop dial.

 

In my book, the gun does not have enough hop for the BB's (.25g) that I want to use through it. I also did not want the hop dial loose. To address these two issues, I ended up doing two things:

 

The first one was that I cut a small piece off of an AEG hop bucking. I then put this small piece in between the piece of the hop arm (that pushes down on the hop bucking) and the hop bucking itself. I picked this particular material for two reasons...the first one being that the material is rigid enough so it does not get crushed while being pliable. The second reason why I picked an AEG hop bucking to act as a shim (so the hop arm pushes more on the AGM M4 GBB hop bucking to increase the hop) is that the material itself is curved and conforms to the outer curve of the AGM M4 GBB hop bucking.

 

The second fix I did was to address the loose hop dial. This fix is very simple, all you have to do is to get a thin o-ring to slip over the inner barrel and back against the hop dial. When you install the barrel, the o-ring will go in between the hop dial and the outer barrel holding the dial in place. As a result, you can get precision adjustment.

 

Unfortunately, these two fixes does not make the gun shoot straight like an arrow. The fix does allow for more back spin for heavier BBs which translates to better effective range and better overall range making the gun skirmish worthy. Still, acuracy is questionable at longer distances. My hypothesis for the flight pattern inconsistency is that the BB get chambered farther than it should. What I mean by this is that I think that the BBs get chambered far enough into the inner barrel to where it comes in contact with the hop packing sticking down the barrel. For comparison, if you chamber the first round manually, slowly let the bolt forward to load the first round. Pull the charging handle back and take note of the placement of BB into the chamber and compare it to the placement of the BB after a few shots. Shot per shot, the BB placement is different based on my observation. Personally, I think this is the case why some shots hop up, some shots slope down (but still goes far), and some shots have a straight trajectory (perfect shot).

 

Overall reliability of the gun is still in question. The gun was designed with reinforcements on the bolt catch and the bolt carrier. The reinforcements however did not hold up after about 400 rounds of BBs through the gun. Aside from those bolt catch and bolt carrier reinforcement breaking, the gun is still in tact. The loading nozzle and hop unit are both in tact. I have read somewhere that the RA-Tech Winter Recoil Spring is similar in guage and tension as the stock AGM Recoil Spring, I will have to double check that. I am in Sacramento, and my RA winter recoil spring is in Virginia. I will post up a fairly detailed take on the gun when I find time. For now, I only have time to post up my thoughts on the hop unit.

--------------------

 

I wrote the entry a few days ago on a different website. I only just got back to Virginia and have the RA-Tech winter recoil spring. I also have in posession a Pro-Arms Hi-Power Nozzle (Bolt face) and Hop Unit.

 

http://gasguns.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1275

 

What I have just noticed is that when the nozzle is inserted into the metal piece for the hop unit, I could see space around the nozzle where the two pieces meet. I will check which hop bucking has a lip that would seal with the nozzle so as not to loose compression. Its about 230am right now so I'll have to wait until later today before I start messing with the gun. I have yet to unpack my (airsoft stuff) at the back of my car :P

 

 

I had the same experiences as you did with the AGM M4.

 

However mine didn't come with masking tape on the hop-up rubber. I tried adding electrical tape and other mods. Still nothing worked. Either too much hop that the BB would hit the moon or the BBs would still roll out of the barrel.

 

The stock hop-up arm does not put pressure at all, even on the highest setting.

 

My stock G&P Mk.18 Mod.0 shooting at 330 FPS(.2g BBs) and with a 300mm barrel was easily outranging my AGM M4, which shoots above 400 FPS(.2g BBs) and has a 363mm barrel. The Mk.18 Mod.0 was also 100x more accurate.

 

This proves that hop-up means everything.

 

Simply put, the AGM M4 has terrible range and accuracy out of the box. I reccomend everyone having problems to get a PGC hop-up for AEG barrels.

 

The steel reinforcements on the stock bolt catch and bolt carrier also gave out and now my stock pot metal bolt carrier is torn up from contact with the Inokatsu bolt catch.

 

Second upgrade I reccomend is a new bolt catch and the whole bolt carrier group(bolt carrier and nozzle). If you plan on running propane/green gas then it will break the back of your loading nozzle in the long run.

 

The only worthy parts out of the box on the AGM M4 are the trigger components. These work fine and the hammer lock is steel.

 

The AGM M4 is NOT skirmishable out of the box. Do not get it if you're not willing to work on it.

 

Also it starts out cheap but you WILL be forced to buy reinforced parts if you want a good primary. However the good thing is that you'll spend less than a stock WA and maybe as much as a brand new G&P/VFC AEG.

 

Somehow I know that the newer JG and DBoys GBBRs will be far superior than the AGM, just like in the AEG departaments. Why did I get the AGM knowing this? I don't know. I want a GBBR fast!

 

GBBRs might be fun but they will never reach an AEG's functionality level. Never. However I like the new challenges that arise as I work on my GBBR.

 

-Luis

 

 

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I just installed my Pro Arms Hi-Power Nozzle. In comparison to the stock AGM nozzle, the placement of the opening where the gas goes in on the nozzle is about 1mm farther back on the Pro Arms nozzle. I will have to wait until later to know if this makes a huge difference in terms of retaining/losing seal between the magazine/nozzle assembly.

 

I am hoping that it does not as the stock AGM nozzle I have is already cracked. With less than 1000 rounds through it. Then again, i was plinking with the gun at 85 degrees Fahrenheit.

 

The fitting of the back part of the stock AGM nozzle to the Pro Arms nozzle is tight, but sloppy. The hole placement is okay. The fit is snug but not flush.

 

I will toy around with it later along with the Pro Arms adjustable hop unit that uses AEG barrels and hop buckings.

Edited by sacairsoftsn00py
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Somehow I know that the newer JG and DBoys GBBRs will be far superior than the AGM, just like in the AEG departaments. Why did I get the AGM knowing this? I don't know. I want a GBBR fast!

I wouldn't worry about buying the AGM M4 too much.

 

Rumours suggest that the JG gun will be a copy of the WE M4 and, frankly, it's already clear that the WE gun isn't being supported by the after-market anywhere near as much as the WA system is.

 

It remains to be seen how the Boyi gun turns out but they're not usually especially great. They produce a decent range of electric AKs and an "adequate" range of rather similar M4s.

The thing that really worries me about Boyi/DBoys is the state of some of their after-market components.

A lot of their mag catches, triggers, sights and other tat is actually pretty dreadful.

If they put similar quality bits in their GBB M4 it could end up being a right mess.

 

At the end of the day, I suspect we're all in much the same boat though.

We buy these things as a cheap way to buy into the system with the intention of replacing possibly every part in the long term.

 

On that note, I bought my AGM M4 as a cheap mess-about gun to experiment on without damaging my G&P M4.

Now I'm seriously considering buying one of the new(ish) King Arms receivers to improve the looks and probably end up re-buying most of the internals in order to make them fit.

 

 

Oh, just to add something to the thread, I've seen cheapie roller-bearing hammers for sale for these guns now. Not sure if it was at EBB or not though. Might be worth a look.

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I have not yet slept since I posted last. Its about 745am now :lol:

 

I don't have a fresh can of propane on hand so what I was left with to test the AGM M4 with the Pro-Arms Reinforced Nozzle was the green gas remaining in the magazine I loaded 5 days ago...Its probably high 60's to low 70's right now....

 

The 4-5 shots that I just popped off outside a few minutes ago yielded with favorable results...I did not detect any hissing (indicative of a good seal between the new loading nozzle and magazine seal) and my shots went far (60+ yards with .25g BBs). Not exactly straight, but its something I will be working on the next couple of days...

 

When I have fired off a few hundred rounds, I'll post my verdict on the Pro-Arms Reinforced Loading Nozzle.

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Quick question about the lemon-rate on these guns: how much of a risk is to buy this gun just to play around with it for a week or two (lets say 20-30 mags) and sell it again?

 

I just came back from the doctor: tendinitis, I wont be playing this summer either.

 

Thanks!

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@ Stealth:

 

That's pretty much true. With all my clone AEGs I've run them all stock and they were skirmishable. I also had expectations for them out of the box and most of them met them.

 

However since these GBBRs are a new category I really can't blame AGM since they were one of the first brands to step into the GBBR field. Hey, at least they gave us a cheap option......

 

Only time will tell how good the JG and the DBoys will be compared to the AGM.

 

I, myself, have only had great experiences with DBoys AEGs and parts. I was one of the first, if not the first one in the US to get one of their first full metal guns, the M4 SD. Even that one impressed me. I personally think that the DBoys(if it's a clone of the WA) will be superior than the AGM. These are all conjectures so nothing is certain.

 

@ Sacairsoftsnoopy:

 

I'm very interested in the results. Are you running an AEG barrel w/ an AEG bucking? If so how's the new hop-up?

 

If you used the stock AGM part that goes in the back of the loading nozzle, then it's going to break on you eventually using green gas.

 

I'd really appreciate a photo of the Pro Arms loading nozzle w/ what it comes and all the AGM parts you had to transplant over to the Pro Arms.

 

@ Chas:

 

Sorry to hear about that man. Regarding the gun, there is some risk to that.

 

If your gun locks back on empty then the first failure will occur with the bolt catch and the part of the bolt carrier that engages the bolt catch. As soon as I got my bolt carrier to lock back on empty, the steel inserts on both the bolt carrier and the bolt catch couldn't handle it and both finally fell of within 300 rounds. I'd try reinforcing them with industrial lock tight or glue, heck even welding them would be best.

 

The next failure would be the back of the loading nozzle. The part that connects to the bolt carrier. It can't take the continous stress of green gas/propane pressure. Mine cracked off at close to 2000 rounds. Your 20-30 magazines are 1000-1500 rounds. Plus as soon as you find out how fun it is to shoot, I think you'll go through more rounds than that. You're taking a risk there since the QC and tolerances vary greatly from AGM to AGM.

 

Also not to mention that my bolt catch snapped off on its own. I only inserted a magazine with the upper receiver open and the top of the bolt catch flew off. Potmetal.

 

If I did buy one to play around with, I'd use duster/HFC 134a just to be safe if you plan on selling it.

 

-Luis

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The photos of the Pro-Arms Loading Nozzle is on the Gas Guns Info website.

 

Yes, I am using an AEG barrel and AEG hop bucking in my AGM M4. Range wise, I would say that the Airsoft Elite .25g BBs that I have been using go past 200 feet easily. The back of the Pro-Arms Loading Nozzle that I am using is off of the stock AGM loading nozzle. I have contacted RA-tech with regard to that part so I can purchase one to replace it with when it fails on me.

 

Personally, I think that AEG's will get you the best performance in a skirmish. You get ROF, no cool down, no worries about dropping magazines while running. However, playing with a GBBR would be a different experience. You might get owned by a hi-capper, but you will have fun just popping shots with these things :)

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The photos of the Pro-Arms Loading Nozzle is on the Gas Guns Info website.

 

Yes, I am using an AEG barrel and AEG hop bucking in my AGM M4. Range wise, I would say that the Airsoft Elite .25g BBs that I have been using go past 200 feet easily. The back of the Pro-Arms Loading Nozzle that I am using is off of the stock AGM loading nozzle. I have contacted RA-tech with regard to that part so I can purchase one to replace it with when it fails on me.

 

Personally, I think that AEG's will get you the best performance in a skirmish. You get ROF, no cool down, no worries about dropping magazines while running. However, playing with a GBBR would be a different experience. You might get owned by a hi-capper, but you will have fun just popping shots with these things :)

 

That sounds pretty good. I'm currently on a search to finding the best loading nozzle, one that'll last on propane/green gas. I don't want to shell out $150 for the aluminum RA-tech loading nozzle w/ NPAS just yet......

 

Did you contact RA-Tech about the $5 or the $30 back part?

 

And yes, it's a whole new experience skirmishing with a GBBR. It's way funner but the price isn't. :P

 

-Luis

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News about my BCG, my second 2Roy bolt broke in the same part as my last one. Also the portion that goes into the cylinder broke as well. Just for the last nail in the coffin no matter what plastic part you have don't hold hope that it'll last one propane, green gas, or even CO2. RATech is probably the only decent BCG available on the market. I'll try and order one this weekend.

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Sweet, thank you for the information. I just saw how someone would make an adapter for the can. Simple to make, I'll have to share it over here I guess... involves cutting and glue... lol

Duster-adapterhow-to.jpg

and then...

Duster-adapterhow-to2.jpg

 

Forgive me for being off topic, and taking these pictures from someones photobucket. I just really think people should know how.

 

 

I wonder if the adapter for a Tanaka S.A.A. would work instead of gluing that piece? I'm going to buy a can of duster and give it a shot as I have the Tanaka adapter.

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I just transfer duster gas into an empty can of green gas. :)

 

Luis-

 

I just emailed RA-tech about the $5 piece. I intend on using that piece for when my back piece breaks...so far, i have had replacement parts on hand just before something goes wrong....

 

I have an airsoft surgeon loading nozzle assembly, light weight bolt carrier, g&p hop up packing and anti rotation links along with the prime pom buffer on the way. Should my pro-arms hop unit get messed up, i will have the stock hop still laying around as a spare...

 

i will have a light recoil spring, plastic loading nozzle, and light weight bolt carrier for my set up...lighter bolt carrier assembly and softer recoil spring means less shock to the hop unit and bolt face when returning to battery translating to longer lifespan....in theory...

Edited by sacairsoftsn00py
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Quick question about the lemon-rate on these guns: how much of a risk is to buy this gun just to play around with it for a week or two (lets say 20-30 mags) and sell it again?

I don't think there's many proper "lemons" really.

 

Thinking back through this thread, very few people have arrived and said "My gun wouldn't work and it's broke".

 

If anything, mine seems to have been one of the poorer guns.

Even so, almost all the problems are stuff you can fix with a bit of tinkering and some initiative.

 

leaky mags and dodgy hop-ups can be repaired with a bit of tinkering.

 

About the only real show-stopper is when the bolt splits if your shoot with green-gas for a couple of thousand shots.

 

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It uses the original barrel, bucking, hop-arm and aduster.

 

It also, erm, doesn't seem to work.

 

The holes for the hop arm to fit into are drilled a tiny bit too far up and, as a result, the arm doesn't have the range of movement that it should have.

 

Note that you CANNOT fix this by JB-Welding a blob onto the front of the arm. The problem will still remain because, as the front part tries to go down the back part will STILL be restricted in its movement inside the adjuster.

 

The only way you could fix this would be to heat up the aduster arm and bend it very slightly in the middle.

Not the sort of thing you want to do with your only hop up arm to make it work with an item that is supposed to be a drop-in replacement. :(

 

 

Found it :D thats great i wont buy it then.

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Just to input something I've found when asked to "fix" an AGM M4 (I've searched and it hasn't been addressed):

I was able to fix the forward assist by simply stretching out the spring underneath the ratchet arm. It was squashed up and making the arm sit too low, barely making contact with the notches on the bolt carrier.

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Which would you reccommend?

 

NPAS kit with Alluminium Nozzle w/simple adjust valve

 

NPAS kit with Plastic Nozzle w/simple adjust valve

 

RA TECH N.P.A.S with Simple Adjustment Valve Complete Bolt Set for WA M4

 

 

I'm guessing the complete bolt, but do these fit?

 

Also, did we establish which is the best hop up set to use?

Edited by crasstoe
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