sacairsoftsn00py Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 (edited) Just to verify, how much do people think it would cost, to make this rifle reliable and skirmishable? - trying to see if its worth it... too much IMO...youre better off with a G&P WOC... Results of the chronoing was 395 to 405 fps with abbey predator ultra with xtreme 0.23 bbs. Just a little to hot. was that with he stock mag or ghk? i heard the ghk seals on top of the magazine dont fet as good a seal as the stock one so there might be a loss of FPS... Edited July 24, 2009 by sacairsoftsn00py Quote Link to post Share on other sites
raito Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 Guys, that bit I circled, finally came loose and I lost it when I was shooting... anybody know what I can replace it with? was thinking of screwing in a small screw in there... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stealthbomber Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 If it was me I think I'd take the opportunity to drill that hole as far down as possible and then tap it and fit the longest screw I could find. That'd spread the shock throughout a larger lump of your bolt carrier. You're basically looking at the end of your bolt carrier though, IMO. Time for a steel one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hitmanNo2 Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 Could it be filed down a bit to give it a 90 degree flat face again as a temporary fix? I'm sure i've seen a pic of someones like that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stealthbomber Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 Could it be filed down a bit to give it a 90 degree flat face again as a temporary fix? I'm sure i've seen a pic of someones like that. Yeah you could but that'd make it harder to drill and tap the hole to fit a hard insert later on. That's why I suggested the guy take the opportunity to do the work now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
raito Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 Yeah you could but that'd make it harder to drill and tap the hole to fit a hard insert later on. That's why I suggested the guy take the opportunity to do the work now. Yup, just done that, so far it's holding up ... Now to scrounge up some money for a new bolt carrier, from what I've read it's best to go with the complete RA-Tech set right? but they seem to be out of stock everywhere... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sacairsoftsn00py Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 I think I know why the back of the nozzle ends up getting busted. I just checked my pro-arms loading nozzle and found that there's an indentation on the "reinforcement" at the back of the nozzle... The reinforcement area in the nozzle is the chunk of plastic before the very back part of the nozzle. Anyhow, I think that hits part #7 which limits the loading nozzles movement to front to back and keeps it from rotating. The stock one does not have the reinforcement area....so when the nozzle is pulled back by the bolt carrier, the back of the nozzle is caught onto by part number 7 which ends up breaking the back part of the nozzle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stealthbomber Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 it's best to go with the complete RA-Tech set right? but they seem to be out of stock everywhere... I think the complete RA-tech is the best way to go. Snorkelman was saying that they're in and out of stock every couple of days. Apparently (although I haven't checked) the complete BCG is in stock right now. Maybe shoot them an email and ask if it's possible for you to buy one now and have it shipped as soon as they com into stock? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
snorkelman Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 too much IMO...youre better off with a G&P WOC... was that with the stock mag or ghk? i heard the ghk seals on top of the magazine dont fet as good a seal as the stock one so there might be a loss of FPS... Aye, I could have bought a WOC but how many parts of that would I have upgraded in turn? -I'd have saved myself the expense of steel fire control parts and mag catch, but would still have been looking at the hop unit (if nothign else just to see if it was any better) and would definately have bought the 260 buck bolt carrier group regardless. by comparison total cost on the AGM with upgrades as currently set up would have been between 620 (using parts I bought) and 540 (depending on wether the cheaper hammer and ambi selector that are now available prove OK) Incl purchase of the gun the WOC with same 260 buck BCG purchased for it would have set me back more than that. running ultra my GHK mags will hit 490-odd FPS with NPAS fully dialled out that additional lug on the pro-arms nozzle tube looks like a worthwhile addition - by looks of it its not only going to add a bit more substantial amount of material for the side lock to key against (always handy), but it'll also going to limit the maximum extension of the nozzle and bolt itself (so should reduce any chance of the bolt and nozzle hanging up on front of the blowback chamber as they'll never get that far out). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Luis21 Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 Could it be filed down a bit to give it a 90 degree flat face again as a temporary fix? I'm sure i've seen a pic of someones like that. I wouldn't recommend it at all. When I did so, my steel bolt catch wore it down again fast. It went down to a 70ish degree angle. The steel insert on the stock bolt catch will also wear down the pot metal bolt carrier. @Snoopy: I might have to add some material to my RA-Tech complete BCG(when I get it) like the Pro Arms nozzle. Hey snoop, I know that your Pro Arms nozzle works real well inside the AS VLTOR bolt carrier. However have you tried using it inside the regular Colt style AS bolt carrier? I'd like to know. I also have to plan for the cheaper route since my AEG doesn't seem to sell.. This is what I'm planning to get if I go the cheap route: 1) AS bolt carrier group 2) RA-Tech part #2 w/ NPAS This is going to come out to about $175 ish so getting the complete RA-Tech NPAS BCG shouldbe the way to go, it's only about $100 more. Snoopy, is the regular $77 AS bolt carrier steel? Or at least the area where the bolt stop engages. Can you confirm this with a magnet? If it's not steel, how's it holding up against the steel bolt catch? It does come stock in a G&P from the factory, which has a steel bolt stop so it might work well. -Luis Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sacairsoftsn00py Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 Aye, I could have bought a WOC but how many parts of that would I have upgraded in turn? -I'd have saved myself the expense of steel fire control parts and mag catch, but would still have been looking at the hop unit (if nothign else just to see if it was any better) and would definately have bought the 260 buck bolt carrier group regardless. by comparison total cost on the AGM with upgrades as currently set up would have been between 620 (using parts I bought) and 540 (depending on wether the cheaper hammer and ambi selector that are now available prove OK) Incl purchase of the gun the WOC with same 260 buck BCG purchased for it would have set me back more than that. running ultra my GHK mags will hit 490-odd FPS with NPAS fully dialled out that additional lug on the pro-arms nozzle tube looks like a worthwhile addition - by looks of it its not only going to add a bit more substantial amount of material for the side lock to key against (always handy), but it'll also going to limit the maximum extension of the nozzle and bolt itself (so should reduce any chance of the bolt and nozzle hanging up on front of the blowback chamber as they'll never get that far out). I ended up purchasing the following G&P parts: Steel Bolt Catch $39 Steel Hammer Set $56 Steel Trigger $31 Steel Hammer Sear $28 total comes to $154.....eventually, the monkey metal parts in the AGM M4 that the bolt catch, hammer, trigger, and sear are going to wear down and break with use of green gas. They will all eventually have to be replaced. The Airsoft Surgeon Complete Bolt Carrier Group costs about $75....this brings your total to $229..... Since the hop unit will be replaced, tack on $45 for a Pro-Win hop unit and probably another $30 for an M4 length inner barrel...another $75 to be spent... You'll have to spend 304 bucks before shipping at this point. I'm thinking that I should have gone and bought a G&P WOC instead of the AGM with all the parts that needed to be fitted. Also, the magazines are worth ###### as they leak. The one that G&P comes with has worked out well for one of my friends. Supposedly, they are WA magazines (a mag that costs about $100). With the cheap parts available, it does seem like the AGM sounds like a good buy. However, nobody really knows how well those parts work in the gun. I have heard mixed things about the ACM steel sear. I heard it works, I heard it does not work. *shrugs*. ............... The wear on the side of my pro-arms looks like the plastic is bending/warping/ flexing . Its not chipping or breaking which means its resisting shock @Snoopy: I might have to add some material to my RA-Tech complete BCG(when I get it) like the Pro Arms nozzle. Hey snoop, I know that your Pro Arms nozzle works real well inside the AS VLTOR bolt carrier. However have you tried using it inside the regular Colt style AS bolt carrier? I'd like to know. I also have to plan for the cheaper route since my AEG doesn't seem to sell.. This is what I'm planning to get if I go the cheap route: 1) AS bolt carrier group 2) RA-Tech part #2 w/ NPAS This is going to come out to about $175 ish so getting the complete RA-Tech NPAS BCG shouldbe the way to go, it's only about $100 more. Snoopy, is the regular $77 AS bolt carrier steel? Or at least the area where the bolt stop engages. Can you confirm this with a magnet? If it's not steel, how's it holding up against the steel bolt catch? It does come stock in a G&P from the factory, which has a steel bolt stop so it might work well. -Luis I have not used the AS loading nozzle through my AS LW Bolt Carrier. I have fitted the nozzle into the AS LW bolt carrier though. It fits fine. I have no doubt that it will work through the LW Bolt Carrier just fine. The regular AS BCG is of a heavy weight metal. Its harder than the stock AGM bolt carrier. Right now, I am pretty darn convinced that looking at pics of stock G&P BCG...that the AS Metal BCG is the same as the stock G&P one. Its probably a G&P manufacture that got bought out by companies who then slapped their name on it. BTW, check out WGC....they have parts other online retailers do not carry. As far as fit and function, I do not know how they are. For that reason, I stick with name brand parts. I want to be sure that my gun will work when I install the parts in my gun. I am running an RA-Tech winter type recoil spring. I do not want my Aluminum Bolt Carrier slamming into the G&P steel Bolt Stop with the force of a 140% recoil spring. Do note that the parts where the Bolt Stop attaches to is still monkey metal. Guess where the stress gets transferred to? And if it breaks....then what? As far as I know, only Inokatsu carries that particular part and they sell it with the complete lower receiver bits ($150-200). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Luis21 Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 (edited) Thanks Snoopy. I was blessed enough to get me a full set of brand new Inokatusu lower reciever parts for $45 shipped. It depends on each person's case. For some the AGM might be cheaper, for others the WOC might be better. In your case, the WOC would of been better. -Luis Edited July 24, 2009 by Luis21 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Luis21 Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 (edited) Here's the copy of the PGC/Pro-Win hop-up unit I received yesterday. It takes AEG barrels and looks to be of very nice quality for the $14 I spent. Keep in mind that the PGC is $45. Too much for a hop-up unit if you ask me. Wonton Soup anyone? http://www.px-airsoft.com/showroom/model/T...455219328060058 Great service from PX-Airsoft by the way. I'll test it out with my gun as soon as I get my gun shooting again. Stay tuned. -Luis Edited July 24, 2009 by Luis21 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stew_b_10 Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 I did, just a couple posts above. The mag doesn't seem like it's releasing enough gas. sorry, i was speaking to roecar. you posted just before me. I should have made it more clear. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sacairsoftsn00py Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 (edited) Luis- In my case, I probably would have spent less time working quirks on a G&P WOC. I'm not sure if you already sensed that I am nit picky with things. I want things working a certain way when it comes to some things and I notice what I don't like in things design wise. That firing pin block....whats it made out of? Is it also of steel? If its steel, guess what's going to be next on my list to blow money on Edited July 24, 2009 by sacairsoftsn00py Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Luis21 Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 Luis- In my case, I probably would have spent less time working quirks on a G&P WOC. I'm not sure if you already sensed that I am nit picky with things. I want things working a certain way when it comes to some things and I notice what I don't like in things design wise. That firing pin block....whats it made out of? Is it also of steel? If its steel, guess what's going to be next on my list to blow money on Yeah, I know what you mean. I've worked on the externals to get them up to my specs quite a bit. Same will be with the internals. And yes, all those parts are steel, every single little piece is steel. The only thing that isn't steel is the box A WOC sounds good right now. No work needed on the externals, ZERO work. Let me tell you, G&P externals are comparable to real ARs. The only work needed on the WOC would be a metal part #2 for long run reliability. Maybe some hop-up work..... -Luis Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sacairsoftsn00py Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 must have a steel firing block Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Luis21 Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 must have a steel firing block Haha Must have RA-Tech $260 steel BCG!!! -Luis Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sacairsoftsn00py Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 On Schedule Initiated Picked up In transit Delivered At FedEx origin facility YUEN LONG HK Shipment Dates Ship date Jul 24, 2009 Estimated delivery Jul 27, 2009 by 4:30 PM ------------------------- G&P trigger, hammer, and sear... more testing next week....hopefully, i dont break anything this time around... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stew_b_10 Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 (edited) I decided to try the Airsoft Surgeon Professional Recoil set w/ 140% recoil spring. Even on green gas, the 140% recoil spring is far too strong. ROF is slow and the nozzle is literally throwing bbs down the barrel upon returning into battery. It only gets about 10 rounds off before the gun doesn't cycle far enough to feed anymore. However, using the aluminum recoil buffer with the stock spring does increase felt recoil and doesn't really slow the ROF noticeably. Edited July 25, 2009 by stew_b_10 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Luis21 Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 I decided to try the Airsoft Surgeon Professional Recoil set w/ 140% recoil spring. Even on green gas, the 140% recoil spring is far too strong. ROF is slow and the nozzle is literally throwing bbs down the barrel upon returning into battery. It only gets about 10 rounds off before the gun doesn't cycle far enough to feed anymore. However, using the aluminum recoil buffer with the stock spring does increase felt recoil and doesn't really slow the ROF noticeably. Thanks for the heads up on the Airsoft Surgeon recoil spring. I'm personally going to stay with the stock recoil spring, which is said to be identical to the RA-Tech winter spring, and get heavier recoil buffer for added felt recoil. I don't mind slower ROF. The stock ROF was super fast as it is so slower ROF wouldn't matter. -Luis Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bonjour43ma Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 (edited) lots of great info here, guys. Just got mine yesterday (062 RIS version) and spent the first hour or so tightening the front barrel and the rear stock (I'm slow... this is my first GBB rifle so I'm very careful with the parts ). The RIS version has a fake gas tube and that thing made taking off the top RIS plate a pain in the butt because the gas tube acutally goes THROUGH the front end of the top RIS plate so you have to remove the flash hider and front sight assembly before you can have clear access to the barrel nut. Anyway, I was able to tighten the rear buffer tube and added some black duct tape on the inside of the stock and it is now rock solid, no movements whatsoever. I tightened the barrel nut on the front and it too is now rock solid. HOWEVER, the only thing I can't seem to tighten completely is the front RIS. They're basically clamped together by the delta ring but neither the top nor bottom plate is screwed on to the outer barrel, so when you grab on to the RIS it feels a bit loose and wobbles slightly. Is there anyway I can tighten the RIS somehow? The delta ring isn't as tight as I would like it to be and I'm not too sure which part I can do a little bit of DIY to make it wobble-free... Edited July 25, 2009 by Bonjour43ma Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Luis21 Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 lots of great info here, guys. Just got mine yesterday (062 RIS version) and spent the first hour or so tightening the front barrel and the rear stock (I'm slow... this is my first GBB rifle so I'm very careful with the parts ). The RIS version has a fake gas tube and that thing made taking off the top RIS plate a pain in the butt because the gas tube acutally goes THROUGH the front end of the top RIS plate so you have to remove the flash hider and front sight assembly before you can have clear access to the barrel nut. Anyway, I was able to tighten the rear buffer tube and added some black duct tape on the inside of the stock and it is now rock solid, no movements whatsoever. I tightened the barrel nut on the front and it too is now rock solid. HOWEVER, the only thing I can't seem to tighten completely is the front RIS. They're basically clamped together by the delta ring but neither the top nor bottom plate is screwed on to the outer barrel, so when you grab on to the RIS it feels a bit loose and wobbles slightly. Is there anyway I can tighten the RIS somehow? The delta ring isn't as tight as I would like it to be and I'm not too sure which part I can do a little bit of DIY to make it wobble-free... I think that the RIS is the gun's only external flaw. Mine was also wobbly and had some play in it out of the box. The top and lower RIS halves have small channels that run along the back where they engage the barrel nut on the delta ring. This is where the RIS halves lock into place with the barrel nut teeth. All I did was I filled the channel with some silicone glue from a hot glue gun. This will make the two halves fit tighter inside the delta ring. This will eliminate rotating and wobble. I still hate AGM for going with the fake RIS design. They should of went with the real KAC design like G&P and VFC. The real KAC RIS(as well as the G&P and VFC) has a tensioned steel tab that locks into the front handguard cap. It also has a screw(either flathead or hex) located on the back of the RIS(on the T14 slot) that tightens a clasp that bites onto the barrel nut of the delta ring. Once fully tightened, any play and rotation is eliminated. The lower half just locks into place and stays rock solid. I'm telling you, I love the real design but AGM just half-assed it just like the first company who created the fake RIS design..... If you need photos of my modified RIS halves, just let me know. -Luis Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wraith18A Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Will a semi-close to real M4RAS (say, a CA version) work on the AGM without too much trouble? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
johnnyj Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 (edited) i will have a go at fitting my ca unit on now for you it fits with no problem Edited July 25, 2009 by johnnyj Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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