sacairsoftsn00py Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 GHK mag with AGM M4 is pretty good. Chrono tests showed it had consistent output and just a little more fps then with the stock mag - (415-410 GHK; 400-405 AGM). Only thing is you have to file some material off of the part which the mag catch engages. They hold gas very well, left them for a two days fully loaded and tried to add more gas later and they were still full while in AGM mag was only about half full. The gas was Abbey Ultra. The cool down is far less noticeable using the GHK mag. After several bursts it is only little cold while the AGM can be used as a portable cooler unit - pop ten rounds and stick it under your combat vest in this hot summer days Only let down with GHK's is their price. You can have two of those 5KU mags (please someone test them if they are skirmish worthy) for the price of one GHK Anyone know what happend to ProWin mags? Anyway, this is all testing that I could do before part of those plastic thingies around the nozzle broke off. Think I'll go with the complete NPAS BCG, and replace the hop unit and the bolt stop while at it. Please someone post a quick review of that cheap hop up unit replacement for AEG barrels is it worth it or not. When using a AEG barrel is the standard M4 dimension adequate or it sticks out of the flashider a bit? How many rounds could you get off of a full charge of gas through the GHK magazine? I'm not that concerned about the price at the moment. I just want a set of functioning magazines. Did you have to shave down part of the magazine catch? Standard M4 AEG inner barrel (365mm) will fit into the stock AGM outer barrel. It will not protrude out of the tip of the outer barrel and out the flash hider. I am using an M4 length KM 6.04mm TN barrel for AEG's in my AGM. As far as the bolt carier group, I opted with this setup... Airsoft Surgeon Light Weight Bolt Carrier Pro Arms Hi-Power Nozzle Part number 2 and the mounting hardware for the loading nozzle are stock AGM parts and work well with the AS LW BC and the Pro Arms Hi-Power Loading Nozzle. Personally, I like the Pro-Arms nozzle as it does not add much weight. In addition, it is reinforced structurally. They added some plastic material to where part #7 comes in contact with. On the stock Nozzle, the area where part #7 comes in contact with is the part of the nozzle that breaks. If my Pro-Arms hop unit busts, I will most likely puchase a metal Prime Hop-Unit for AEG hop bucking/inner barrel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
raito Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 another thing concerning magazine. when you guys say "a full charge" how long do you usually "charge" the magazine until it's full? I usually fill mine for about 10 seconds, and I can only get about 1 1/2 magazine shot out of it... I'm waiting for some Bomber magazines to arrive, how long do they need to be charged until they're full? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mutikasha Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 How many rounds could you get off of a full charge of gas through the GHK magazine? Unfortunately I cannot say how much rounds can you get out of a GHK magazine. It went trough a whole magazine and 15 bb from the second filling when part of the nozzle broke off. As to if they function ok, I would say yes. They are loads lighter than the stock on and if I had the currency I wouldn't bother with 5KU's or EA magazines. How does your hop unit hold in the terms of precision? These 200 rounds I've put trough the gun the bb-s flew everywhere but with enough force to hop a .23 bb. It was like: fine, fine, straight to the ground, to the left, fine and so on... I'm thinking hard about using a hop unit that allows usage of an AEG barrel. These pro arms nozzles don't seem to be in stock anywhere... Think I'll go with the NPAS because of it's ability to adjust the fps if nothing else. @raito I fill the mag until there are no more sounds of gas getting in...something for about ten seconds I would guess. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
johnnyj Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 guys a quick question for you will the Madbull Noveske Free Float Handguard Rail 10inch fit the agm/we barrels and upper ? i know some aeg ris/ras's fit just not sure on this Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sacairsoftsn00py Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Unfortunately I cannot say how much rounds can you get out of a GHK magazine. It went trough a whole magazine and 15 bb from the second filling when part of the nozzle broke off. As to if they function ok, I would say yes. They are loads lighter than the stock on and if I had the currency I wouldn't bother with 5KU's or EA magazines. How does your hop unit hold in the terms of precision? These 200 rounds I've put trough the gun the bb-s flew everywhere but with enough force to hop a .23 bb. It was like: fine, fine, straight to the ground, to the left, fine and so on... I'm thinking hard about using a hop unit that allows usage of an AEG barrel. These pro arms nozzles don't seem to be in stock anywhere... Think I'll go with the NPAS because of it's ability to adjust the fps if nothing else. @raito I fill the mag until there are no more sounds of gas getting in...something for about ten seconds I would guess. As far as precision, i would say that the shots pattern is acceptable. From 150 feet, you wont have any problems taking someone out with semi auto. With full auto, shots go everywhere because of recoil. Otherwise, bbs shoot pretty much the same distance as the shots following the last. If anything, blame cool down. Also, green gas and 134a has lubricant in it. When it gets onto the hop bucking, thats when your shots become unpredictable. Clean your hop bucking as often as possible. Preferably after each round of game you play. Pro arms hi power nozzle and hop unit are available at airsoft global. I got mine for 11 bucks cheaper last month when they had the set marked for 62 bucks. So far, both the nozzle and hop unit has held up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Roecar Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 guys a quick question for you will the Madbull Noveske Free Float Handguard Rail 10inch fit the agm/we barrels and upper ? i know some aeg ris/ras's fit just not sure on this I can find out for you in a couple of days when I have free time to try the Madbull Noveske rail. I have the stock barrel nut and the GBBR barrel nut. I'll try both and take pics. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mutikasha Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 As far as precision, i would say that the shots pattern is acceptable. From 150 feet, you wont have any problems taking someone out with semi auto. With full auto, shots go everywhere because of recoil. Otherwise, bbs shoot pretty much the same distance as the shots following the last. If anything, blame cool down. Also, green gas and 134a has lubricant in it. When it gets onto the hop bucking, thats when your shots become unpredictable. Clean your hop bucking as often as possible. Preferably after each round of game you play. Pro arms hi power nozzle and hop unit are available at airsoft global. I got mine for 11 bucks cheaper last month when they had the set marked for 62 bucks. So far, both the nozzle and hop unit has held up. Forgot to answer your question about the part on the mag where the mag catch engages the mag - yes you have to file it a bit, but only a little. Maybe I'll go with the poor man's version of the solution because there are obvious hop problems - Pro arms combo and original bolt charier. NPAS will have to wait a bit longer. Can you tell how much rounds did you put trough the gun with the pro arms kit? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sacairsoftsn00py Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 I have put through about 2000+ rounds through the loading nozzle and the hop unit. Another option for you would be buying the 75 dollar kit on airsoft global. Then you get a better bolt carrier group. Then buy a g&p hop bucking. Total would be a little over 110 bucks after shipping. Just add an ra tech bolt catch and maybe a g&p or lct sear. Those will get your necessities covered. 150 bucks for a complete fix. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Luis21 Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 @Multikasha: I have the copy of the PGC hop-up unit for AEG barrels. It looks very nice. However I can't test the performance because the loading nozzle is broken and I can't shoot right now. I'm trying to get money for a complete NPAS bolt carrier group. Until then I won't be able to see the results unless someone wants to send me a loading nozzle for testing. I will also be getting 6 of the 5KU magazines so I'll comment on those too. -Luis Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mutikasha Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 @Multikasha: I have the copy of the PGC hop-up unit for AEG barrels. It looks very nice. However I can't test the performance because the loading nozzle is broken and I can't shoot right now. I'm trying to get money for a complete NPAS bolt carrier group. Until then I won't be able to see the results unless someone wants to send me a loading nozzle for testing. I will also be getting 6 of the 5KU magazines so I'll comment on those too. -Luis You are in a pretty much same situation as I am regarding the bolt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sacairsoftsn00py Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 (edited) I on the other game hold onto parts as such. I have 1 extra loading nozzle and one extra bolt carrier group. . On a side note i just got the g&p steel sear. It is a straight drop in replacement upgrade part. I super glued the oring of one of my magazines. After one full mag the magazine is still working. I will do some more shooting tomorrow. I should have 6 ghk and 4 wa magazines by the end of the week. Edited July 27, 2009 by sacairsoftsn00py Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Luis21 Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Yeah, it sucks Multikasha.... @Snoop: You should really sell me that AS BCG man. I don't really know now. Since my AEG doesn't seem to sell quick enough, I might just have to ditch the complete NPAS BCG and just get part #2...... -Luis Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sacairsoftsn00py Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Luis- You know how I like having spares. BCG is not going anywhere man...sorry On a side note. My attempts at contacting RA-Tech has yielded in nothing but failure. I choose not to waste my time with them anymore. Other retailers have been more than happy to provide their goods and services to me. Thanks so much to Airsoft Global and Redwolf Airsoft for helping me get my rifle up and running. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Roecar Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 News to report, I got the last bits for my gun to make it operational again. One RATech NPAS BCG, RATech bolt catch, ACM Ambi-selector, and one ACM UBR. First off if you have the cash RATech NPAS is WORTH IT. Why you ask? Its nice to adjust your FPS and while firing I haven't experienced any serious cool down or miss feeds. Also my forward assist actually has a purpose now becuase it works The bolt catch works flawlessly with the stock AGM firing block but you need to file the paint and a little, very little bit of material from the middle area and around the pin hole area. Also a tad bit the receiver but thats it. My ACM Ambi-selector works but the "notches" that keep it in "safe, semi, auto" are too shallow causing it to spin freely. I'll need to dremel the notches deeper for it to be of use but other than that it fit like a glove and switches the gun accordingly. Lastly the ACM UBR is crayz awesome the build is pretty sturdy and the attachment points look strong, just one problem. I think its meant for only WA receivers. The threads are waaaay too thick but they are removeable, there may be a replacement inner tube with smaller threads but I have no clue where to find them. As for accuracy I only can tell you my gun with the PDI barrel, and Prime hopup are laser accurate up to 25ft. Past that I'll have to wait until my next game day to accurately tell you the distance. Till then I wont know. I'll try and post pics when I have time to take some decent ones. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
snorkelman Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 On a nice fresh full can of abbey ultra filled at room temp (18 deg C?) a GHK mag is full when it weighs around 15g to 18g more than it weighs empty. Running a 1 foot pound (380 FPs with .20) npas setting on heaviest combo of parts (steel bolt carrier, aluminium bolt, AGM hammer spring, aluminium buffer and a 140 to 150% strength 'summer' spring) I found it would spit out around a mag and a half per fill (60-odd BBs) Havent got round to counting them exactly as yet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sacairsoftsn00py Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Thanks for the info snorkelman I just changed my hop bucking. Originally, I was using a Guarder 70 (Hard Type) Hop Bucking for the purpose of durability. I was curious as to how the flight pattern of the BB's were with the Guarder 50 (Soft Type) Hop Bucking would be. I then cut and installed a Guarder Soft Type hop bucking into my Pro Arms Hop Up Unit. As expected, shots flew more consistently than when I was using the Hard Type hop bucking. It was more responsive. Although I am iffy with the soft type hop bucking in a setup that shoots over 400 FPS, I think I will keep the Soft Type hop bucking in there for general plinking. I am just happier with the flight pattern of BBs. What I would attribute the more stable flight pattern with use of the softer bucking would be to the enhanced grip behind the bbs (even with some liquid propellant going through the barrel). The Hard Type hop bucking is more plasticky than rubbery and offers lesser of a grip behind the BBs specially with liquid propellant lubricating it. For this reason, I think that magazines do affect the accuracy of a gas powered gun. With the NLS, you have less propellant self lubricating the hop bucking shot for shot. This translates to a more stable flight pattern....and in turn, precision. --------------------------- My 2 GHK magazines are inbound. I should have them on hand before the end of the week. Airsoft Extreme just processed the order for 4 WA magazines for my M4. Hopefully I can get shipping confirmation for it. Still have not heard from the guy who I sent money to for 4 GHK magazines. It has been 36 hours since payment was sent. I would hate for the deal to go bad due to lack of communication for his part. All he has to say would be something like "Shipping the mags tomorrow" or something of the like. *shrugs* So far, the setup that I am pretty happy with consists of the following: Pro-Arms Hop Up Unit Pro-Arms High Power Loading Nozzle Guarder Soft Type Hop Bucking KM 6.04mm TN barrel for M4 (365mm) G&P Steel Bolt Stop G&P Steel Hammer Sear Airsoft Surgeon Light Weight Bolt Carrier RA-Tech Winter Recoil Spring ------ To keep the hammer/trigger spring from coming out...I have installed a G&P Anti-Rotation Links set. As far as extra (just in case parts), I have the following: G&P Steel Hammer G&P Steel Trigger G&P Hop Bucking for WA M4 (installed in the stock AGM Hop Unit/Inner barrel assembly) Airsoft Surgeon Complete Bolt Carrier Group Airsoft Surgeon Loading Nozzle Guarder Hard Type Hop Bucking I hope I will not have to use any of those parts any time soon. ---------------------- With the heavy weight AGM Magazines, I have tried a fix that some people employed on theirs. The small o-ing that seals the brass ring (the one getting knocked out of place when the hammer hits the pin of the valve) has been super glued using Gorilla Super Glue. I chose this particular glue because it said that the glue is reinforced with rubber. Having rubber in the glue means that the adhesive will be less prone to cracking. So far the magazine that I have been using has gone through about 80 rounds through it without a hitch. I have also only been shooting on semi auto. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
colazel Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 it is possible to get video to how dissasemble the trigger or how to install the bolt catch or the anti rotation link, i think it would be very useful for us!!! next time someone dissasemble the gbbr please do a video and post it on youtube!!! thank Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sacairsoftsn00py Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Check you tube for those. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skoda Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 it seems i have snapped the pin that holds the hammer in place on mine, anyone have any ideas on where a steel version can be bought? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MDK_Marshal Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Just thought I might give you lads all a heads up... Remember when I said that my Gen 2 AGM mags were holding gas from a skirmish a few days before? Well, A good couple of weeks have passed, and they're still holding the same gas with no problems or leaks. At all. So, if you're after dirt cheap mags, the newer AGM ones will work perfectly fine, it seems. As far as holding gas goes, at any rate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skoda Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 I have the older version of the gun and the mag holds gas fine, its just all of the o-rings from the valve needed to be taken off and soaked in silicone to expand and soften them a bit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sacairsoftsn00py Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 it seems i have snapped the pin that holds the hammer in place on mine, anyone have any ideas on where a steel version can be bought? Check out EBB. They have a copy of G&P Anti-Rotation Links that are made out of steel. If you need one any time soon, I could sell you my 2 stock hammer/trigger pins. They are the same thing. Remember when I said that my Gen 2 AGM mags were holding gas from a skirmish a few days before? Well, A good couple of weeks have passed, and they're still holding the same gas with no problems or leaks. At all. So, if you're after dirt cheap mags, the newer AGM ones will work perfectly fine, it seems. As far as holding gas goes, at any rate. Good find dude. I am glad the magazines are working out great for you. I have a few questions though.... What gas are you using? How hot is it where you are? How hot was it when you were skirmishing with the magazines? How many magazines do you have? How many rounds have you put through each of the magazines you have? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RUSHER2 Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 A question?? Are King Arms metal bodys for the WA system have that shiney finish to them? i hate that finish. I want it like the G&P metal bodys the matt gray color? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crasstoe Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Does anybody know how the RA TECH NPAS BCG copes on 134a gas and what fps can be achieved using 134a and an NPAS BCG? I ask since 134a is readily available to me... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MDK_Marshal Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 (edited) Good find dude. I am glad the magazines are working out great for you. I have a few questions though.... What gas are you using? How hot is it where you are? How hot was it when you were skirmishing with the magazines? How many magazines do you have? How many rounds have you put through each of the magazines you have? Straight propane (Rothenberger brand, if that helps ), Relativley cool at the moment, probably about 20 Degrees C average? It was probably about 25-30 Degrees C when I was skirmishing, it was at the end of the "english heat wave" we had a wee while back I have one old-style mag (not holding gas atm) and three newer ones, with the newer mags having a good 300 odd rounds through each one, at least. Note that all temperatures are likely to be totally wrong, but I sure aint been keeping them in a freezer Edited July 28, 2009 by MDK_Marshal Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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