AGM M4 GBB

[snorkelman]

the PGC hop up copy at 14$ is no more on the website...dont know why!!! i ordered this hopup last week...ouf

 

I think boomarms still has it at 15 dunno how much the shipping is from there though (cant be arsed with sites that expect me to insert everything including my shoe size, and get 90 percent of the way thru the ordering process before telling me the shipping cost)

 

Im wondering wether PX has their system set to only list 'in stock' parts? might be one reason its not showing up at the mo

Edited August 4, 2009 by snorkelman

[the hot tuna]

thanks snorkelman, I think I'll wait until you get your's in so I know exactly which one is right. I'm chairsofting until Feb. 2010 so I got time.

[snorkelman]

@ hot tuna - Ive checked against a spare bolt, go with the 3mm ones those are a decent fit

 

regarding differences in barrel nuts mentioned a page or so back:

 

the 063 064 065 use a thin shouldered outer barrel with a corresponding low shouldered barrel nut as per the G&P type. Not sure if the thin shouldred barrel is real steel spec or not but it certainly works with a real steel barrel nut and allows that type of nut to screw fulyl home on the upper receiver threads.

 

 

the 061 and 062 use a thick shouldered outer barrel with a corresponding high shouldered barrel nut to screw it onto the receiver as per WA type

 

Try to use a real steel (or G&P) barrel nut on those WA style outer barrels and it bottoms out against the shoulder on the outer barrel before its got more than a couple of turns of thread onto the upper - that simply isnt enough thread to ensure a secure fit and will leave everything in front of it a few mm off from where they should be

 

Try to use a thick shouldred type AGM/Wa nut on a thin shouldered G&P style barrel and the barrel will waive around in the wind

 

examples:

 

If your fitting a front set that uses a delta ring just use the complete AGM delta ring assembly if your using the original barrel

 

if you're fitting a new outer barrel thats for G&P then make sure you have a coresponding G&P style barrel nut to go with it, or that it comes with spacer rings (drop those onto the outer barrel till you have enough of them to make up the difference in thickness and you can then use the stock AGM nut)

 

If your fitting a free float set up that comes with its own FF mounting barrel nut, then you might well find that the only nut available for it expects a thin style barrel shoulder. At which point you're going to have to lay out for a new barrel to go with it or wait for them to release a WA compatible nut.

 

 

The final option if you're technically inclined is to reduce the shoulder on a thick barrel down to width of shoulder on a thin shoulder one.

 

With access to a lathe thats a straightforward enough task - you're just centering it up and then taking material off the front face of the shoulder no other work would need done

 

Without access to a lathe you could try removing material from the base of the barrel and reducing the thickness of the shoulder that way - trouble is if you do take material from the base of the barrel (rather than takig it from front of the shoulder as you would with a lathe) then you'ld need to remove same amount of material from front of the hop adjuster too

 

at end of the day though outer barrels are pretty cheap and hardly worth the effort of doing above work

Edited August 4, 2009 by snorkelman

[snorkelman]

worlds most blingingest 7.5" pistol build work in progress

 

edit on second thoughts I'll keep it under wraps till its completed saves spoiling the surprise lol

Edited August 4, 2009 by snorkelman

[Frakk2k]

I was thinking about swapping the front for something that secures to the upper, making wobble a thing of the past. But are there any good alternatives that uses the original deltaring, and still secures with the upper? The KAC RASII? (http://www.ebairsoft.com/dboys-metal-rasii-p-2039.html), but I have heard the AEG fronts are a just a tad to short for this?

[Clastyclay]

Is it possible to silence it effectively? Or do I have to close the ejection port? Where does most of the sound comes from?

 

Thanks

[Wraith18A]

The ejection port will open no matter what you do, just like the real steel. I would assume that a foam-filled sound suppressor would do something to quiet the sound of the shots, but there isn't much you can do about the bolt carriers' movement.

[Clastyclay]

I want to build a special cover for the ejecting port to keep the sound low.

 

The question is, DOES the most sound comes out of the of the muzzle. I will not use a crappy wanne-be-silencer.

 

I need to keep the sound low because of my neighbors ;-)

[snorkelman]

Bolt carrier movement and the big expulsion of gas from the bolt as it reaches full expansion and vents the pent up charge of gas that got it there are going to be the main ones

 

Ought to mention - if any one is in the market for a steel hammer, trigger, semi sear and fire select and about to lay out some dollars on them they might want to wait 10 to 14 days to keep their options open as RA-T's 3 round burst kit should be shipping by then.

 

Asking price is 160 bucks for the set which isnt cheap but its not that much more than an RAT hammer (70) RAT sear (10) G&P trigger (38) and G&P/Ino selector (30 odd) which work out around 130 to 140-odd for standard full auto parts.

 

I suppose its a bit more palatable on the AGM - where none of the original parts being replaced were steel, going to be a wee bit more of an ouch on the WOC where the bits that need gutted and replaced are already perfectly useable steel ones..

 

 

 

Edited August 4, 2009 by snorkelman

[salazar]

Just got my hands on a couple of co2 mags designed for the WE M4 GBR.

So would a WE Bolt fit the AGM since they all build on a wa/we platform.

Any info some one. Or at least som tips to get thease bastards to fit the AGM.

 

// SALAZAR

[MDK_Marshal]

Just got my hands on a couple of co2 mags designed for the WE M4 GBR.

So would a WE Bolt fit the AGM since they all build on a wa/we platform.

Any info some one. Or at least som tips to get thease bastards to fit the AGM.

 

// SALAZAR

 

 

My initial thoughts would be that you can't, due to them being totally different systems.

 

In theory, if you get the gas port, feed lips, and striker all to line up, it's possible. Theoretically,

 

EDIT: May as well add more information. The WA and WE systems are TOTALLY different. Yes, it's still a GBB system, and yes, it's theoretically possible to use mags from one in the other (see above), but Realistically? Even if you could, it's a waste of time and money.

 

If you want a WE system, get a WE. The AGM is based on the WA system, and is, for all intents and purposes, incompatible with anything internal from the WE system.

Edited August 4, 2009 by MDK_Marshal

[salazar]

With all respect a very good answer!!

not worth the time the money!

Eather way, since the tread is 59 pages long and I ended up 59 later I would like a short breef what internals

that need to be replaced in advance. Since the kick in this *bramston pickle* hurts the *suitcase* out of my ears and arm, the inside

will take some devastating damages after 3k bbs passing, easy guessing ?!

 

 

[MDK_Marshal]

With all respect a very good answer!!

not worth the time the money!

Eather way, since the tread is 59 pages long and I ended up 59 later I would like a short breef what internals

that need to be replaced in advance. Since the kick in this *bramston pickle* hurts the *suitcase* out of my ears and arm, the inside

will take some devastating damages after 3k bbs passing, easy guessing ?!

 

Depends where you live, to be honest, and what gas you want to run it on.

 

I'm going to assume propane and an area with high fps limits. So, What I would personally recommend is...

 

Steel bolt stop, and maybe something to stop the bolt face wearing down quickly.

 

You can have steel sears, new bolt carrier, new bolt, and so on... But in my experience, these aren't needed. My AGM has been running (albeit at about 250-270 fps) for at least one skirmish, as well as a fair amount of plinking. There's minimal wear to most of the internal parts, but the bolt stop shows wear, and there's a fair amount on the bolt carrier.

 

Everything else is fine, seemingly. The internals may well wear out in about five or ten skirmishes, but there's no way to tell how long. I'd wager it'll last a while.

 

For a full upgrade, Steel sears and trigger guts, but that's long term. Basically, pick and choose what you want to upgrade, but concentrate on the bolt and it's carrier.

 

EDIT: Hope that this is coherent and undertandable, There's been alcohol involved! I also recommend an NPAS system for Lower power limits. While my home-made mod can lower power, it's imprecise and a bit unreliable. NPAS should be more consistent, and much easier to tune to a specific power... One Joule, in my case

Edited August 4, 2009 by MDK_Marshal

[Bonjour43ma]

I was thinking about swapping the front for something that secures to the upper, making wobble a thing of the past. But are there any good alternatives that uses the original deltaring, and still secures with the upper? The KAC RASII? (http://www.ebairsoft.com/dboys-metal-rasii-p-2039.html), but I have heard the AEG fronts are a just a tad to short for this?

 

After some DIY on the barrel, RIS, front sight, and the rear pin hole on the upper, I can honestly say that my gun is 99% wobble free, even after tons of automatic shooting after I've tightened things up just this past weekend. The last 1% movement is from the mag but that is acceptable since the small movement will help in making the output valve on the mag line up properly with the bottom part of the nozzle.

 

I wish I could get you to hold my AGM because it feels like one solid piece of metal welded together. It is THAT solid and free of any wobbling, no BS.

 

These are the things I did to my 062 RIS version to make it wobble-free.

 

Front barrel + upper:

- tighten the barrel nut using a grip wrench and vice wrench (if you have the AR15 tool wrench it would be much better)

 

Upper + Lower:

- fold up a small piece of clear tape and stick it in the rear pin hole of the upper. Once the upper is closed into the lower and the pin is in, there is zero movement

 

RIS:

- drill a small hole on the top and bottom plate where the notch from the barrel nut is in contact with them, so that when you push the delta ring against the plates they will fit completely flush (you can go back a few pages to see my post with some pics, I think it's on page 54 or 53)

- put black tape into the groove where the barrel nut would be when you close the plates, so that there is no space whatsoever for the RIS to slide or move around when the top and bottom plates are clamped together

 

Front sight:

- drill a small hole at the lower part of the sight where there should have been a notch sticking out, and insert a small screw or nail so that the front RIS can be held in place, without any rotational movement, by both the fake gas tube and the newly inserted screw/nail

 

 

So, with all the above done, what's happening is that the RIS is being pushed forward by the barrel nut; being pushed backwards into the barrel nut by the front sight; being clamped together by the delta ring; and being held in place by the gas tube + additional screw/nail on the front sight - this virtually makes the RIS, outer barrel, delta ring, upper, and lower, one giant piece of metal with zero movement, and making it as solid as it can be without buying a new RIS/ RAS.

 

Give the above a try and see if they'll make your gun more solid. When I first picked up the AGM out of the box it was just a big mess of wobbliness - the front barrel, rear buffer tube, rear stock, and the RIS were ALL loose, making the gun feel like a cheap $50 plastic gun you can buy from Walmart. However, with everything tightened up it is as solid as it can be for an all metal GBB. IT FEELS AWESOME.

Edited August 5, 2009 by Bonjour43ma

[the hot tuna]

So has anyone found any problems with the Ra-Tech Complete BCG, or is THE thing to get if you have the money? I know these kinds of questions are tired, but I got $300 to throw at my AGM and I need stuff confirmed.

 

Also, will the Ra-Tech bolt carrier's bolt stop "nub" hold up? Mine broke off of my stock bolt carrier.

[snorkelman]

well its not indestructable but its certainly the strongest setup out there so far.

 

Just don't rely on it being setup perfectly out of the box - before fitting it check the replaceable nozzle is fully screwed into the nozzle tube, that the nozzle/bolt assembly retracts snappily under its own spring pressure when drawn out an inch or two by hand and let go (if it doesnt ditch the o-ring) also check the e-clip on the rear if its bent twisted replace it, it'll only end up getting pulled out of its mounting point while in use otherwise.

 

there is no nub on the steel carrier - theres no need for a 'steel nub inserted into a die-cast bolt carrier' design. Instead the entire face of the carrier is plain

 

Its not the only option, you could go for a lightweight setup and try mixing Pro arms reinforced nozzle assembly an RA-T npas bolt and an airsoft surgeon CNC'd aluminium carrier asuming they all work/fit together

 

On paper that would save you 50 bucks or so over cost of the RA-tech setup but to be honest by time you added the shipping to two different orders to obtain those parts most of that 50 bucks would be eaten back up. Whereas the 260 bucks cost of the complete carrier from RA-T puts you into their 'over 200 dollars free shipping category' As a result as it isnt saving you any real amount of dought then I'd only consider the proarms/AS/RAT combo setup if you specifically want a lighter BCG/higher ROF setup

 

Edited August 5, 2009 by snorkelman

[the hot tuna]

I kind of like the idea of the lightweight option, could someone PM me the links to everything I need please?

 

I really want a fully functional bolt-stop, along with an all around skirmishable rifle. Has anyone had luck with the 5KU mags?

[RUSHER2]

Does anybody know if agm is going to release extra uppers for there rifles?

 

Like the CQB upper and what not without the bolt?

 

Becuase there selling extra bolts and nozzles and there kac ris.

[snorkelman]

difficulty with building the lightweigth setup is theres no guarantee all the part combos would work together straight out of the box. Might need minor fettling might need a lot. You'ld either have to find someone on ne of the forums already using that exact combo of parts who can confirm it for you, or stick your neck out and end up the one doing that confirming/denying for other folks

 

if you do want to go with it you could pick up the three of these from boom arms (so one set of shipping charges):

 

http://www.boomarms.com/sc/viewproductdeta...?ProductID=2835

http://www.boomarms.com/sc/viewproductdeta...?ProductID=2578

http://www.boomarms.com/sc/viewproductdeta...?ProductID=2893

 

note going by the photo the npas bolt they sell on its own isnt the easy adjust style one

 

 

or again from boomarms these two:

 

http://www.boomarms.com/sc/viewproductdeta...?ProductID=2835

http://www.boomarms.com/sc/viewproductdeta...?ProductID=3066

that complete bolt and nozzle npas does have the easy adjust npas

and you end up with everything from billet (so no large plastic parts in there at all

AND the ability to buy cheap screw in replacement nozzles at 3 bucks and 5 bucks a pop)

 

 

or instead of the AS ultralightweight vltor style carrier you could try the bomber one?

http://www.boomarms.com/sc/viewproductdeta...?ProductID=2930

 

theres no accurate weigths given on boomarms site so its hard to tell how much of a weight difference thered be between the AS and the Bomber bolt carriers

 

 

decides if your feeling lucky, pays your money and takes your choice

 

[Stealthbomber]

Does anybody know if agm is going to release extra uppers for there rifles?

 

Like the CQB upper and what not without the bolt?

 

Becuase there selling extra bolts and nozzles and there kac ris.

For a hundred bucks a pop, just buy another gun, take what you need and sell the rest for spares.

[snorkelman]

For a hundred bucks a pop, just buy another one, take what you need and sell the rest for spares.

 

agreed in fact for 100 bucks a pop why even bother setting it up as two uppers buy a spendy bolt carrier group and share it between them

 

if the fire control parts go on one of them then start to treat them as two uppers and one lower

 

 

 

[the hot tuna]

thanks snorkelman, but I don't know how much the shipping will be and I can't go over $300.

[snorkelman]

a buy the ra-tech bolt carrier group thats a guaranteed 260 bucks with free shipping and as its all from same manufac it will all fit together

 

b fill out all the boom arms order nonsense submit it and find out how much they quote you for shipping. The parts themselves add up to something like 220 to 260 bucks depending on which combo you choose so you've got at least 40 to play with for shipping If folks end up wasting BA's time by submitting orders to them just to find out shipping cost and thend ont follow thru on buying then thats boom arms fault for being daft enough not to have a system in place to precalculate it ahead of checkout.

 

c find somewhere else that has the parts I linked to for the lightweight configs and calculates shipping without having to submit a formal query, Boomarms was just an example to show the parts in question, airsoft global ought to have them too (though expect differences in prices from one supplier to another)

 

 

However to reiterate the point in my first post the RA-tech steel bolt carrier with aluminium internals is likely to be the strongest option currently available.

 

On the other hand it could be that in practice the aluminium carrier and aluminium bolt in combo with each other actually prove a better wearing combo of parts than a steel bolt carrier ixed with aluminium internals. Question ofor you to work out is wether the parts listed actually match up wth each other and function. I dont run that config so honestly cant tell you.

 

Ultimately as far as long term reliability goes theres just no guarantees with any of this stuff untill X number of folks have put five figure round counts thru them and done comparisons of the results. The sheer practicalities of that mean its not about to happen anytime soon. Until it does the final choice of what parts to buy comes down to your luck and judgement

Edited August 5, 2009 by snorkelman

[FearMeansControl]

I was thinking about swapping the front for something that secures to the upper, making wobble a thing of the past. But are there any good alternatives that uses the original deltaring, and still secures with the upper? The KAC RASII? (http://www.ebairsoft.com/dboys-metal-rasii-p-2039.html), but I have heard the AEG fronts are a just a tad to short for this?

 

I'd like to do something similar... A word on the RAS II though, it eats up a decent amount of room on your receiver's rails. I've got G&P one on an AEG and it doesn't leave enough room for an Aimpoint + 3x Magnifier... The cool thing is that the rail on the bridge between forearm and receiver sets you up for really good co-witness with the front site (if you keep it, that is), but it's not long enough to comfortably mount any sights using two screws on

[catfishsalesco]

got a chance to take a look over the 063 I picked up the other day (the little shorty)

 

I don't suppose you had a chance to chrono it with the stock bcg in? I'm hoping that the short barrel brings the fps down to about 350!