Luis21 Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 could the valve spring brake (the one inside the mag) one of my mag vent its gas while im filling (it has nothing to do with the valve stop) what the function of the small thing in front of my bolt stop It could have been misplaced or even forgotten to be installed at the factory.... Try lubing the valve. When there's no gas and you push it down, does it depress on its own again? -Luis Quote Link to post Share on other sites
teflon don Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 no it doesn't (or very slightly) thats why it think the spring is broken (im going to open it tomorrow just to see ) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Luis21 Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 no it doesn't (or very slightly) thats why it think the spring is broken (im going to open it tomorrow just to see ) Yeah, study the magazine parts map in the manual and pop it open tommorrow just to verify. -Luis Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sacairsoftsn00py Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 So how long will this gun last stock on green gas/propane? just curious It should last more than 2000 rounds with use of 134a or pc duster. Out of the box, the gun shoots over 460 fps with .20g bbs using propane. I heard it shoots around 340 fps with duster. However, with some knowledge about how the system works, you can get a bit more fps out of the gun using duster. You will just have to modify parts. could the valve spring brake (the one inside the mag) one of my mag vent its gas while im filling (it has nothing to do with the valve stop) what the function of the small thing in front of my bolt stop what small thing in front of your bolt stop? if you are talking about a square block thats about 4mm x 4mm, then that block keeps the bolt lock from ripping from the firing block. its what stops the bolt stop from moving farther forward. the spring should not be broken. you just might have a sticky valve. agm valves have been known to have a weak spring.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mutikasha Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 Since you use an M203 don't get it, it will be very cumbersome to deal with it if you have to adjust your hopup a lot. However you can set it once and leave it and it will be fine. Also on the flipside you have to be very patient putting the Prime together since the tolerances are beyond insanely tight. One thing that definitely wont fit inside of it is the G&P hopup rubber. Try the RATech ones instead. Shouldn't the rear adjusted hop unit give me the ability to adjust the amount of hop without taking the M203 off? I'm thinking about those hop units that can be adjusted from inside the receiver without taking the M203 off. What unit's that allow this kind of adjustment can be installed in the AGM? @danielE My nozzle cracked within 200 rounds fired Quote Link to post Share on other sites
teflon don Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 i have founf the problem i bought the gun used (the guy was honest and told me that one mag leaked i thought it was a oring problem) and the guy had opend the valve with pliers and damaged the shaft so it doesn't move as free as it should be the smal thing is 0.5mm by 1mm and it moves inside a 4mm slot i think its a kinda lock Quote Link to post Share on other sites
48thRonin Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 Could some one tell me which length inner barrell i need to fit a Dytac 12" recon outter? I think its 300mm but not too sure. Thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
matt.bee Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 (edited) As part of the 4 hour milling and filing marathon that was fitting a Daniels Defence Mk18 RIS2 (bought 2nd hand without the correct barrel nut), I replaced my Hop unit with the cheapo Chinese steel one. My stock HOP rubber didn't have the hole others are reporting, but the loss of bbs from the barrel has been cured, not so much by the unit replacement, but I realised that even with the hop fully on, there was hardly any contact with the rubber, much less any actual hop! Explains the poor range of it too. I ended up carving a bit of 16g silicon wire shroud to slip over the 'ears' on the adjustment arm, which gives about the right amount of hop for .2s with it wound all the way off, and a little tweak is perfect for .25s. Just the barrel to chop to 10" and my Block 2 CQBR will be complete and ready to be photoed! Edited August 20, 2009 by matt.bee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
snorkelman Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 biggest issue with stock hop rubber is that its as thin as an old rubber glove, hence the lack of contact with the nubs on a lot of them (esp with the masking tape removed). Replace it with a beefier one (ie the RA-T red one) and the nubs usually end up needing reduced rather than enlarged I wouldnt regard the hole any real sort of issue though nice to hear its no longer there, I know some folks regard it as a potential air leak point but if the air was getting between the rubber and the inner barrel then it could just as easily leak out the front if there wasnt a hole in the side Quote Link to post Share on other sites
snorkelman Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 muwahaha!! 20-08-2009 17:30 International Hub En route to delivery depot 20-08-2009 17:26 International Hub Arrived in destination country 18-08-2009 09:37 Delivery Agent - TAIPEI - PTT RAT 3 round burst trigger group has landed ...and skipped past customs so no inspections and fees to slow things down, should have it here tomorrow for fitting and testing Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sacairsoftsn00py Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 matt.bee you can just shave down the lower side of the back part of the adjustment arm. The one thats closest to the adjustment dial and the upper part of the adjustment arm. Also, to have a hop dial that doesnt seem too loose, use some matte finish scotch tape. With that setup, I am able to get my .25g BBs to curve up at the max setting. I would probably have enough hop for .27-.29g BBs to have a flat flight path. I originally started using the G&P hop bucking but it had too much hop for .25g BBs. Without the adjustment arm, I was still getting .25g BBs to curve. Perhaps the RA tech hop buckings are the way to go in this case. Still, I will be using the stock hop bucking for the time being. I'm sure it will hold up just fine with my current setup.. ----------------- I have switched my setup from a high power/low recoil setup to a lower power/some recoil setup because I wanted to be able to skirmish with my AGM M4. None of the fields will allow anyone to play with a gun that shoots 470 FPS with .25g BBs around here. From what I have heard, stock, the AGM M4 shoots around 340 FPS with duster/134a gas. My OEM bolt/loading nozzle has since broken on me and I am now using the Airsoft Surgeon Loadin Nozzle. Actually, I have two in different bolt carriers. AS Bolt Carrier w/ AS Loading Nozzle, Pro-Arms part #4, (modified) WA 1911 Flute Valve & AGM flute valve spring. AGM Bolt Carrier w/ AS Loading Nozzle, (modified) part #4, (modified) flute valve, & (modified) MAG flute valve spring. -modified flute valve spring= cut down spring and placed in front of the flute valve pushing it back (instead of pushing the flute valve forward). here are some pics: AS BGC AGM BCG w/ AS Loading Nozzle I simply sanded down part #4 of the AS Loading Nozzle so more gas flows behind the BB and less gas goes into blowback. Notice the difference between the 2 sets. With duster gas, I can crack the bottom of a Sprite can with the first setup. With the second setup, I can also crack the bottom of a Sprite can. Only thing is that The crack from the sprite can from the second setup is visibly much larger. Without a chrono, I would estimate the first setup to have an output of 360 FPS while the second chucking out 380 FPS with .20g BBs. Also, notice the wear on the surface of the loading nozzle that comes in contact with the rubber seal from the mag (where the gas vents). I believe the wear comes from hitting part of the firing block. I have since sanded down part of my firing block-the part that comes in contact with the bolt catch. So far, no additional wear on the bolt's gas inlet has been noticed. -------------------- Heres another photo of the worn part (this time its off of my old Pro-Arms Loading Nozzle). Check your loading nozzle chaps! You will not want them to get worn down to the point where the magazine rubber does not get a good seal on it. For those wondering, I have probably put through over 3000 rounds through the pro-arms loading nozzle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Luis21 Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 matt.bee you can just shave down the lower side of the back part of the adjustment arm. The one thats closest to the adjustment dial and the upper part of the adjustment arm. Also, to have a hop dial that doesnt seem too loose, use some matte finish scotch tape. With that setup, I am able to get my .25g BBs to curve up at the max setting. I would probably have enough hop for .27-.29g BBs to have a flat flight path. I originally started using the G&P hop bucking but it had too much hop for .25g BBs. Without the adjustment arm, I was still getting .25g BBs to curve. Perhaps the RA tech hop buckings are the way to go in this case. Still, I will be using the stock hop bucking for the time being. I'm sure it will hold up just fine with my current setup.. ----------------- I have switched my setup from a high power/low recoil setup to a lower power/some recoil setup because I wanted to be able to skirmish with my AGM M4. None of the fields will allow anyone to play with a gun that shoots 470 FPS with .25g BBs around here. From what I have heard, stock, the AGM M4 shoots around 340 FPS with duster/134a gas. My OEM bolt/loading nozzle has since broken on me and I am now using the Airsoft Surgeon Loadin Nozzle. Actually, I have two in different bolt carriers. AS Bolt Carrier w/ AS Loading Nozzle, Pro-Arms part #4, (modified) WA 1911 Flute Valve & AGM flute valve spring. AGM Bolt Carrier w/ AS Loading Nozzle, (modified) part #4, (modified) flute valve, & (modified) MAG flute valve spring. -modified flute valve spring= cut down spring and placed in front of the flute valve pushing it back (instead of pushing the flute valve forward). here are some pics: AS BGC AGM BCG w/ AS Loading Nozzle I simply sanded down part #4 of the AS Loading Nozzle so more gas flows behind the BB and less gas goes into blowback. Notice the difference between the 2 sets. With duster gas, I can crack the bottom of a Sprite can with the first setup. With the second setup, I can also crack the bottom of a Sprite can. Only thing is that The crack from the sprite can from the second setup is visibly much larger. Without a chrono, I would estimate the first setup to have an output of 360 FPS while the second chucking out 380 FPS with .20g BBs. Also, notice the wear on the surface of the loading nozzle that comes in contact with the rubber seal from the mag (where the gas vents). I believe the wear comes from hitting part of the firing block. I have since sanded down part of my firing block-the part that comes in contact with the bolt catch. So far, no additional wear on the bolt's gas inlet has been noticed. -------------------- Heres another photo of the worn part (this time its off of my old Pro-Arms Loading Nozzle). Check your loading nozzle chaps! You will not want them to get worn down to the point where the magazine rubber does not get a good seal on it. For those wondering, I have probably put through over 3000 rounds through the pro-arms loading nozzle. Nice photos Snoopy. One thing about your setup though. If you use the stock AGM hop-up chamber then I wouldn't recommend putting the spring in front of the flute valve. When gas goes into the rear blowback chamber, it will push the flute valve forward. The flute valve will push the BBs forward and this could cause BBs to roll out of the barrel even more. The stock setup is meant to have the spring behind the flute valve. If you have a nice hop-up chamber with lots of room inside then reversing the spring is a nice mod. Also, I see that your AS Bolt Carrier has alot of wear on the right side where the bolt catch engages it. Does it still lock back reliably? I'm guessing that the carrier or even the part that engages the bolt catch isn't steel correct? Either way, I'm glad that you found a good setup and we all appreciate you sharing this. Thanks, -Luis Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sacairsoftsn00py Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 (edited) i do not have any issues with my gun shooting...the orientation of the springs for the flute valve is how i want them to be because i get results and no problems from them... my flute valves have been trimmed by the way i had that base covered day since one ( i had done it to the original agm lute valve as well).... the fact that most of the gas exits through the front chamber keeps the flute valve pushed back the springs just pushes them all the way back because the flute valve does not come into contact with the bb...its healthier for the gun especially when dryfiring as only a controlled fraction of the gas goes into the blowback action which means lesser stress on the gun as opposed to the spring holding the flute valve open all the way which means most of the gas goes into the blowback action which leads to a higher likelihood of the bolt/loading nozzle cracking both bolt carrier groups lock back 100% of the time...i should take a video for kicks and giggles... the wear you see is not from the bcg locking back but from the bcg hitting the valve lock on the way forward...normal wear, doesnt affect function whatsoever Edited August 21, 2009 by sacairsoftsn00py Quote Link to post Share on other sites
militaryman7523 Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 i do not have any issues with my gun shooting...the orientation of the springs for the flute valve is how i want them to be because i get results and no problems from them... my flute valves have been trimmed by the way i had that base covered day since one ( i had done it to the original agm lute valve as well).... the fact that most of the gas exits through the front chamber keeps the flute valve pushed back the springs just pushes them all the way back because the flute valve does not come into contact with the bb...its healthier for the gun especially when dryfiring as only a controlled fraction of the gas goes into the blowback action which means lesser stress on the gun as opposed to the spring holding the flute valve open all the way which means most of the gas goes into the blowback action which leads to a higher likelihood of the bolt/loading nozzle cracking both bolt carrier groups lock back 100% of the time...i should take a video for kicks and giggles... the wear you see is not from the bcg locking back but from the bcg hitting the valve lock on the way forward...normal wear, doesnt affect function whatsoever This might sounds like a stupid question, but I thought the spring was also suppose to be in front of the flute valve. Where is it really suppose to be. Thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Luis21 Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 This might sounds like a stupid question, but I thought the spring was also suppose to be in front of the flute valve. Where is it really suppose to be. Thanks It's designed to be behind thflute valve, pushing it forwards. However you can switch it up like Snoopy did to find the best setup that works for you. -Luis Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sacairsoftsn00py Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 This might sounds like a stupid question, but I thought the spring was also suppose to be in front of the flute valve. Where is it really suppose to be. Thanks the original wa m4's had the spring at the back of the flute valve....g&p does not have any spring for the flute valve whatsoever....agm has the spring in front of the flute valve...the flute valve goes through the spring personally, i like having the spring in front of the flute valve as you have more control as to how much gas you are to alot for the blowback depending on how your part #4 is set/modded... like the npas, you can (permanently) adjust the fps and blowback of the gun with cutting here and there or adding material.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
snorkelman Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 RAT three round burst kit only downside is I wont be able to fit it till sunday (too much work on to make time for it till then) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MDK_Marshal Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 That comes with a new selector too? Sweet, I wasn't expecting that! I was thinking it was only going to be the, uh, other parts... In any case, it's nice to see that the selectors are included... maybe now I can get hold of a better one for my AGM Quote Link to post Share on other sites
teflon don Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 whats that large silver thing is that a new forward assist or the extra large mag relaese Quote Link to post Share on other sites
snorkelman Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 aye you can get it with either a conventional selector or with an ambi selector the full auto cam on a normal selector (the bit folks file off if they want to do a semi-only conversion) is in a slightly different place (and wider) than the cam on a burst fire selector which is why you get a new one as part of the set is 160 bucks, buying equiv quality full auto parts (ino or G&P) would be around 125 so its really just 35 more to get burst if you were planning on buying those. Trouble is if you go for mainly chinese parts and arent too fussed about brand names and finish then you can get a half decent steel ambi selector for 7 or 8 bucks, a decent steel hammer for 14, a steel sear for 10 and steel (ino) trigger for 32 Which is grand total of 64, making it almost 100 more expensive to get 3 round burst compared with settling for those @td - silver thing looks like its just a little drift to push the old selector lever out with Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MDK_Marshal Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 It's used to push the mag release in so that you can remove it. I suppose RA-Tech assumes that noboy who will buy a burst kit will own, well, any form of stick. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
snorkelman Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 It's used to push the mag release in so that you can remove it. I suppose RA-Tech assumes that noboy who will buy a burst kit will own, well, any form of stick. Well spotted, gotta admit I never bother pushing mag buttons fully in, I tend to just push them enough to let me grab hlod of the mag catch side and pull the catch out far enough to clear the bolt catch as Im unscrewing it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
snorkelman Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 (edited) took 5 mins out to fit it fit is fine - trigger, selector and hammer lock go in as usual Only thing worth noting on trigger fitting is that the new trigger is supplied with a little short pin prefitted thru it to hold the sears in place. Leave that in place as yo fit trigger into the lower receiver (as you push the trigger axis pin thru the receiver to pin trigger in place the axis pin ejects the short 'fitting' pin out other side of the lower) Hammer is slightly different procedure from a full auto set up - it needs the firing block removed to allow it to fit, as theres now a tall extra forward sear on trigger and a burst mode multi faced ratchet sear on the side of the hammer itself. Presence of that tall trigger sear means that the hammer has to be fitted into the receiver at a 45 degree angle (from front feeding it in towards the rear) in order to allow the burst ratchet sear on the new hammer to clear that new tall trigger sear (whereas the original full auto hammer is a straight drop down fit into the lower) Once hammer is fitted and its axis pin fitted thru it and the lower receiver you can then refit the firing block as normal. Once assembled it all functions fine - all modes I tested manually on stripped lower (with me tripping the auto sear each time I cocked the hammer in burst mode to mimic the carrier riding back into battery tripping it as it would when gun is fired) Safe can be selected when hammer is cocked semi catches hammer after one shot burst mode the auto hammer lock catches hammer as usual after first shot, I release the lock hammer goes forward for second shot, hammer lock catches it on coking hammer after second shot, I release the lock again and hammer is dropped for third shot. On recocking hammer for third time autolock catches it again on its return. Trip the hammer lock after that third shot and voila - the burst fire sears catch the hammer preventing a fourth shot. Release the trigger and mechanism resets Interrupted burst - note that if you were to be fast enough at feathering the trigger before a 3round burst completes then the next burst will only be what's left of that interupted burst ie if you manage to squeeze just one shot off before releasing the trigger? then you'll get the two shots of that interupted burst on next burst fire trigger pull not 3 rounds. Likewise if you fire two rounds and release trigger, then you'll get the third shot of that interupted burst on its own on next trigger pull potential AGM issue - the AGM has the hardest hammer spring of all the WA clones, it also has the tightest loop around rear of hammer which holds the AGM hammer furthest forward in its fired state. As a result you cant insert a mag into an AGM unless its already cocked (or the fully forwards firing pin will interfere with mag valve on mag thats being inserted). The new spring for the burst hammer is wider - it has to be to clear the triggers forward sear that sits along side the hammer (rather than stock WA hammer springs on G&P WA Ino and AGM that only have to be wide enough to clear the hammer itself) As well as that extra width the loop at rear of the new hammer spring sits far further back behind the hammer, alowing the hammer to rest after firing in a far more angled back position than the AGM hammer spring allows. As a result you cant swap the new spring for the AGM one (its not wide enough). Now on plus side that design of hammer spring that has its loop sitting further behind the hammer means you shouldnt have to cock the gun before inserting a mag (mag valve will be able to push the firing pin back out of its way) but it means that the force that the firing pin strikes the mags gas release valve is gong to be same as on any other WA or WA clone. Now wether thats enough to reliably operate an AGM mag valve that expects a strong blow from firing pin remains to be seen - I think a few folks who tried AGM mags were complaining that their WAs werent getting on well trying to strike an AGM valve when running their stock WA hammer spring? I've got an AGM mag knocking around so I'll see if I can pick up some more gas over the weekend and give it a live fire try-out Failing that I'll snag some and try it on monday General fit and finish finish on parts is the really black finish found on inokatsu parts (rather than the dark grey parkerized finish on G&P mag catch). If yuo look really closely you can spot machining marks on the flat surfaces of the fire selector but nowhere near as pronounced as on the Ino equivalent part Fire selection is very positive, takes nice amount of effort to switch between modes and theres absolutely no trigger slack (or selector movement) when you pull hard on the trigger in safe. worth buying? If you want proper mechanical three round burst then aye, its spendy but well made Now if I can snag one of the proper real steel remakes of the XM607 sliding stock and furniture kit thats available in the states I can put an XM607B together using that and a prime M16 receiver kit, just need to ask the folks at RA-T if they can do me a bolt carrier without any forward assist notches etc machined on it to complete the retro look Edited August 22, 2009 by snorkelman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sacairsoftsn00py Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 hmmm...maybe there will be a 5ku version in a month or so... if only it was full auto that got replaced by the burst feature...full auto is pretty useless with the cool down issue...semi is probably the most useable feature...burst would be used as a convenience thing... thanks for the low down on the burst trigger mech snorkelman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Luis21 Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 Anyone here have extensive photos of an RA-Tech NPAS complete BCG? The $260 version? I want to see some good, detailed photos of one before I buy it. I'd really appreciate it. By the way, nice trigger kit Snorkel. Not a big fan of a burst option but that trigger set is indeed a nice quality piece. Thanks, -Luis Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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