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HIGH POWER!


The Chef

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USA

full auto aeg -400/ 20ft min below 340 0 ft min

semi auto (must be modded cannot be able to go full auto)/bolt action-570fps/ past 450fps 100ft min

 

My rifle shoots 615 I use it for skermishing. I am a tad bit over the limit but since I've been running it for over 4 years now. It's just kind of accepted that I'm responsible enough to run a rifle that hot. Even though the rules state I could shoot someone at 100ft I'd never shoot someone close than 130ft.

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TBH, I don't think heavier BBs should be a big deal for a sniper or (more importantly) their target.

 

I was once hit by a string of BBs fired from a stock (1.5J) G&G L85. The player was using 0.3g BBs to get the gun through the chrono.

It hurt like hell, I can tell you.

 

Thing is, due to energy bleed, a BB fired from a 500fps gun is doing 300fps after only a few metres.

If you're using a half-decent MED then your target should really only ever feel the same sort of impact as they'd feel from an AEG that was about 15m closer.

 

I must admit, I often consider trying to tune my gun to shoot 0.25g BBs over a longer distance but, as others have said already, I think snipers are really restricted in their choices by a combination of power, hop-up and ammo.

I'm not sure a lot of players (aside from snipers) really understand that your ammo is a variable which needs to be considered as much as any other feature of your gun.

My gun (a Warrior L96) is currently fitted with a very soft AEG hop-up bucking (I gave up on fishbone or H buckings cos they were too sensitive) and, even so, it's really only happy with 0.36g BBs.

 

I have a 1.3J bolt and a 3J bolt for my gun. It's interesting to see how much less hop is required, with a lower weight BB, when using the low-power bolt.

There probably would be some mileage in selecting a weight of BB and then deliberately tuning the power (ideally with a Tanaka L96 or similar) and trying a selection of hop-up buckings until you can get that weight of BB to fly straight.

I suspect that, even with a soft bucking, summat like 400fps is the optimum velocity for a 0.25g BB.

 

Anyway, bottom line is that I think a lot of us are forced into using heavier ammo (and, thus, reducing our range) because our hop-ups aren't delicate enough for ligher BBs at high velocities.

Or, maybe if I had a VSR10 I'd think that was nonsense. ;)

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i found that a TM improved bucking in my vsr with an edgi 6.00mm barrel will only manage 0.36g bb's before you have to start lobbing the heavier ones.

 

even on 0.36g it wont do its full potential.

 

i do have a firefly hard rubber to test but i need to get to a chrono (a pro chrono as my vsr has a big silencer that stops me lining up to normal chronos very well).

 

with 0.30g i need the hop just set to 1/2 to get excellent range (70meters) but with black ammo you loose sight after 40m unless its really bright and reflects the sun back off the round.

 

With my L96 i find the hop fluctuates so much, i think the screw vibrates after every shot (even when loc-tited). i have yet to experiment with other barrels and hop units in that.

 

EDIT:

 

powers

 

TM vsr - 525fps (can be lowered by the CO2 regulator currently i think its in excess of 600+ due to installling a 6.00mm barrel and previously having a 6.04?? maybe 6.08 barrel i have turned her down but i doubt i have enough, thats why i need to get to the chrono before using the new bucking)

 

maruzen type 96 - 450fps

 

 

EDIT 2:

 

im currently in the process of making an paintball tank conversion for the vsr so i can run big bottles or just the 12g caplets

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There probably would be some mileage in selecting a weight of BB and then deliberately tuning the power (ideally with a Tanaka L96 or similar) and trying a selection of hop-up buckings until you can get that weight of BB to fly straight.

I suspect that, even with a soft bucking, summat like 400fps is the optimum velocity for a 0.25g BB.

 

IIRC one of our American cousins stated, I believe it was in the SASS Thread, that he had it under good authority that the ideal fps for any given weight of BB was 380ish, again iirc, so if your like me and restricted to 350 site limits your stuffed from the start :rolleyes: but I find I get good results from Guarder .28s at that power, (and I do mean 350fps if the chrono reads 351 even once its back in the boot of the car and another gun for you :waggle: ) I would use SGMs but there are way to many white trainer types that play from week to week to justify waisting expensive ammo...rant over back on topic ;) , and I find witha Nineball rubber the hop setting needs only be increased a little more than if I run at 500 fps to maintain maximum range for the, limited, power.

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Here in Finland, in most of the games we have limits as follows:

 

Full auto 1,6J

Semi auto 2,25J

Bolt action 3J

 

All limits measured with the BB used in the weapon. That is because the energy can vary a lot between different BB weights (e.g. my T96 chroned below 3J with 0,2g but 3,7J with 0,43g.)

Usually we don't have any precisely given MED's, it is up to the user to decide what is safe.

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Full auto and semi auto: Max 3 Joule

Bolt action: Max 10 Joule.

 

That's the legal limit, limits in game depends on the site, some don't allow over 200m/s, some do.

The MED depends on how powerful the rifle is.

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That's incredibly trusting! How do you find it works? Many problems or do people just get on with it?

 

 

one of the sites i go to does that too, if there are a few regulars there and no one else they make the mind up if its safe. if there are loads there its usually 20m

 

20m is a good distance, (been shot at that range with a 500fps barrett and it didnt sting that much)

 

---------

 

also 10J bolt action is damn high (500 - 550fps is enough i feel)

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Greg, Don't get me wrong, I'll take a 'bang kill' if one is issued. But I don't expect it. It's more that I am happy to be shot up close and personal and don't want people to feel bad if they do.

I'm exactly the same.

 

 

Greg.

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Don't think you can get a 10J spring bolt sniper, thats about 1200fps w/.2.....might be doable on a gas rig but dayum.

 

I do recall one of the US forums having a chappy than ran an APS around 1000fps with a complete set of titanium gunsmith-made internals but his MED was 150m or so. Longest recorded kill was something like 200m at night with a Gen 2+ scope on :lol:

 

I can't see a need for it personally - just because its legal doesn't mean you should do it unless you're sticking to rules as per above.

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I do recall one of the US forums having a chappy than ran an APS around 1000fps with a complete set of titanium gunsmith-made internals but his MED was 150m or so. Longest recorded kill was something like 200m at night with a Gen 2+ scope on :lol:

 

I can't see a need for it personally - just because its legal doesn't mean you should do it unless you're sticking to rules as per above.

 

i can understand this myself.

 

im not saying i see the need for it, but "in real life" a sniper rifle will have far greater range than an assault rifle, so i can see the comparison for airsoft, and i personally would like to see this replicated more accurately. especially with some sites stating a 378 fps for AEG/500 fps for sniping. its not a massive difference...

 

on the other hand, this would need strict regulation, as that sort of power WILL put holes in people at closer ranges, so is not at all practical for everyday scenarios.

 

this is not even broaching the subject of reliability of parts... hop rubbers will last maybe a days' skirmish at this power for example... not mentioning the legallity either.

 

i fully expect to get flamed for what ive said, but it would be nice to see a more realistic range comparrison in games sometimes. maybe this is for private games?

 

also, i know fieldcraft will get one close enough for a kill, so you may not need the advantage of so much power, but its an opinion i have on the matter. not definitive, and not for all scenarios/people.

 

IM NOT SAYING MASSIVE POWER IS THE BE ALL AND END ALL OF SNIPING! and im not looking for a fight here!

 

cheers,

 

shmook

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I'd love to be able to use a 550-600fps rifle if the AEG's were running at 370 for the sake of argument but even while I am more than usually careful about the safety aspect its not the sort of thing you could do at just any site with walk-on players involved - its already been proven that some people just aren't trustworthy with higher powered rifles.

 

 

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Agreed.

 

Although increases like that can easily lead to imbalance in the game. Giving an AEG a 20fps increase will have little effect on its range or accuracy, but giving a bolt action a 100fps increase certainly will.

 

Much like the craze for "DMR" weapons. Prehaps its just me, but I can easily get full auto out of any gun on semi by just repeatedly pumping the trigger. Then effectively you've got guys with 350 AEG's and guys with 400 AEG's. That doesn't really lead to a good game balance.

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Also true.

 

Any decent combination of hi-torque gears/motors/powerful batteries does give a DMR AEG a huge edge (which is why I use 15 round mags in my MSG :) ) if abused. I really like the idea of using a MOSFET to delay the trigger actuation to one per second or less to counteract that advantage but yes, the point about the ever-increasing arms race is well made dude.

 

 

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if you wanted a further range compared to AEGs, then perhaps on like a milsim day the AEGs turn their hopup down. not completely off, just so it doesnt over hop/ only just underhops.

 

then again no one would do this...

 

 

im in favour of longer ranges for snipers, but as discussed the MED would have to be stupid, and then you would need to 100% carry an aeg as a back up to cover the medium range area.

 

or a drag bag with a 350fps boltaction rifle in it.

 

 

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i think this is the current problem with our sport, its always been there but in the past few years has got alot worse. everyone is power mad.

less and less players use anyskill nowadays and just rely on power.

i couldnt count the amount of players that ask me to help them upgrade the snipers to 500fps or advise on it...i now refuse to help them unless i think they have some skill or i have know them along time, i just tell them to work on field craft first.

its the same with aegs aswell though, again so many players want there guns upgraded before even using them, or try and find ACM guns that run powerfull or even hot and think this is fine.

 

recently ive gone so far as to show players that fps isnt needed, i will pick up an abused hire gun which cronos in at around 280fps and tear them apart with this,.

i even went as far as finding a gun that cronoed at 240fps,and still managed to get more kills than most the players in that game. i just needed to get very close to do so.

whats even more fun is getting a tm high grade springer (they do shoot about 30m or more easily)and using only that with my ghillie,the geardos take a real huff when shot by that.

me and one of the marshals love to get the springers out when possible.

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Another good comment - the problem with an arms race is that people need to want to stop it and quite simply they don't.

 

When UA first started we used stock Marui's pretty much across the board and never had problems with range of effectiveness if we used the same gun in woodland and not because there were loads of amazing players - its just that Airsoft is a game of numbers and as with everything else in life people associate larger numbers with better...but without taking into account player ability.

 

As snipers in Airsoft a lot of the games on the majority of sites simply do not allow you to play exactly as a real sniper would, so you're essentially crawling into position and shooting stuff. As the onus is on engaging targets you (the general you as in the majority of snipers) don't worry about putting in OP's, or reporting back movements/gathering intel - you simply worry about tagging people and that means for the most part taking a heavily upgraded bolt action or AEG.

 

Some of the best games I've played as a sniper were with my stock M14 and a radio when we made a difference through being able to direct our team to take advantage of shifting tactical scenarios but that was with a longer game in the afternoon (4hrs or so) and of course not everyone plays at sites where that happens.

 

That said, if I took the rifle I most felt was fitting to shorter games I wouldn't use anything but a DMR because it has all the advantages for shorter, faster gameplay and then we're back to the comparison of a DMR-level AEG versus a more standard "field" AEG....

 

*sigh*

 

I don't think theres an answer per se - just keep a couple of rifles so you can tailor your style to the site and its approach on games which sadly means that as hotter and hotter AEG's are allowed in order to maintain parity theres definately a feeling from some players that more powerful sniper rifles is the way to go.

 

They're fun, but they're really not needed.

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I'm a far mrs effective player when I play with my ptw, using it as a DMR, it's just a pitty that I like using the bolt action quite a bit more. I think it should be a mandatory thing for airsoft snipers to be more cohesive on the field, rather than going it alone and leaving your fellow players in the dark sometimes.

 

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I'm a far mrs effective player when I play with my ptw

 

Do you carry the PTW mags in your tactical handbag, then? :D

 

I think you're right about the snipers going off on their own thing.

 

I tend to sometimes forget Airsoft is essentially a team game - I can get far more kills out on my own. I've tried DMR with a bolt action a few times, but it's harder to do properly.

 

I might give it another go, see what it's like.

 

Ben.

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They're fun, but they're really not needed.

 

Tis true, especialy when your limited to the same power as the AEGs, as some of us are, you just have to keep on top of your shizzle a bit more ;)

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Do you carry the PTW mags in your tactical handbag, then? :D

 

I think you're right about the snipers going off on their own thing.

 

I tend to sometimes forget Airsoft is essentially a team game - I can get far more kills out on my own. I've tried DMR with a bolt action a few times, but it's harder to do properly.

 

I might give it another go, see what it's like.

 

Ben.

 

I'd not call my Chanel hanbag tactical by any means! As a matter of fact, I use a 15 quid, really rough arktis chest rig!

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