Inq Eisenhorn Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 Well, I wish I could say I'm surprised.....but I'm not, and I guess everyone who had their doubts about WE as a manufacturer are thinking the same way. I totally agree with Giqueand's statement above..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Korppi Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 Hehe, if they make the bolt from hq steel it would fubar rest of the interior .p Metal vs metal parts should be of same material/strenght or the other gets chewed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kai_Wolf Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 Man Jin, sorry to hear about the bolt stop. Heres hoping Airsoft Buddy will send you the part. ALSO, I meant to ask, where is everyone buying their's from? AB or WGC? Just from what WGC is claiming, they seem to be a bit different (FPS wise). Also, I am not sure if Airsoft Buddy would send me a replacement part if I ended up buying from WGC instead of them. I was quoted 423 at WGC including shipping. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jin15 Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 This just gets better and better (warning : contains awful shaky camera work and some adult language) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdncAheQva8 And for those wondering, if I attempted to fire the gun with the bolt stop in it's current condition (if the magazine would hold gas for more than 10 seconds that is) the gun would fire 1 round and then the bolt jams up completely and the only way to un-jam it is to remove the rear takedown pin on the receiver and separate the upper from the lower receiver to un-jam the bolt. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
xx-treme Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 I wonder if a RS AR-15 bolt stop would work? I don't know enough about the internals of the AR-15 or the WE M4 to know if that is ridiculous or not... It will not fit on the WE, dont know about the WA. Here is the difference: WE bolt stop: ar 15 bolt stop: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BigAl Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 At this point we can't be sure if this bolt stop failure is the exception or the rule yet, though. Have a nasty feeling we all know the answer to that but don't want to believe it. What is the bolt and the bolt stop made of? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris North Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 I'm still pretty optimistic. I do hope this turns out to be really great, but TBH I'm looking toward the RA-Tech AKSU more anyway. Only time and experience will tell the truth, I guess. And for those wondering, if I attempted to fire the gun with the bolt stop in it's current condition (if the magazine would hold gas for more than 10 seconds that is) the gun would fire 1 round and then the bolt jams up completely and the only way to un-jam it is to remove the rear takedown pin on the receiver and separate the upper from the lower receiver to un-jam the bolt. (Can't watch the video ATM) So you can't get around the problem at all by use that bolt stop disable feature? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BigAl Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 (if the magazine would hold gas for more than 10 seconds that is) The mags started playing up aswell? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
m98man Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 (edited) Jin, I don't want to rain on the problem parade but you can be quoted as saying you've been dropping the magazine repeatedly on the hard floor... It probably knocked the fill valve out of whack. Edited November 12, 2008 by m98man Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jin15 Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 (edited) True, although my floor is thickly carpeted and not hard, my magazine's fill valve is now FUBAR'd. It's not leaking from around the sides, the center fill point of the valve is what's actually not sealing and now the magazine will not hold any gas period. So within the first 500 rounds of use the bolt stop is broken and the magazine is completely useless until WE releases replacement fill valves for it. Airsoft Buddy, I don't suppose you do returns/refunds do you? Edit: Nevermind, just checked Airsoft Buddy's web page and it looks like they do not take returns on defective guns. Looks like I'm stuck with it unless anyone wants to buy a new WE M4 with a broken bolt stop and defective magazine fill valve for say $400 or so. Edited November 12, 2008 by Jin15 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
3vi1-D4n Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 What I would do is take an old fill valve from some junk/broken GBB mags and swap out the central nozzle. Else you can buy replacement valves I am sure from somewhere, I have seen them. I will be getting one soon so I will take a good look at the bolt stop. I have been able to reshape the old KSC and Marui bolt stops to prevent wearing on the plastic slides perhaps I could do the same to this? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Magsz Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 Man, some people here really need to not give in to impulse buying and then the "new car" syndrome... Im pretty sure alot of other people ran out and purchased one of these based on the feedback here. I think everyone needs to calm down a little bit and allow the early adopters to put their guns through some trials. So far we have TWO owners on here with COMPLETELY different experiences. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lt.Fenix Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 Jin, I know you're ###### because your expectations have been completely reversed in such a short amount of time... but you have to stay calm :-p. Chances are, WE used the same fill valve as their other guns, so if you happen to have any WE pistol mags laying around, you could try one of those. And of course like someone pointed out, you did drop your mag several times from the sound of it.. so you can't really go and blame WE for that one. About the bolt catch, I can't really tell from the pictures, but can you tell what color the metal looks like? If it has a slight blue tint, most likely it's zinc or zinc alloy. And if it's not, it could be that you got a defective gun. Also you could look for small bubbles in it if it was a cast part. I seriously doubt that a weak bolt catch was put into production guns without anyone noticing it up to this point. Also, we can wait and see what other people say about theirs'. This could also give us some insight on whether or not yours was simply defective. And if it does turn out to be a defect, then I guess I don't know what you should do... hope that Airsoft Buddy provides you with a replacement part? Or wait until another company produces a reinforced one... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BigAl Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 Will the gun function if you remove the bolt catch? Assunimg you can fix your mag. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
farrasdevell Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 without the bolt stop one assumes that you can continue to hold the trigger and vent gas once you are out of bb's in the mag? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jin15 Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 (edited) You're right Lt.Fenix, I probably did over react a bit... but it's always so disappointing when you spend half a grand on something only to have it be rendered completely un-usable within the first few hours of use. So I walked away from it for a while, smoked a few cigarettes, pondered quitting airsoft entirely because nothing ever seems to work properly in this industry, ate some dinner, and then came back to it. After 6 or 7 more attempts at filling the mag with gas it magically started working again and the mag has held gas properly on the half a dozen or so gas fills I've done since then. That doesn't resolve the very disappointing broken bolt stop, but at least I can shoot my new toy again now... and man is it ever fun to shoot I'm gonna have to contact Airsoft Buddy about a replacement bolt stop later but for now I'm just relieved that the gun is still working for the most part. And yes, you can still shoot it without the bolt stop. Everything works except the bolt does not lock back when the mag is empty, it just dry fires like an AEG would. If the broken bolt stop does turn out to be a common problem I'm sure some after market company will release a high quality steel bolt stop that matches the strength of the bolt before too long for $20 or $30 or so. Edited November 13, 2008 by Jin15 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thepunisher Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 I think one of the perks that WE M4 has is there's a mode to disable the bolt-catch function, so you can still shoot without bb in the mag. It's located somewhere in the mag (if I remember correctly from one of the videos). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
xx-treme Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 I have put approx 6-700 rounds through my WE now and my bolt stop is still operational, and from what I can see there is no massive wear on it. It seems to me that the point where the bolt hits the bolt-stop is reinforced of some kind, but if the rest of it is not I guess something will bend sooner or later. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
3vi1-D4n Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 (edited) Jin: Yeah a broken gun can do that to you definately. Like the CA249 I have, still sounds like a sewing machine with a scratching noise, nothing seems to be wrong except it seems the motor cage is misaligning and slowly eating pinion gears. That and it didn't feed properly or had an airseal issue or a broken nozzle (with no replacement), which was either one of the 3 issues (you fix one, the other one came up). You would have thought an AEG at $1000USD you would be getting something that works. So yeah just hang in there. I have a walk in cupboard full of guns, and they work. It helps to have that confidence in hobby knowing all my guns I work on myself, and nothing I don't know inside out. Edited November 13, 2008 by 3vi1-D4n Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jin15 Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 For those who are curious about disabling the bolt stop on the magazine here's how it works. (apologies in advance for the poor quality pics) When the switch on the top of the mag is pressed forward the little nub on top of the mag pops up and the bolt cash is enabled, to lock the bolt back when the mag runs out of BBs. If you pull the switch backwards the little nub recesses into the mag and the bolt catch is now disabled. Another nifty thing about the mag is that it is compatible with Magpul PTS Ranger baseplates! Just remove the stock baseplate and slide on the Ranger plate. The baseplate is just friction fitted on (since there's no place for a screw to lock it down, the gas fill valve is where the screw hole to lock down the baseplate would normally be) but it does seem very secure and I wouldn't worry about it coming off in a skirmish. Also, I took my dremel tool and drilled out the screw hole in the Magpul Ranger plate a bit wider so I can fill the mag with gas through the hole the plate locking screw normally goes through I've filled and emptied the mag half a dozen more times since my last post and only once did it vent gas when I filled it, all the other times it held gas fine. So at this point I think the mag is overall pretty solidly constructed, but the fill valve may be very temperamental about holding gas. The only other odd thing I've had happen quite a few times so far is that sometimes when you rack the charging handle to cock the gun and then insert the mag, when you pull the trigger all you'll hear is "click" and nothing happens. What's going on here is that sometimes when you rack the bolt it does not fully cock the hammer to the very end of it's stroke and therefore the firing pin does not get cocked back. The solution to this is to drop the mag, rack the charging handle and hold it back, then while you're holding the charging handle back reach a finger up inside the magwell and press back on the firing pin in the rear of the magwell until you hear it "click" into place. At that point you can release the charging handle, insert your mag, and you're ready to fire. While this only seems to happen once out of every 8 or 10 mags or so it is something worth knowing about. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
UrPeaceKeeper Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 (edited) Interesting developments being pointed out here. It would appear WE has done what WA did with their bolt stop in the multi metal versions. This is disappointing, but then again so is not having a real steel type bolt catch. Honestly whats the big deal with putting in a real bolt catch?! I understand there are some parts that need to touch the mag at the back but enough to replace a better designed bolt catch?! Ohh well this is still on my to buy list. I will most likely take the mags to a gas gun expert and have them work out any leaky mag issues before they start leaking. So far it is very interesting to see how stuff goes and it may be worth waiting for a new bolt stop to be released by some other company before purchasing! Thanks for posting up Jin and the others who own one! Keep us informed! Edited November 13, 2008 by UrPeaceKeeper Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 Another nifty thing about the mag is that it is compatible with Magpul PTS Ranger baseplates! Just remove the stock baseplate and slide on the Ranger plate. Now that... is bad-*albatross*. The fact that WA's mags couldn't use Magpul Ranger Plates always bugged me. Glad to see that the WE is getting put through it's paces. After being a WA guinea pig... I had no desire to be one for the WE. Jin, as far as AirsoftBuddy's website stating that there are no returns, don't forget that he did say that he will provide support for parts, maintenance and tech support on all WE GBB M4s sold through him: For anyone who received the WE GBB M4 from us, please let me know when you have any problems on it. We'll fully support for parts maintenance and technical support. I think your bolt stop failing after only 6-700 rounds definitely falls into that category. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jin15 Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 Yeah, I already sent an email to Airsoft Buddy about the bolt stop and I'm waiting to hear back from him. Hopefully he'll be willing to replace it at no charge. Just to consolidate the past 3 pages worth of info, here's a short list of the problems I've had with the WE M4 so far... 1) Bolt stop broke with less than 500 rounds shot through it. 2) Gun does not feed reliably on 134a gas (lots of "no-feed" shots and some jams) so I've had to use green gas or propane only. 3) The mag was very leaky from the top valve right out of the box. A few sprays of silicone oil and a few fills of green gas fixed this problem though. 4) The fill valve on the bottom of the magazine is very finicky. The stem in the valve can get stuck and when that happens it will not hold gas, it just spews it right back out the fill valve as soon as you stop filling. This problem seems to come and go... sometimes the mag will hold gas fine when you fill it, other times it will not. 5) Once every 8 to 10 mags when I rack the charging handle and insert a fresh mag I'll pull the trigger and just hear a "click", no firing. This is because sometimes when you cock the gun it doesn't fully cock the hammer assembly and the firing pin doesn't get pulled back. To remedy this pull the charging handle all the way back and hold it back while reaching up inside the mag well and pushing the firing pin back until it "clicks" in place. After that you can insert your mag and shoot as normal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sadman Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 (edited) I hope this isn't against the rules, but here is a couple of reference photos of a bolt catch. (From my RS AR15) It doesn't look quite the same as the WA one and I don't think you could make it work either.. *edit* just realized someone else posted up while I took pics, sorry about double post. Edited November 13, 2008 by sadman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
slu Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 Again, thanks for all the updates. I hope AB can get that bolt stop taken care of, and hopefully an aftermarket won't take too long to develop. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.