Eliminator Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Green gas here in France(I assume it's the same for all of us)is mixed in that way: contents: CHz FCF3 CH1 Purity: 99.7% Water content: 0.005% Acid content: 0.0001% Silicon Old content: 1.8%. A real AR-15 stock is mounted on my M4 and I use the provided buffer with the WE spring. The RS buffer is like TSC's (counter-weighted) and the recoil is increased, but not at 70%. I just feel better the recoil and the gun visibly jerks backward(but maximaly 50% more than the stock buffer). I can't tell about the TSC one since I don't own it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WETTI Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 here's the 'top/green gas' spec. we use here... any chemists here to verify if this is 'propane' ??? Â Quote Link to post Share on other sites
slu Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 (edited) hmmm... I'm even more confused now...we simply do not have any 'big can' of Top/Green gas here (just one size), nor do we have any sort of 'adaptor' for use with these... are those 'propane cans' you mentioned refillable? Â I'm no chemist so I can't decipher that recipe up there, and am not even sure what CHz might mean. Â Well, like everyone's been saying, Green Gas is just propane with some lubricants mixed in and then packaged and marketed to the airsoft crowd. In terms of performance, it's the same thing as propane, it just lubricates as it goes since most of the formulations have silicon oil in it. Â Propane is propane, but of course when sold, has some other stuff in it too. We do have big propane bottles here, I guess it's a very American thing maybe, I don't know if you've ever seen King of the Hill. Normally used to fuel gas stoves or lamps even, but, with an adaptor, can be used to charge airsoft magazines. Â I've never actually used store-bought propane for airsoft propellant, but I'd imagine you'd go for one of the smaller sizes, like those 1lb propane canisters for lamps, or maybe a 5lb canister. Edited March 26, 2009 by slu Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eliminator Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 I use the same bottle Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shriven Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 (edited) It has been proven by spectrometer. Green/Top gas is propane with aromatics and silicone, and sold at nearly twice the price for airsoft companies to make lots of money. Google search Propane, and Ai Propane Adaptor. I use Rothenberg propane and the Ai Propane Adaptor. Edited March 26, 2009 by Shriven Quote Link to post Share on other sites
slu Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 It has been proven by spectrometer. Green/Top gas is propane with aromatics and silicone, and sold at nearly twice the price for airsoft companies to make lots of money. Google search Propane, and Ai Propane Adaptor. Â I use Rothenberg propane and the Ai Propane Adaptor. Â That looks like a 1lb container? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Victory Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Propane Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propane Airsoft Innovations: http://www.airsoft-innovations.com/GunGas.html  Hope this helps.  -Vic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WETTI Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 It has been proven by spectrometer. Green/Top gas is propane with aromatics and silicone, and sold at nearly twice the price for airsoft companies to make lots of money. Google search Propane, and Ai Propane Adaptor. I use Rothenberg propane and the Ai Propane Adaptor. Â I did checked, thanks!! Â But I'd also just called up a few personal friends who's been in the industry for a long time (since the days of gas-powered JAC system in the 80's). Something very interesting they pointed out: Even for the supposedly 'one-time' bottle I just posted above, there're 'refills' sold as new by 'tricky' merchants!! These 'refills' has much lower pressure & 'wetter' than the original. Using these 'refills' would results in inconsistency & excessive vaporization effect. Â Now with the 'big can' you posted here, neither I, nor my friends, has enough experience/knowledge with it to comment on it. I'll have to take you words for it. Â All-in-all, with regard to our platform, if you run it on the type of gas I shown in my previous post, then there should be no issue at all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
redline Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Hi WETTI, I don't know whether they have them in HK, but if you guys have a camping store, they usualy sell the cans of propane. They are manily used for portable barbeque sets or portable grills when you go camping. Â Â Quote Link to post Share on other sites
xerxes Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 (edited) I prefer to run on propane as opposed to 'Airsoft brand' green gas due to the WE pouring lubricant out of ever port and seam when used with the latter. Â Straight propane gives me the same power on a chrono as the three other brands of green gas I've tested, the same wear on parts but less lubricant screwing up my hop and spraying on my face, and is a lot cheaper. Â EDIT: Madbull make a very good, very cheap, very robust metal propane adapter as well. Edited March 26, 2009 by xerxes Quote Link to post Share on other sites
redline Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Thats the floating valve sticking - or for some, breaking. If it doesnt seal off, the gas charge cant develop enough pressure to blow the bolt back.  If it doesnt blow the bolt back, the firing pin doesnt get drawn back after the initial "tap" on the mag valve.  If the firing pin doesnt get drawn back, it stays pressed against the mag valve, and "PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT" in one big gaseous cloud.  Thanks ROttenotto. By floating gas valve, are talking about the one in the mag? (THe one that is triggered by the trigger pin?) If so, this makes sense, since I noticed, this tends to happen with only one mag... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobbcore11 Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 I can't wait to get my hands on the new hop-up.. What is the issue that is preventing its release ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
redline Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 hm, just a thought, would it be useful to put to stabilizer in there? Looks like there's enough space for a second. Â The problem with a second stabilizer, is that it would cover the tiny holes or ports you see on the black tube...I'm guessing this is where most of the silicone comes out off and blasts you in the face..I could be wrong though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
alston251 Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Guys there aren't many camping stores in Hong Kong simply because there isn't a lot of people who camp neither is there space for it so the selling propane thing kinda dies...... But canned stove propane is sold but at a higher price i think. Not sure though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
redline Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Yes. But I am not sure how long it will last. Material is quite soft. Â Â Net Ronin, thanks for the pics. You know how its shaped like a cylinder, with the 2 sides shaved off say the have straight walls? Where are the straight edges? Did you install them facing east/west in the bolt carrier or north/south? Yeah this sounds kinda confusing...thought I'd ask anyways. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
redline Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Seriously, somebody complains on an internetforum about a product and the Retailer signes up and responses to those complaints one day later? How frickin cool is that?   EXACTLY! I know I'm complaining about my WE alot, but the one thing I've always endorsed was their customer support. Which to me, is THE MOST IMPORTANT thing. It might not really matter to some folks, but for me, its very, very reassuring. So thank you WETTI and TS-1!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Chef Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 (edited) For WETTI: Propane (C3H8 to give its chemical formula) is a natural gas. Â Green Gas/Top Gas tend to be made up of Propane, Silicone (usually between 0.5-2%, used a lubricant) and some aromatics, so you can smell any leaks. Â They are proven to be one and the same thing. So when we talk about Propane, assume we mean Green Gas (but without the lube). Â Â Â Â My point was, TS-One claimed they have tested their products to withstand Green/Top Gas (propane) and claim to have increased recoil on their new recoil buffer when using Green/Top. Â Customers on this very thread, using propane (green/top) have recorded no such result and a very minimal increase in recoil if any at all, and as such have been disappointed by their purchase. So in the eyes of the Consumer, this puts the claims of TS-One in doubt. Â TS-One then go on to say that using a higher powered gas is not recommended (I assume they assumed propane (green/top) was more powerful, which we know it isn't) to use the M4. Â BUT...... and here's the rub.... Â WE are releasing CO2 magazines, which is DEFINITELY more powerful than propane/green/top..... Â ERGO..... Â TS-One state their products are not to be used with a higher power gas than propane/green/top, so therefore their products are not tested to work with the new CO2 capability of the WE M4. Â that was all that I was trying to get across. Â Â But that said, the whole concept of increased manufacturer/consumer dialogue is tremendous and you all deserve to be a major success on that fact alone. Â Edited for clarification of some points. and to add a few more full stops.... Edited March 26, 2009 by The Chef Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chris u'5 Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Would I be correct in saying that ALL versions of the WE M4 have a 14mm CW (+) thread. I would have assumed yes but someone on another forum has stated otherwise. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Major Dutch Schaeffer Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 I received my TS-1 blue buffer, and noticed the weights inside are moving, so I'm assuming there's room for more weights. I haven't tested my buffer yet, since I've some parts broken (trigger gearbox and "reinforced" V2 charging handle). It seems to me that the blue buffer is a little bit heavier than the original one, but not that much. That would explain why some users find the recoil too weak... Â Any of you ever try to fill the TS-1 buffer at its maximum number of weights before pretending recoil is too weak? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WETTI Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 For WETTI: Propane (C3H8 to give its chemical formula) is a natural gas. Â Green Gas and other airsoft derivatives tend to be made up of Propane, Silicone (usually between 0.5-2%, used a lubricant) and some aromatics, so you can smell any leaks. Â They are proven to be one and the same thing. So when we talk about Propane, assume we mean Green Gas (but without the lube). Â Â Â Â My point was, TS-One claimed they have tested their products to withstand Green Gas (propane) and claim to have increased recoil on their new recoil buffer when using Green. Â Customers on this very thread, using propane (green) have recorded no such result and a very minimal increase in recoil if any at all, and as such have been disappointed by their purchase. So in the eyes of the Consumer, this puts the claims of TS-One in doubt. Â TS-One then go on to say that using a higher powered gas is not recommended (I assume they assumed propane was more powerful, which we know it isn't) to use the M4. Â BUT...... and here's the rub.... Â WE are releasing CO2 magazines, which is DEFINITELY more powerful than propane/green..... Â ERGO..... Â TS-One state their products are not to be used with a higher power gas than propane/green, so therefore their products are not tested to work with the new CO2 capability of the WE M4. Â that was all that I was trying to get across. Â Â But that said, the whole concept of increased manufacturer/consumer dialogue is tremendous and you all deserve to be a major success on that fact alone. Â Hi Chef, Â Quite the contrary, in fact! According to my conversation with TS' boss, he was suspecting the use of 'less powerful' gas is the main reason which led to the spring guide not working as advertised. He pointed out that the more powerful the gas, the more 'recoil feel' this spring guide would produce over the stock spring guide. At least that's how I understand it... Â Anyhow, I think I'll leave it for TSC to provide proof that this thing indeed works. I'm just the manufacturer of the basic AWSS M4 platform... Â WETTI Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chris u'5 Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Does it come with extra weights? Can it be opened? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wraithxt1 Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 I just wanted to throw in my two cents about how impressed I am with WETTI, AirsoftBuddy and TS Ones customer service here. Â This is unheard of in the airsoft industry, and it's truely a wonderful thing to have an open dialog with the manufacturer. And on top of that, the manufacturer and distrubuters are actually listening and making changes based on our feedback! Amazing! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Chef Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 (edited) Cheers WETTI, was just trying to get everyone singing from the same hymn sheet. Â Personally, I am not unhappy with the stock recoil. I'm probably going to leave that bit well alone. Â On the subject of the gas rod stabilizer and seal 122 going kaput..... Â would there be any benefit in extending the brass tube 112 so the seal never leaves the brass tube (so it can't misalign) and porting the end of that brass tube with a hole or two to vent the blow back gases? Â or am I barking up the wrong tree here? Â Well, I'm just waiting on the hop/barrel upgrade before I buy all my other bits. Â Â Edit... Â Whoop! post number 3500 in this thread! Edited March 26, 2009 by The Chef Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WETTI Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Cheers WETTI, was just trying to get everyone singing from the same hymn sheet. Personally, I am not unhappy with the stock recoil. I'm probably going to leave that bit well alone.  On the subject of the gas rod stabilizer and seal 122 going kaput.....  would there be any benefit in extending the brass tube 112 so the seal never leaves the brass tube (so it can't misalign) and porting the end of that brass tube with a hole or two to vent the blow back gases?  or am I barking up the wrong tree here?  Well, I'm just waiting on the hop/barrel upgrade before I buy all my other bits.   Edit...  Whoop! post number 3500 in this thread!  Hey... I think TSC will have something announced before the weekend which claim would solve that #122 issue permanently (that's what I was told anyway...)  AND Chef.... I think you've found the right twig Quote Link to post Share on other sites
redline Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Chef, extending the barrel so the O-Ring never leaves the tube sounds like a brilliant idea!! This way there will be no need for stabilization! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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