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WE Gas Blow Back M4A1 Carbine


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Updating my DIY ver.1 hop-rubber results:

(took a while as I had to wait for replacement parts from AB then I had to get my PC replaced)

 

It shoots a 12" circle at 40m, no wind at about 400fps on .25g bbs. It seems copying the Tanaka hop profile (inverted "u") did the trick. Oh, and no more over hops. At 1/2 turn of the dial it flies real straight all the way to 35~40m then drops. More than that and it starts arcing a little over the line of sight before dropping. At 0~1/4 turn it just drops to the ground as the hop effect is completely turned off.

 

Also, about the discrepancy between differently set nozzles with fps figures:

There are two ways in which WE has tuned down the fps; by changing/redesigning the shape of part #42 and by changing the length of part #39. The first method really does tune down the guns' performance to the 300fps range while the second does not (actually goes a bit over 400). The difference lies on the reinforced steel nozzle (part #44) which has a slightly larger gap for the gas to go through. The second method (elongating part #39) actually will work to bring your guns performance down to 300-odd fps only if you have the original brass nozzle design on. If you have the steel nozzle, in which it was incorporated by default, the loss in fps isn't as dramatic since the nozzle itself is different. So to sum it all up:

 

brass nozzle #44 + original #42 + original #39 = 500fps

brass nozzle #44 + redesigned #42 + original #39 = 300fps

brass nozzle #44 + original #42 + redesigned #39 = 400fps

steel nozzle #44 + original #42 + redesigned #39 = 400fps

steel nozzle #44 + original #42 + original #39 = 500fps

Edited by renegadecow
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Updating my DIY ver.1 hop-rubber results:

(took a while as I had to wait for replacement parts from AB then I had to get my PC replaced)

 

It shoots a 12" circle at 40m, no wind at about 400fps on .25g bbs. It seems copying the Tanaka hop profile (inverted "u") did the trick. Oh, and no more over hops. At 1/2 turn of the dial it flies real straight all the way to 35~40m then drops. More than that and it starts arcing a little over the line of sight before dropping. At 0~1/4 turn it just drops to the ground as the hop effect is completely turned off.

 

Also, about the discrepancy between differently set nozzles with fps figures:

There are two ways in which WE has tuned down the fps; by changing/redesigning the shape of part #42 and by changing the length of part #39. The first method really does tune down the guns' performance to the 300fps range while the second does not (actually goes a bit over 400). The difference lies on the reinforced steel nozzle (part #44) which has a slightly larger gap for the gas to go through. The second method (elongating part #39) actually will work to bring your guns performance down to 300-odd fps only if you have the original brass nozzle design on. If you have the steel nozzle, in which it was incorporated by default, the loss in fps isn't as dramatic since the nozzle itself is different. So to sum it all up:

 

brass nozzle #44 + original #42 + original #39 = 500fps

brass nozzle #44 + redesigned #42 + original #39 = 300fps

brass nozzle #44 + original #42 + redesigned #39 = 400fps

steel nozzle #44 + original #42 + redesigned #39 = 400fps

steel nozzle #44 + original #42 + original #39 = 500fps

 

Good to know renegade.

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renegadecow...what about:

 

steel nozzle + redesigned #42 +redesigned #39?

 

What will that bring the FPS down to?

 

And when you say redesigned #42, do you mean this:

http://airsoftbuddy.com/index_eproduct_vie...products_id=195

 

or this:

 

http://airsoftbuddy.com/index_eproduct_vie...products_id=236?

 

 

plus, is this the redesigned #39?

 

http://airsoftbuddy.com/index_eproduct_vie...products_id=191

 

how can you tell? Thanks renegadecow!

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I know velocity reducers are not great and there is controvesy of whether they actually work on full auto or not.

 

how do you think one will work on the WEM4 platform. I will be playing on semi most of time anyway... anybody with actual experience with velocity reducers?

 

Velocity reducers, i believe, use an Iris-type opening to reduce the speed of the BB. Once the iris has been fully opened by a BB passing through it, it is as good as useless in slowing down the next round coming down the tube. I believe this is completely universal.

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renegadecow...what about:

 

steel nozzle + redesigned #42 +redesigned #39?

 

What will that bring the FPS down to?

I haven't encountered anyone doing that combination so I'm only guessing here but probably closer to 300.

 

The redesigned #42 would be the brass one while the second one is of the original design but made out of steel. Its hard to tell if the #39 is the original or not as the length of the threaded end would be the only real indicator. I don't think they sell them separately though so that may be the original replacement one in your link.

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I keep hearing that and it does make perfect sense but thenI have never ever heard it from an actual person who used one.

 

it seems to be a bit of a airsoft urban myth... I heard it from a friend of a friend kinda thing.

 

Why I ask is because (and it is obvious) ...then wouldn't velocity reducers be perfect for guys like me who love the m4 but need it to shoot less when skirmishing and wouldn't mind the extra punch when doing tactical carbine (practical rifle, target , etc..)

 

drop in complete bolt sets would be perfect but until then.. maybe velo reducer?

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I keep hearing that and it does make perfect sense but thenI have never ever heard it from an actual person who used one.

 

it seems to be a bit of a airsoft urban myth... I heard it from a friend of a friend kinda thing.

 

Why I ask is because (and it is obvious) ...then wouldn't velocity reducers be perfect for guys like me who love the m4 but need it to shoot less when skirmishing and wouldn't mind the extra punch when doing tactical carbine (practical rifle, target , etc..)

 

drop in complete bolt sets would be perfect but until then.. maybe velo reducer?

 

 

I have the velocity reducer, and as the other poster said, its bsicaly a rubber film with an "X" cut into it. The BBs have to fly through this "X", thus slowing it down. When in full auto, the bbs will fly through before the X can seal itself up again, therefore only slowing down the first BB.

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But dont velocity reducers cause MASSIVE accuracy issues and wear out quickly?

 

If I'm mistaken let me know, because I'll be first in line to pick one up myself!

 

On another note, has anyone actually tested to CO2 mags yet? Are the any better than the V2 magazines? Do you get any more/less gas out of each mag? Can you empty a mag on auto?

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But dont velocity reducers cause MASSIVE accuracy issues and wear out quickly?

 

If I'm mistaken let me know, because I'll be first in line to pick one up myself!

 

On another note, has anyone actually tested to CO2 mags yet? Are the any better than the V2 magazines? Do you get any more/less gas out of each mag? Can you empty a mag on auto?

I don't think they're even selling the mags yet...they probably sell the guns, but not the mags yet. Besides..don't you need new internals? Plus, I wasn't aware that there was a V2 Magazine...

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I have the new hopup in mine and mine does not pull left or right anymore but it is still inconsistent. I have been tinkering with the floating valve and have consistently got both of my guns shooting 350fps. I think the problem with my guns shooting sporadically along with everyone else is the mag is sitting a "LITTLE" loose in the hop chamber. If you pull the charging handle and lock the bolt carrier back look into the ejection port and move your mag back and forth. You can see that the BB follower unit slightly points up and down when you move it. I think that due to the recoil factor each shoot is coming out one over hopped and one to the ground. I'm going to try and fix it today. When the gun is shooting good this thing is much more accurate than my first version hopup. It is as accurate as a AEG......... very encouraging if you ask me. I will post up the results when I mod the mag well. Stay tuned.

 

THANK YOU for your posts - and to Renegadecow, the same thank you.

 

HSOJGNILRAD? A little confused how mag movement is affecting your shot to shot consistency. Pics would be great.

 

I dont seem to have this movement. But my consistency is the worst of any gun I have owned.

 

Any others with "gen 3" guns - or others who have exchanged their barrels and hops for 'gen 3' stuff - PLEASE POST YOUR EXPERIENCE.

 

We would all appreciate it - HSOJGNILRAD keep us updated on what you find.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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If you guys can do an accuracy test at say 7m-10m using 0.25g BBs it would give us an idea of the accuracy.

 

I know there is a difference between short range accuracy and long range accuracy particularly in airsoft guns, but just a rough guide to see the difference in the new system vs old.

 

My V1 barrel is accurised and I can't really use that to compare stock performance, which is much less appealing.

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Well I tried putting a piece of soft Velcro in the mag well wall closes to the front end. It did tighten up the mag but it didn't really do to much it helped a little. I wouldn't recommend doing it because your mag sits really tight in the mag well. I also added a little piece of Teflon tape that I rolled up in a tiny ball (really small) and dropped it in the hole where the ball sits. Then I put the ball back in and it seemed to help quite a bit. I will fire it a couple more times later today......By the way I live in SoCal and it is 100 outside The damn recoil almost blew my jaw off...LOL. Bare with me guys I'm trying every thing I can to get this new hopup dialed in. Like I said when it is dialed in the new hopup performs very well. Much better than the V1 hopup. It just needs some tinkering.

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I don't think they're even selling the mags yet...they probably sell the guns, but not the mags yet. Besides..don't you need new internals? Plus, I wasn't aware that there was a V2 Magazine...

 

 

I fixed and sold my V1, and snagged a V2 AFC from Airsoft Buddy. I've been running well ever since. It still vents excess gas on full auto, so I keep it on semi 99% of the time. www.youtube.com/wraithxt1 shows a bunch of the guncam vids I have of my M4.

 

There are two different green gas mags. I bought some first gen ones when I got my first rifle. They have a slightly different finish and the valve is a bit differnt in shape.

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I have some experiences with WE that I want to share. I have tried several brands of gas in local market including those which are labeled as green gas . I have found that if gas has silicone mix the gun will have a bad grouping. So now I use 75% of 134a with 25% of high power gas as propane with no silicone (after trial and error). The grouping is better at 15 meters but not as good as AEG. I still have old version hopup on my gun (waiting for 6.02 to come out to the market). My gun shoots around 345 - 355 fps with .25 marui brand. The temperature is 38-40 C here . I don't think this formula will work every place in the world since the temperature is deferent from place to place. But this is how we improved our WE.

 

This is next thing my friend is working on,a stainless disconnecter. He has handmade this with metal and tried with my friend's WE. It works fine. Now he is sending this diagram to a shop that can produce this with laser. This time it will be stainless steel. After testing this with my gun, I will tell how it performs.

1240282215_0.99163500.jpg

 

 

Edited by Net Ronin
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To everyone with a broken part #59:

 

I've been pouring my brains out on how such a simple part would break ever since Rottenotto's had broken some time ago. Mine broke just last Sunday (although surprisingly, it didn't affect performance not one bit) and since I'm not one to pay $11 shipping for a $1.50 part, I gave it some more brain juice.

I've come to the conclusion that the part is flawed in its design. Because the prongs are split all the way to the top and cut at sharp, right angles at the corners, the force exerted by the hammer becomes rotational which is why they start splitting from the inside corner like a revolving door as illustrated below.

 

Top view cross section

topcrosssection.jpg

 

In theory, the solution is simple: keep the top part of the split closed as such (at right):

modified59.jpg

 

The point is that the extra material will support the prongs and keep them from folding in plus the whole length of the folded corner would act like an angle bar where stress would be evenly distributed; no corners to start cracking. I've already purchased some 1mm thick stainless steel sheet to prototype the design and should be able to test it out by the weekend.

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1. To wetti:

I personally think its the greatest thing in airsoft to have a GBB m4, wanted one forever, i was actually getting bored of aegs buying the next newest thing, to the next, only to keep it for 3 months then i was bored.Repeat process, etc. Now with the GBB m4 every shot is exciting, reloads are interesting, and when i shoot i don't sound like a wimppy vacuum cleaner trying to sneeze. the recoil lets me know when i pulled that trigger stuff just went downrange. The charging handle works, everything on the Gun has a purpose. And my biggest + no issues of where to place the battery and dependencies on an electrical system. In other words wetti, this gun has single handily rejuvenated airsoft for me.

I personally want to thank you guys for having the melons to produce a product like this, and making it possible for someone like me to afford it. Marui is playing with plastic full auto hicapas. You guys are making freaking rifles. And their will be other companies turning out similar products down the road, but you guys were the first, the pioneers and most of us real fans of GBBS appreciate it and will remember this moment. There always has to be the first to strike that match, and you guys are that fire.

I believe most of the users feel the same way i do, granted its not perfect yet, but NOTHING IN THE WORLD EVER IS THE FIRST TIME. THATS HOW THE WORLD WORKS, YOU HAVE TO BREAK STUFF IN ORDER TO KNOW WHAT TO FIX. So once again thank you guys. - Sam

 

2. To complaining posters: if you don't like it don't buy it, if you already bought it sell it. Short of that, complaining and crying isn't constructive and isn't gonna stop your tampon from leaking. Obviously Wetti is on here so we can give our direct response to their product,(improvements,etc) what other company does that? And you know why they don't, to avoid the 10% of users like you. You knew the gun was new before you bought it???? what were you expecting? for the first time the users can easily input their ideas into a product through the actual company, and all you want to do is inform them how it's not perfect, and not meeting your standards, who the hell are you, is your name systema? Next time you guys feel like posting soemthing ask yourself if its gonna better the world in any way whatsoever, or if the world would be better without it.

 

3. There are people in this world that like advancements in technology and understand the roadblocks and speed bumps are needed to reach that next step, if your not one of those people, go and buy the most advance EBB AEG, and hope it doesn't vibrate your teeth out. :bam:

Edited by theprodigy
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Renegade,

What I suggested the last time (when I originally broke one) is to do the following,...

 

modified592.jpg

 

Just use a small round hobby file and turn the sharp corner into a round one. (or drill it, whichever). Cracking would stop.

 

I dont even bother doing this anymore, however. I have a bag of these covers as spares. they are so afordable that it isnt worth modding. Thats just me however.

 

As I wrote before, we do this on drum cymbals to stop cracking - a round hole stops a crack. Or prevent one in this case.

 

 

crackcymb.jpg

Edited by rottenotto
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1. To wetti:

I personally think its the greatest thing in airsoft to have a GBB m4, wanted one forever, i was actually getting bored ....

 

So we all should just be happy and dance around a tree?

 

If I buy a gun or whatever product I expect it to work.

Doesn't matter if it's new on the market or not.

It is okay that "we" are now actually in the validation phase of the WE M4s Life circle but folks, it's a toy gun.

 

But to me it's more about the third party parts and not about the actual gun. And again, I don't mean Wetti!

 

The recent scenario that I bought that $15 o-ring set where the most important or the ring that is going to break first is not included. That is flat out just a no go.

 

And the fact that the stock gun shredds the #122 (for example) is a lack of testing. I mean, we found it, why didn't WE do in the first place?

 

And again, I am talking about WE, not Wetti!!

Wetti does a great job and tries the best he can to fix WEs flaws.

 

Let's not start a flamewar here and get back to business.

Edited by somegirls
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The WE GBB M4 does have many flaws that might make people shy away from buying one now but what people fail to see is how much people and companies like WETTI are doing to make the system work for future releases. Sure it may not be perfect out of the box at the present time but WE guns were never really perfect out of the box. So people should have expected to do some "work" on it when it first came out. The biggest plus in my eyes is not the low price or spare parts availability, but the amount of research and development being done to it. It may be an unorthodox method to have the customers do WE's research and development, but at least there's someone listening and doing what they can to resolve problems to make the platform better. I've kept up with all of the pages from day 1 and I have to say i went from excited about the news, to disappointed with the problems, to hopeful from the support. A company like WETTI is amazing simply due to the amount of work they are doing to improve this system. I don't consider WE to have any official "vesions" and I share that opinion with WETTI. People and companies like WETTI are improving the system so there's still hope that one day a WE GBB WETTI-AFC custom -whatevergun- will be released that's perfect out of the box. I don't own any WE guns but so long as I have this hope, a WE GBB -whatevergun- is still on my wish list.

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