WE Gas Blow Back M4A1 Carbine

[LordElpus]

poor quality bbs?

[Lupus78]

Interesting... Not a bad price!

 

http://www.airsoftbuddy.com/index_eproduct...products_id=362

[lukvdh]

Interesting... Not a bad price!

 

http://www.airsoftbuddy.com/index_eproduct...products_id=362

 

Interesting indeed.

 

But what other parts do we have to replace to make the gun CO2-compatible ?

 

And does anyone know how many shots can be fired using one CO2 cartridge?

[Eliminator]

60-70 shots from what I readed somewhere, wich is less than the regular gas mags, wich shots 4 mags full of BBs(33) with one fill

[Bigfoot]

Hey all, 

 

Quick question,

 

Does anyone know of a good gas to use, and a link to where to buy it ?

 

I have been reading etc but there is so many mixed reviews, I'm a little lost 

 

Much appreciated

 

(newbie!) 

 

 

[Eliminator]

I guess Green Gas can be available almost at every UK's airsoft retailer

[Bigfoot]

Yeah thats the thing I heard green gas was poor. Ive been recommended Top gas from AB and Propane from the we m4 guide. 

 

So can any experts provide a link of a good propane or top gas seller.

 

Nice1

 

 

[LordElpus]

B&Q or Halfords for Propane. It's with the plumbing tools

[Bigfoot]

B&Q or Halfords for Propane. It's with the plumbing tools

 

 

Cheers dude , Well I'll test them both out. I'm swaying towards co2 mags at the moment. But only prob would be power increasing, as I can't let it go past 350fps (Local site limit). I have version 3. Its going to be tricky.  

 

 

How many mags to you guys carry? I'm thinking 6-8 

 

 

 

 

[rottenotto]

hey rottenotto.

 

have you had any issues with your bolt-catch, not catching so far?

 

 

Hey there Accuracy

Yeah for the very first time I have.

 

All winter it was great, But now with 90 degrees - and EXTREME rate of fire and kick - a couple mags didnt lock the bolt open after the mag was empty.

 

This was on Full auto - in semi it would catch.

 

What that tells me is the speed of the bolt movement is too much and the bolt catch cant do its job.

 

Its too frantic in full auto and it doesnt have the chance to get in there and stop it. It just keeps getting knocked away. One shot in semi is plenty of time for the bolt stop to engage.

 

Thats been my experience.

 

 

[rottenotto]

Just a short bit on #117 (rubber chamber doohickey). I manually chambered a bb and had the bolt close on full force. Then I disassembled the front bits to get to the barrel and I found that the bb was in fact sitting in #117, and not held back by the hop rubber. I've only really noticed bbs to roll out and slip when I inject my mags with some green gas to lube things up a bit, unfortunately part #117 included. But after a couple dozen shots of propane (or just wiping the barrel down with tissue paper, the rolling stops.

 

This might be an illusion.

 

I dropped the bolt to load a bb - then pullled the bolt back - and peered in from ejection port side.

 

The bb is sitting ahead of the rubber chamber - maybe sitting on the last ring of rubber - and stopped squarely against the green mirco dot (hopup).

 

** The green microdot is immediately after the last ring of the rubber chamber - too close - too crammed. As I wrote on the last page.

 

It is what ultimately stops the bb. Anybody on this forum who sanded down the green hop bucking (including myself) to stop the "overhopped" condition immediately had bb's rolling down the barrel and on the floor.

 

I can't see how a bb could be sitting in this chamber since it is obviously wrapped around - and is gripping - the brass feed nozzle like its supposed to. (Thats its job)

 

Basic physics - "two objects cant occupy the same space at the same time". Youve got a ridge on your brass nozzle that mates with the 2 ribs molded in the rubber chamber part #117.

 

The Co2 version will have an even more aggressive "lock" between these 2 parts.

Edited April 29, 2009 by rottenotto

[rottenotto]

My WE M4 was schredding BBs when I first used it "brandnew right out of the box".

 

I put in the stabilizer, cleaned and lubricated things, disassembled the barrel and put it all together again.

 

It was firing very good after that.

 

I let it unused for 3 days, now I shot it again and it's shredding BBs again, and velocity is low (120 fps, used to be > 400).

 

Anyone any idea what could cause this "bad behaviour"?

 

What kind of gas do "you all" use?

 

 

'Chopping bb's' is a 'misfeed issue'.

 

And its usually caused by too much silicone in the gas mixture.

 

 

[Eliminator]

Cheers dude , Well I'll test them both out. I'm swaying towards co2 mags at the moment. But only prob would be power increasing, as I can't let it go past 350fps (Local site limit). I have version 3. Its going to be tricky.

 

 

How many mags to you guys carry? I'm thinking 6-8

Personally, I carry 7 mags: one engaged and the 6 remaining in the mag pouches

[wraithxt1]

I had 11, due to leaks I'm down to 8 now. Mags get heavy to carry, but I love reloading!

[cocofr69]

Hi guys

 

here is my 2 cents about the function of the part #117. I have mesured and drawn the parts of the hop-up :

 

 

Assemblage_Hopup_WE.PDF - 1.5 Mb

 

On the "detail 1", you can see the position of the BB according to the size of the different parts, it's about 1.5mm away from the green rubber on the gen 1 hop-up, it holds tight in the #117 rubber.

To confirm that, i took a picture of the BB after cooking manually, and slowly, the gun:

 

and then, the same view on the 3D model:

 

It seems to be at the correct position on the blueprint...

 

Then, i fired a burst of 3-4 BBs, and took another picture:

 

it seems that the BB is 1mm forward from the last picture, so on the blueprint i pushed the BB 1mm forward, this is "detail 2", and did the same view on the 3D model:

 

The BB is still holding tight in the #117 rubber, it's half a millimeter away from the #118, and 1mm to escape from the #117.

 

So where would be the BB if it's out of the #117 ?

I pushed the BB 2mm forward on the 3D model:

 

It doesn't that the BB is so far on the real picture, but till i haven't found a way to mesure the exact position of the BB after the burst, it's only speculation...

 

What i think about the BB falling is that the #117 is the part that hold the BB, and yes, the inertia of the bolt pushes the BB more than a manual cooking.

 

Due to the cylindrical shape of the zone wich hold the BB, a greasy #117 let's the BB pass through, but i think that a lip at the end of #117 could solve the problem:

[3vi1-D4n]

LOL, as I thought, thank you someone for showing the proof. The Bucking HOLDS the BB, as expected, and is the reason the BB hooks in flight (ignoring barrel warping which is another minor issue).

 

Also, the BB crushing is CAUSED BY the first BB being in the chamber too tight and didn't fire, and the 2nd BB being crushed while being pushed into the chamber because the first didn't fire. The 2nd BB never made it into the chamber as it was displaced and stayed outside of the chamber being crushed by the nozzle. Its NOT because of poor BBs.

 

How do I know? Cos after I did the mods to other people's rifles the BB crushing disappeared.

 

So yeah WETTI, hope you are taking notes

Edited April 29, 2009 by 3vi1-D4n

[rottenotto]

Beautiful illustrations coco.

 

But the bb is stopping further than you have drawn - Seen in the actual photos.

 

You can plainly see the ridge in the rubber chamber (#117) in the actual photo. The bb is ahead of this so it isnt being held by the rubber chamber any longer. It is being kept from rolling out the barrel by the green dot.

 

The chamber seal is slowing the bb down as a sort of side effect. (at most)

 

If things worked as you have illustrated, then bb's would not roll out the barrel when you sand down (or cut or grind or whatever) the green dot - but they do.

 

That should be the only proof anybody needs to realize that - again- the hop up is ultimately stopping the bb. Sad but true.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rottenotto]

LOL, as I thought, thank you someone for showing the proof. The Bucking HOLDS the BB, as expected, and is the reason the BB hooks in flight (ignoring barrel warping which is another minor issue).

 

No it DOESN'T - that is the problem.

 

Clean your inner barrel if you want the bb to fly straigh/level/consistent.

 

 

 

[3vi1-D4n]

Ok, well I agree to disagree, and will let others decide for themselves, and hopefully WE to take some notes. The CAD drawing was pretty good to verify the details.

 

Whatever mods I did, worked to improve its accuracy and eliminated jamming, so thats all I can say, opinions of one man, and 4 rifles.

 

Its like the lightbulb, no one really knew how it worked until nearly 100 years later.

Edited April 29, 2009 by 3vi1-D4n

[rottenotto]

Ok, well I agree to disagree, and will let others decide for themselves, and hopefully WE to take some notes. The CAD drawing was pretty good to verify the details.

 

Whatever mods I did, worked to improve its accuracy and eliminated jamming, so thats all I can say, opinions of one man, and 4 rifles.

 

Its like the lightbulb, no one really knew how it worked until nearly 100 years later.

 

Well let me say this. Mid summer we are going to hold the "WE M4 Olympics".

 

Then we can see who really knows how this gun works - and who knows how to tune them.

 

[lukvdh]

...

 

How do I know? Cos after I did the mods to other people's rifles the BB crushing disappeared.

....

 

 

Sorry to ask, but I was searching in your posts (and it seems there are 30 pages)....:

 

what exactly are "the mods" mentioned here?

Can you please point me to the article?

 

Thanks in advance !

[3vi1-D4n]

Rottenotto: LOL, Summer in which country? Its Winter here now.

 

I will leave this discussion as it is, because your experience and knowhow is different and you have interpreted the your observations differently from me. My specialisation is AEGs, gas bolt actions and GBBs, not classics/semi-classics. I don't know much about bolt actions or BVs.

 

All I can see is there is a problem, I solve it under the interpretation I observe/test. You will have a different way to evaluate this from me, so I am not going to go into which is "correct".

 

All I care is for WE to solve this issue, and I think we can both agree on that.

 

Edited April 29, 2009 by 3vi1-D4n

[renegadecow]

Coco has pretty much explained it all. That's the exact same spot where I found the bb to sit in when I took mine apart. Even though the bb clearly goes past the ridge meant for sealing the nozzle, there's still some material left to hold on to (circled in red).

 

In saying ammo choice when regards to shattered bbs, I meant how brittle they were. I initially used unbranded (we call them generic and probably from China) .25's which actually fly great and work in all of my guns except my N4. It would consistently chop/shatter bbs at a rate of 1 in every 20. I tried squeezing them in a pair of pliers and a bit of pressure just cleaved them in 2 or 3. Funny thing is that when they do get chopped, half of the bb is in the chamber and the other half is still seated in the mag lip so I blame a soft bb going through the chambering process itself. I switched to ICS ammo and I've never had the problem again. I tried squeezing those with pliers and they only got dented.

[redline]

Let's put this debate to rest.

 

How about someone remove the green rubber hop-up and see whether the BBs roll out. Then someone keep the green hop-up in and remove #117.

[3vi1-D4n]

Lukvdh: Here is my fix.

 

Sorry my bad editing of the original CAD, I did it in a hurry

 

The super glue serves 2 purposes:

 

1) Pushes to push the ends of the bucking in by adding material to the ends.

2) Thin layer in the chamber of the bucking serves to decrease friction. Something to do with the solvent in the Cyanoacetate affecting the rubber + adding that plastic layer onto it. Its permanent.

Edited April 30, 2009 by 3vi1-D4n