danielsilva Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 (edited) The WE system is possibly the more robust and useful system compared to the WA system so far, but that is offsetted by the lack of improvement in their system in terms of durability. WEs have the potential to be near perfect, working indefinately if the right parts are in the right place, but it seems that the manufacturer either doesn't want to make the best product, which is really against their selling promise. I do hope WE steps up to the game or else it will definately fall behind, because if KSC/KWA pumps out an M4 thats >450fps capable and is indestructable (which the new KSC/KWAs guns are) and are cheap (again the new KSC/KWAs are now much cheaper), then you know who we will end up backing. Like i said in the past and having owned both plataforms , WA - that includes the WOC - and WE , if i had to choose again between any of them and pondering the problems of both i would have to choose the WE any day. Although the WE platform as is, is plagued with small problems, i still find them much more manageable ( and way cheaper too ) than the one i had with my WA. From the problems that 3vi1-D4n listed i only consider two of them critical, the trigger system wear and the rubber components ( part #117 ) "fail" on low temperatures wich in my opinion is in great part, the culprit for the many broken nozzles. Although 3vi1-D4n listed the hop-up/accuracy, i honestly, after installing stinger's/ra-tech's hop-up kit found the accuracy although not sniper grade ( can't compare it to the precision of my sniper guns aw338/vsr ) very skirmishable, i can hit torso sized targets at up to 70m, 8 out of 10 times ( measured and tested, .25g 400fps we m16 ). Get me a good quality steel made trigger group and i won't ever need another replica .... ... ok that's not true because i can't see a gbbr and not buy it BTW, ain't the new KSC/KWA be using WA type mechanics ? Pretty sure i saw something about it, if confirmed i wouldn't hold my breath ... anyone who chooses a WA based design is getting a one way ticket to Problem Town. Edited January 30, 2010 by danielsilva Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Easy Tiger Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 Thanks for the quick replies, seems I have a tough choice to make seeing as I have little experience with gas platforms. I love to tinker just as much as anyone. Tinkering for the sake of improving something is fine; what I don't look forward to is something that falls apart on me regularly to the point of frustration. Performance is tweakable, but without a stable base to work from, who cares if my rifle is an uber accurate high-fps monster rof machine if it goes kaput every other game? Funnily enough, the thing discouraging me from going 100% WE is the price. I guess the phrase "Buy expensive, cry once. Buy cheap, cry every day" is something that I've learned the hard way over the years. I guess I'll have to buy both? lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RayL Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 Funnily enough, the thing discouraging me from going 100% WE is the price. I guess the phrase "Buy expensive, cry once. Buy cheap, cry every day" This doesn't apply to WE. The problem here are the trigger parts, no matter how much you tinker or work on them you cannot fix the auto/burst fire problem. Eventually you will end up replacing these parts every 2 months or so. Everything else is "fixable", with time and money. Also, one thing to mention, if your receivers, outer barrels or any other build parts should break you'll be out of luck trying to find a replacement. KJW will sell you these parts for their platform, and WA/WOC has many aftermarket replacements available as well. That's another problem that's never been mentioned. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
danielsilva Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 This doesn't apply to WE. The problem here are the trigger parts, no matter how much you tinker or work on them you cannot fix the auto/burst fire problem. Eventually you will end up replacing these parts every 2 months or so. Everything else is "fixable", with time and money. My v1 still has the original trigger group ( only filed it once ), with propane that isn't such a huge problem, Co2 on the other hand ... Also, one thing to mention, if your receivers, outer barrels or any other build parts should break you'll be out of luck trying to find a replacement. KJW will sell you these parts for their platform, and WA/WOC has many aftermarket replacements available as well. That's another problem that's never been mentioned. So you're afraid of breaking a receiver or outer barrel ? I mean ... holy shinto My M16 has a 4/5mm thick steel outer barrel that it's heavier than the gun itself. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RayL Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 So you're afraid of breaking a receiver or outer barrel ? I mean ... holy shinto My M16 has a 4/5mm thick steel outer barrel that it's heavier than the gun itself. There have been numerous reports of broken threads on the upper receiver, broken trigger guard ears as well as receiving factory broken uppers and lowers. Good luck trying to replace them. Co2 might be the culprit behind the trigger set degradation, but aren't the newest WE GBBR's marketed as "Co2 versions"??? It makes no sense ordering a "Co2 version" if you can only use Green gas. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
danielsilva Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 (edited) There have been numerous reports of broken threads on the upper receiver, broken trigger guard ears as well as receiving factory broken uppers and lowers. Good luck trying to replace them. Co2 might be the culprit behind the trigger set degradation, but aren't the newest WE GBBR's marketed as "Co2 versions"??? It makes no sense ordering a "Co2 version" if you can only use Green gas. You CAN use CO2, the trigger group just degrades way faster. But still that doesn't imply that you can't use CO2, i use CO2 exclusively on my M16, but that is with a custom/DIY re-enforced trigger group. Is the perfect solution ? no. Do i want a better trigger group from the beginning ? Hell yes. But that doesn't change the fact that i still use CO2 and it's currently the one GBBR replica who offers CO2 support from the box ( if a bit screwed ). Regarding the numerous broken upper threads reports, i've just seen two cases and one of them was to actually show that somewhere, somehow someone was selling "fake" receivers and that the WETTI ones were somehow better ( highly dubious ). Although the KJW/Tanio Koba GBBR seems very durable, i've seen receivers break ( it is in the Arnies KJW thread anyway ), can you get them from KJW ? Apparently so, but that doesn't make it a perfect solution since not everyone is from USA or HK and there are various country's with severe/strict importation laws regarding these kind of parts ( unfortunately i'm in one of them ) and getting parts directly from KJW is simply not an option. Point is, 90% of failures are due to internal parts breaking and that, at least on Europe, i can get and have all of them at home without any hassle. Edited January 30, 2010 by danielsilva Quote Link to post Share on other sites
alston251 Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 I have been using my WE since last summer on green the whole time and i have not experienced a problem that wasn't caused by me. The only issue for me was fitment issues. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Break100 Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 in total i've bought 4 WE. two m4, a scar, and the last was 416. Three "major" problems are broken nozzle (fixed by co2 stainless nozzle), charging handle (fixed by steel charging handle from 3rd party product), and hop up rubber (i plan to buy ratech stinger if it is recommended). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dermonic Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 what's the usual reason why my bolt doesnt stop when the mag emptys? is it the mag, the bolt itself? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
renegadecow Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 It's a number of reasons actually, could be any one or more of the following: -Worn/rounded corner on bolt carrier (area that bolt stop hits). Fixed by lightly filing down the area back to right angles. -Wobbly bolt stop. Fixed by adding a shim to keep it upright. -Spring under bolt stop lever too stiff. Some have replaced it with a weaker one or cut a couple coils from the original. -Resistance of movement by plates on the mag. Fixed with oil or smoothing out sharp corners that could snag. -Severely worn plates on the mag. Fixed by replacing them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
laleme Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 Does anyone know why my bolt stop only works when I don't have BBs in the mag? When I do, the bolt stop switch doesn't want to stay up. Very strange. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jkpics Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 Does anyone know why my bolt stop only works when I don't have BBs in the mag? When I do, the bolt stop switch doesn't want to stay up. Very strange. Not really, that is how it is designed to work. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wraithxt1 Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Does anyone know why my bolt stop only works when I don't have BBs in the mag? When I do, the bolt stop switch doesn't want to stay up. Very strange. Sounds like you should take your gun back and get one that locks back when there are still BB's in the mag. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dermonic Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 thanks RC: my bolt stop indeed has worn /rounded parts. i tried filing. it's still the same Quote Link to post Share on other sites
danielsilva Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Apparently there are good news coming for the WE long running problem, it appears there is a new trigger group coming, made from forged and CNC'd finished steel ( maybe a bit overkill but hey ). Let's hope the fitting quality is as good as the manufacturing process is. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RayL Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Apparently there are good news coming for the WE long running problem, it appears there is a new trigger group coming, made from forged and CNC'd finished steel ( maybe a bit overkill but hey ). Let's hope the fitting quality is as good as the manufacturing process is. Where did you get this information? And who is making these? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
julietcharlie Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 It was announced in GGI here Quote Link to post Share on other sites
galil Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Sounds like you should take your gun back and get one that locks back when there are still BB's in the mag. maybe I should get mine looked at as well...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
renegadecow Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Sounds like you should take your gun back and get one that locks back when there are still BB's in the mag. Like an AGM? Tilt the gun sideways to the left while firing and the bolt stop engages even with bbs. thanks RC: my bolt stop indeed has worn /rounded parts. i tried filing. it's still the same Check the BCG as well. If that part has rounded out it would keep slipping just the same. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
alyaspogi Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 here's the web www.bbdragon.com.tw Quote Link to post Share on other sites
danielsilva Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 It was announced in GGI here Correct. Video found here: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
danielsilva Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 Well since there isn't much support from 3rd party's ( at least good companies like RA-Tech/Stinger )) i think i'll just create my own parts for it. I was already building parts for a custom M16 based DMR project but wasn't planning to "release" anything but now i think i'll reconsider it. So ... not counting the trigger set ( will test the CWI one first ) and hop-up ( already beeing worked on from others ) what do you would like to see for the WE ? - Custom Lenght/Design Outer Barrel ( already on the works for me, manufacturing in short time ) - Ambi Mag Catch ? - Redesigned Bolt Release/Catch ? - ??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
trinco Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 Well since there isn't much support from 3rd party's ( at least good companies like RA-Tech/Stinger )) i think i'll just create my own parts for it. I was already building parts for a custom M16 based DMR project but wasn't planning to "release" anything but now i think i'll reconsider it. So ... not counting the trigger set ( will test the CWI one first ) and hop-up ( already beeing worked on from others ) what do you would like to see for the WE ? - Custom Lenght/Design Outer Barrel ( already on the works for me, manufacturing in short time ) - Ambi Mag Catch ? - Redesigned Bolt Release/Catch ? - ??? thats a good idea, i was thinking to custom my own parts as well but im not good in designing there are a lot of companies out there and 1 of them is http://www.emachineshop.com/ so to those who are good in designing using cad, show us your work i'd love to get a steel ambi-selector anyway prime just released magpul receiver in tan http://www.tokyo-model.com.hk/ecshop/goods.php?id=6284 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eliminator Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 Well since there isn't much support from 3rd party's ( at least good companies like RA-Tech/Stinger )) i think i'll just create my own parts for it. I was already building parts for a custom M16 based DMR project but wasn't planning to "release" anything but now i think i'll reconsider it. So ... not counting the trigger set ( will test the CWI one first ) and hop-up ( already beeing worked on from others ) what do you would like to see for the WE ? - Custom Lenght/Design Outer Barrel ( already on the works for me, manufacturing in short time ) - Ambi Mag Catch ? - Redesigned Bolt Release/Catch ? - ??? Will you release a trigger in the TSC(type 1)style? I bought 2 of them, but my SPR keep firing in Auto with it, so I was forced to put the original trigger back in... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
somegirls Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 Ambi Fireselector!! in semi/fullauto and semi- only Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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