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Lupus78

WE Gas Blow Back M4A1 Carbine

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I've offered many times to ship out my barrel to you so you can inspect it. And no, I don't expect any help from you guys anymore, because from my experience, its been nothing but empty promises. How many times have you said via PM "I'll have someone ship out the barrel later this week." ?!! How many times have you asked for my mailing address, so you can ship it out??!

 

And as previously stated, its not the barrel that's defective. Its the housing. And this too, I offered to ship it out so you guys can inspect it. But nothing. No response. So I figured, you guys would rather turn a blind eye towards faulty manuf. process. Please explain, how is it that the original long barrel, easily fits into the housing, but not the supplied CQB or the new chrome barrel?

 

And, YES, I'm allowed to express my opinions and experience, and you know what? It hasn't been good. Do you want me to lie about it? I don't recall slandering, or calling WETTI a "bad" company. I only shared what I've gone through thus far.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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maybe they have stock for sale, and stock for replacements.......

 

Perhaps, but after exchanging numerous PMs, for almost 2 MONTHS, it gets a little frustrating. If that is the case, wouldn't it be better to just send out the "for sale" and restock it with the "replacement" ones, once they arrive. Also, I even offered to ship back the original one. I wasn't looking for a freebie. I was looking to swap.

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Wetti helped me out anyway he could with parts that were faulty. Check it out I bought a Systema PTW a few years back and within 8 months of purchase the motor went out. Systems didn't send me a new motor, $250 later I got a replacement motor that turned out to be the same version as the first one. At least every part that we have complained about WE and WETTI have listened. I know for a fact no other company will go on that limb for their customers. I pretty sure WA wiped their hands clean of their problems and let G&P deal with those issues. All I'm saying is for you to say that AB and WETTI's Customer Service is bad then you haven't dealt with anyone else.

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Wetti helped me out anyway he could with parts that were faulty. Check it out I bought a Systema PTW a few years back and within 8 months of purchase the motor went out. Systems didn't send me a new motor, $250 later I got a replacement motor that turned out to be the same version as the first one. At least every part that we have complained about WE and WETTI have listened. I know for a fact no other company will go on that limb for their customers. I pretty sure WA wiped their hands clean of their problems and let G&P deal with those issues. All I'm saying is for you to say that AB and WETTI's Customer Service is bad then you haven't dealt with anyone else.

 

I guess you were lucky then. They sure as hell haven't helped me. As they say, actions speak louder than words. For some time now, its been nothing but words. I have PLENTY of defects on my WE, but I don't expect a whole new one. In fact, I sucked it up, and just ordered the broken parts. Ie, tab that tends to lose its leg. Bought a replacement. Charging handle. Bought a replacement. O-rings, due to shredding (this was before stabilizer was available), bought replacements. Hop-up rubber..bought replacements. These I NEVER complained about.

 

My whole bolt carrier is faulty. I'm mentioned this numerous times when trying to install the stabilizer. It didn't fit. They didn't mill or C&C the internal part of the carrier correctly, so I had to sand the stabilzer so it fits. I didn't bother complaining due to my experience with asking for a simple thing such as a barrel. ONE THAT I EVEN OFFERED TO SHIP BACK.

 

And now, I find out that its not the barrel that's messed up, but rather the brass housing. I'm done asking for help. I figured, if I can't exchange something as simple as a barrel, how am I supposed to expect a housing exchange? Look, I appreciate the fact that they're involved with the airsoft community and all, but excuse after excuse doesn't sit right with me. Maybe it does for you, but not for me.

 

Again, maybe its a matter of luck. Obviously some people had good experiences dealing with them. I can't say the same when it comes to my case.

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@ Wetti:

Haven't heard or seen a Co2 M4 yet here on the forums. maybe they're so good they just don't break ;)

 

as for Germany, it's likely the fault of a specific government agency who have to check all gun imports due to our anal gun laws, not the distributor's fault, really.

as far as broken parts etc goes, so far I've always gotten a replacement from everybody, except Star when their anpeq broke during it's first game. But then, I've yet to deal with AB

 

edit:

those Ranger receivers are RAD!!!

Edited by Chevieblazer

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Very well. You have your point of view & I have mine. It's a free world, as you've stated. I give you that much.

 

Mind you, yours is the ONLY case of its kind in the many thousands of AWSS M4 that we sold. Even if it is true, an isolated incident simply cannot be classified as a "faulty manuf. process".

 

I'm here to make friends, not foes. I tried to do my best to help, but I've also got my limitations.

 

You said what...? "I don't recall slandering, or calling WETTI a "bad" company"....?? Then what do you call this...?????????

 

temp_1.jpg

 

Despite all of the above, I'll still give you the benefit of the doubt one more time. It is not because you have publicly insulted our company & our products, nor is it because you've banged on the horn and let everyone know how you THINK you have been mistreated. It is simply a show our company's operating principle of supporting our customers & standing behind our products.

 

If you would, pls PM me one more time with your contact info. & I'll send you back the parts.

 

To all: I'm not a service depot, despite what some of you might think. I'm NOT gonna send out replacement parts just because you told me you've broken something. The proper course of action would be to contact your local service/parts center (or one closest to you) or the dealer from whom you purchased the gun from. That is why we set up our worldwide service/parts network in the first place.

 

I'm going to bed (it's 0831 in the morning...)

 

WETTI

 

I've offered many times to ship out my barrel to you so you can inspect it. And no, I don't expect any help from you guys anymore, because from my experience, its been nothing but empty promises. How many times have you said via PM "I'll have someone ship out the barrel later this week." ?!! How many times have you asked for my mailing address, so you can ship it out??!

 

And as previously stated, its not the barrel that's defective. Its the housing. And this too, I offered to ship it out so you guys can inspect it. But nothing. No response. So I figured, you guys would rather turn a blind eye towards faulty manuf. process. Please explain, how is it that the original long barrel, easily fits into the housing, but not the supplied CQB or the new chrome barrel?

 

And, YES, I'm allowed to express my opinions and experience, and you know what? It hasn't been good. Do you want me to lie about it? I don't recall slandering, or calling WETTI a "bad" company. I only shared what I've gone through thus far.

Edited by WETTI

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Thanks for the offer...but how is it going to be any different this time around? How would submitting my address for the Nth time change anything? I don't need the barrel anymore. I bought one myself, thank you. And yes, when I said false claims, its because of the numerous broken promises. In my book, broken promises= false claims. How is that not true?

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Redline: It happens man, they are providing a very difficult to maintain service.

 

I want a spare hammer for my WE after mine wore (and subsequently fixed by), and I contacted AB about it but still none. But William has at least replied and said he is looking at it.

 

WETTI sent me a replacement for a WEM4 version 2 (a friend bought from a HK retailer and shipped through) after the receiver broke (same as the pic above), but I had to send the broken receiver back first. So thank you WETTI.

 

Just have to remember, Combined efforts of WETTI and AB are making the difference here (the other retailers aren't), so please people persevere.

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I have to agree with WETTI and 3vi1 we can't expect customer service from any where like what WETTI and AB is providing.

I too found my CQB inner barrel in the upper tolerance while my brass chamber might be in the lower tolerance resulting to an interference fit between the two parts, I just sanded the inner barrel until it fit the chamber.

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While I applaud WETTI as a company doing what they can to provide excellent customer service, I think some people are concerned that these guns REQUIRE customer service as soon as they get their gun. Replacement parts or upgrades...when parts comes directly from the manufacturer who designed the original gun, unless I damaged a major part myself I would expect it to work perfectly.

 

I do feel for redline as i'm still keeping up with the WE thread and i have noticed he has had some bad experiences with his gun from the start. But it's hard to blame the manufacturer of the gun for a flaw in the production line. It takes just ONE worker within the company to "overlook" a gun after supposedly testing it and that one worker shouldn't reflect how the company is as a whole.

 

As with ANY airsoft GBB gun, some people have guns that work perfectly, while some people just cant get it to work. And even those that do have a perfectly working GBB, most of the time it required patience and modification. If you're not willing to accept this fact, then don't bother buying a gbb rifle.

 

Edit: However I do not accept "sorry...e-mail server was down..." as a reason for not responding when there are other ways of notifying customers that they are having communication problems. E-mail servers may have gone down...but arnies' website did not.

Edited by shinhk

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While I applaud WETTI as a company doing what they can to provide excellent customer service, I think some people are concerned that these guns REQUIRE customer service as soon as they get their gun. Replacement parts or upgrades...when parts comes directly from the manufacturer who designed the original gun, unless I damaged a major part myself I would expect it to work perfectly.

 

I do feel for redline as i'm still keeping up with the WE thread and i have noticed he has had some bad experiences with his gun from the start. But it's hard to blame the manufacturer of the gun for a flaw in the production line. It takes just ONE worker within the company to "overlook" a gun after supposedly testing it and that one worker shouldn't reflect how the company is as a whole.

 

As with ANY airsoft GBB gun, some people have guns that work perfectly, while some people just cant get it to work. And even those that do have a perfectly working GBB, most of the time it required patience and modification. If you're not willing to accept this fact, then don't bother buying a gbb rifle.

 

Edit: However I do not accept "sorry...e-mail server was down..." as a reason for not responding when there are other ways of notifying customers that they are having communication problems. E-mail servers may have gone down...but arnies' website did not.

Shin well put.......hit it on the nose

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I still love my WE. And I didn't expect it to be perfect honestly for 400 bucks due to the fact that the WA has (still) many flaws as well at twice the price.

I don't have any problem replacing parts and all that. That is not the point. Furthermore the WE parts are pretty darn cheap.

For my part, my bolt catch still isn't working. But that's it. No big deal.

 

But come on, that kids broken reciever is definately not his fault. I just don't see the point to ask the guy to ship it back to AB for $80 where a clear photo of the recieve and the invoice would do the same trick.

 

If AB would have said "okay, thanks for the picture. We'll will replace it would unfortunately I have to ask you to cover the $30 shipping. Is that ok for you?" everything would have been fine. There are lemons out there and people get mad. But that's just the way it is.

 

Maybe it's because on my latest deal with vendors when I had issues.

Dragonred: recieved an Eotech with a slight ghost. Describtion said there is NO ghost. Sent mail. They offered me a $10 discount (for a $70 item). great deal.

 

ebaybanned: Recieved scope with broken windage adjustment. Asked me to send a picture. "Who am I supposed to show the windage isn't working?". So they offered me to send a replacement for free or a full store credit. (the whole thing took a bit longer though)

 

And for those saying "I bought from AB several times and it's always been a smooth deal". I agree. I bought from them twice and everything was fine. It is not about their products being bad (well, expect those new HU rubbers), it is about the service.

 

 

Anyways, when I need something I will check horizon tactial first.

 

WE joined this thread to get feedback, right? So they have to deal with the fact that the door swings both ways. None the less these issues are expections, but still not acceptable.

Edited by somegirls

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I can see the points you guys are making, and I definetely agree with some of the stuff you guys said. As previously mentioned, alot of folks have had good customer service experience with both WETTI and AB. Sadly, I (looks like I'm in the minority) can't say I had (except when it comes to buying stuff from AB).

 

 

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Even if it is true, an isolated incident simply cannot be classified as a "faulty manuf. process".

Sorry, but it isn't an isolated accident.

 

rotten receiver, receiver bad paint, broken delta ring, M4 which doesn't work,...

 

There is a lot of person who are complaining. Wait 2 month for a barrel while redline send you his, it's unacceptable.

 

Midma

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I think I can see why you're frustrated redline...it's not so much that you're the minority in this case, but a lot of the problems that people are having have actually been quality control issues. And unfortunately for people like you, there's not many 3rd party support so you can't pick and choose what parts to use. You have to rely on direct contact with VERY BUSY companies. It's great that WETTI and AB have been posting on the boards and listening to everyone's suggestions. However it's become a double edged sword to some extent. Yes it's good to make lots of replacement parts so that when parts that are prone to breaking actually break, people can buy a new one. But then that slows down the production of new guns because so many replacement parts are being ordered and filled. This is just a small portion of the entire world airsoft community and look how many spare parts people have been required to buy just in this thread alone. I don't doubt WETTI has been busy filling orders, but imagine if 3rd party companies were releasing reinforced parts that IMPROVED the peformance, not duplicated the problem. Then WE could push out all their "base" guns, and when things broke, people could buy an upgraded part from somewhere else without disrupting the research and development of WE.

 

When you buy an AEG from say...Jing Gong because it was a "cheaper" alternative to something like a VFC, when an internal part like a piston or piston head breaks, do you go and buy an exact replacement that can have the possibility of just breaking again? Or do you go and buy a better...3rd party aftermarket part that's reinforced and designed to eliminate the problem so it doesn't happen agan? When motors blew in dboys guns, did you buy another dboys motor or upgrade it by spending more money for a systema turbo or magnum motor? Granted, the turbo and magnum motors still had a chance of blowing, but people still took the chance and were probably glad to have options. People love options. Why else would the AR-15 market be so successful? It's the same internals...but the customization of externals is endless!

 

I guess the point I'm trying to make is everyone really has to be patient with companies like WE and WETTI. They're taking a step different from everyone else so although the WE M4 may not be the perfect gun now, at least they are working at trying to improve the design of it and appearing in public and listening to what others have to say. The research and development is taking place after the product has been released to the public and because no one else is really making 3rd party parts for it new designs and parts will take more time. If you want or already have a WE but it may not be working but still love it, just try to be patient with the company.

 

Of course...in redline's case (and a lot of others i'm sure), not everyone will be satisfied with a product or services nor will they be pleased with being the guinea pig for R&D at their own expense. Redline has been patient in my book cuz if I were him I would have given up on it as soon as i found out I couldn't put on a part that came with the gun and once I found out I was given a defective product I would have thrown it away and gone a different gbb route.

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Blimey, you leave a thread over night and look what happens!

 

You guys are drinking too much coffee.

 

To be honest, bad customer service should not be tolerated, thats true. But I think the service from WETTI and AB isn't truly 'bad'. They have come to this thread and have listened to our comments.

They don't get it right 100% of the time. I can only assume they are 'relatively' small and sometimes the ball gets dropped. This product has been quite big in a short space of time, and with the added element of listening to customers, I think they've created a bit of a monster.

 

Victims of their own success maybe.

 

So we have the following....

 

People who have issues with their guns shout about it. Those who haven't don't.

Those who have bad service shout about it, those who don't.... well... Don't.

 

So you tend to hear the bad more than the good.

 

My M4 is working fine and has been since day 1. Nothing has broken. The only issues I have are the hop (Gen1), bolt catch is random and one mag is leaking.

 

AB's service... well, much better than the supposed UK distributor. They didn't even reply to my email queries. I mentioned on my email to AB that I heard the new hop rubbers are a bit hit and miss, and he offered to send me a load for free. I know they are cheap, but he didn't need to do that.

And the order was processed within 24 hrs.

 

So yes, WETTI and AB are not PERFECT! in truth who IS??

 

As for the rifle itself. Like I said before..... IT'S NEW. It's going to have some teething trouble. These are not going to be ironed out instantly. BUT, the faults are being addressed. We can see that with the various evolutions that are happening. They might not be quite what we are looking for, and they might not be the best upgrades in the world, but again, thats evolution.

 

What it shows is 'THEY ARE LISTENING'.

 

Now, if we take Star/ARES in comparison. I've had an AW338 and a DSR-1 from them. Now for love nor money I can't get it to fire over 400fps. Have I had any correspondence from ARES... NONE. And this is on a product that costs almost double what the WE M4 does.

 

The G&G SA80 when it was released.... Fundamentally flawed using the 18 tooth piston set up and having a plastic hook for blowback mounted directly over the open gearbox. Massive uproar! Gearbox failure all over the place. Some of us got new gears. most didn't. I went through 3 sets within as many weeks.

What the practical upshot.... they still use the same fundamentally flawed system but have put a semi effective cover over the gearbox. And this is about 3 years or more down the line!

There is even an aftermarket upgrade that is genius in design (admittedly the idea was conceived by one of our very own Arnies members) but G&G have failed to adopt it.

 

I suppose the point of all this is....

 

Lets not tear WETTI and AB a new bum hole just yet. We don't know how many balls they are having to juggle. We as individual customers are just one of those (equally important by all means, but still only one of them).

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I have to say I have not used AB myself and to be honest I prefer to use my local parts supplier so it would be unlikely that would choose to use AB.

However I think it has to be pointed out that the relation between WETTI and AB is that AB is a manufacturer and AB is a retailer and they are different entities !

Just because AB have caused issues does not mean it is WETTI's fault and I do believe he is going out of his way to try and rectify a problem which should be sorted out by the retailer from where the product was purchased !

AB should be accountable for a defective product shipped from him and HE should pass it up the chain to his supplier etc .

We are in the unique postion here to have WETTI talking directly to customers but usual channels should be followed prior to asking for direct assistance from WETTI.

If a situation should arise in which the retailer is not being helpful in the slightest then emailing WE directly would be the best course of action rather than relying on forum contact which is merely a bonus to this product rather than a given normality .

 

If you bought a TM M4 SOPMOD and it was faulty (as several have been) you would complain to the retailer as TM would NOT be on the forums and would be very , very unlikely to respond directly to email.

 

Lets not take WETTI's presence here for grantedas he is here as a bonus to us in the improvement of the products and not as a shortcut to getting new parts etc

 

Many Thanks

 

Gaz

 

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Just because AB have caused issues does not mean it is WETTI's

 

QFT

 

That is exactly the point.

 

As said, there are always lemons and lacks in QC in 99% of any companies out there (not just airsoft).

 

But the RETAILER has in his own interest to take care of those lemons and fix the faults.

 

From another point of view there is only one WE. So no matter what, if you wanna buy one WE gets your money. But there are several retailers out there and the customer can chose where to buy from. That's a major difference.

 

So in this little thread universe, WETTI is here to advertise his product, AB is here to advertise his service.

 

So in my example I'm pretty much chosing horizon in the future I think. So horizon gets my money, AB don't. And WE/WETTI gets it anyway.

 

But anyways,

I also noticed that the innerbarrel is not sitting centered in my outerbarrel. When I take the flashhider off, my innerbarrel rests on the bottom of my outerbarrel. And it basicly moves freely. I don't think that helps the accuracy along. Is there anyway of getting us some kind of barrel spacer? Maybe a soft o-ring would already do the trick to keep it centered.

Just a thought.

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inner barrel:

 

mine does the same.

 

I think there is a somethiing above fixing this a few pages back with a pic of the possible spacer you can use.. sorry I can't for the life of me remember where though.

 

All I did was pad my inner barrel out with electric tape and now it sits ... center - rish... and does not move when shooting.

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yep glue one of them brass spacers to end of your inner barrel just before flash hider, that will center it, as done with mine.

 

also filed the bottom end of the of the outer barrel that fits into the receiver to get a better/straighter fit. (less flex on inner barrel)

Edited by aidan mc

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As previously said, there are nearly 50% of the guns working OOB and the remaining 50% that need some fixes. A team mate who brought his at the Belgium retailer got a Gen 3 gun(without markings) wich works fine in its "very own" configuration. I explain what I mean: The guy did not know how to set up the hop up, and his Bolt Catch did not works when firing. Ok I said I'm gonna take a look at this. For the hop up, no problem, it was set pretty high, so I lowered the set and the 0.20 BB he used flew nearly 60meters away. So 1st "fix" wich was only a set up. Now the Bolt Catch(steel version)I took both guns apart and put my upper on his lower. BC worked fine....So I disassembled his BC, turned on the spring and re-assembled. At first, it worked randomly, but after a few shots, it worked well. So I said lets try something: my lower on his upper...very bad idea...1 shot=1 charge of gas.... What happened? I don't know, but doen't matter since HIS gun worked fine.

 

My gun currently uses the 1st batch of Gen2 hop up/barrel, and after nearly 50 mags fired its on the way of beiing stable. My gun is set at 281fps(with the "300fps" part#42[the one with the 2 holes] offered from AB for testing purpose at the same time I bought a new Nozzle assembly, also known as Power Tune Up Kit). William has had to ship it 3 times to me but I just received 2...Not AB's fault, but Postal service, since it was shipped in an enveloppe twice, while the 3rd was shipped along with an order. For the stabilizers: I've 2 Bolt Carriers and 2 Stabilizers, one was a bit loose(I glued it) and the second one was too tight, but when in place and firing, it moved...Anyway, I glued it too and no more move...And for my inner barrel, it doesn't move

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I have to agree with WETTI and 3vi1 we can't expect customer service from any where like what WETTI and AB is providing.

I too found my CQB inner barrel in the upper tolerance while my brass chamber might be in the lower tolerance resulting to an interference fit between the two parts, I just sanded the inner barrel until it fit the chamber.

The same thing happened to me!

Also I've experienced the problem with the inner barrel sitting low in the outer barrel.

Thinking about it now my CQB inner barrel had a small brass circular sleeve attached to it in the box. I just removed it (hopefully I didn't bin it!) but I couldn't figure out what it was for. Maybe it was supposed to be used as a spacer??

Did anyone else have one?

 

If I did bin it I suppose a suitably sized rubber o-ring would just do the same job?

Edited by chris u'5

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I just wrapped some thin electric tape around the inner barrel, enough times so that it sits tight inside the outer barrel. This is one of the few simple fixes this gun usually needs.

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Does anybody have the noveske or a madbull ras on his gun?

 

I can't get that frickin barrel nut on there because there's no F+++ tool in the world for it.

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Hey guys, the problem with my inner barrel can't just be fixed by adding tape. I think you guys misunderstood. I'm not talking about inner barrel wobble. I'm talking about the hole in part #111 (brass housing) is too small to fit the barrel into. So someone at the factory, instead of getting a properlyy made #111, decided to sand one end of the inner barrel so it could fit into the brass housing.

 

This means that every barrel I get, I'm gonna have to sand it down, so it fits into part #111.

 

After reading some more posts, you guys made some valid points. I'll admit. My tone was a little harsh and I apologize. I'm just at my wits end...after both parties claiming they will work together to help me, and 2 months of PMs back and forth with nothing to show...I'm a little frustrated. Once again, I'm sorry for my childish behaviour. I'll try to act more mature in the future.

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