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Lupus78

WE Gas Blow Back M4A1 Carbine

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I guess want I am asking is can I get a WE AFC Version 3 in the United States? If so which retailer should I go with.

 

I ordered my new WE M4 from UNcompany just two weeks ago. Simply asked them to cover the trades with putty that was EASILY removed leaving the trademarks in perfect condition.

 

It even went through customs and got to me in 5 days from shipping date.

 

$360 for the gun + $60 for shipping charge. $420 total, not shabby at all for an awesome SOLID GBB M4.

 

 

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Which parts do i need for a reliable and skirmishable weapon that runs at 350 fps max?

 

I see other posts of ppl who installed the 300 fps nozzle, still their fps runs at +-410 fps?

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I guess want I am asking is can I get a WE AFC Version 3 in the United States? If so which retailer should I go with.

 

The only stateside store I trust is horizontactical.com. I believe you can still get stock WE rifles...but if you don't mind buying one from outside, I got mine from Airsoftbuddy.com

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Guys simple remedy for exploding mags.......don't leave them in the sun. My exploding mags were not due to a design flaw it was a user error. I loaded them with propane and set them on the table under an ez up. Sometime in the 30 mins I was gone working staff at the event the sun must have got through the shade. I'm not worried about it happening again because in the summer I'm not going to leave them where sun can effect them again. I had one mag in my gun while working all day in the sun that one didn't explode. It had something to do with laying down in the sun when the mags exploded and the 90 degree weather probably didn't help the matter either. Redline was at the same event and he didn't lose any Mags. I'm not mad at WE I'm more mad at myself at this point for not being a little more careful.

As much of a fan of WE as I am, I have to disagree. There is no simple remedy other than WE producing a mag that will not explode when exposed to sunshine. Other GBB mags do not explode. I can ( and have ) left GBB mags full of propane in the hottest sunshine in the middle of summer for hours- the only effect was that the weapon would not fire because the hammer spring could not overcome the immense pressure build up.

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As much of a fan of WE as I am, I have to disagree. There is no simple remedy other than WE producing a mag that will not explode when exposed to sunshine. Other GBB mags do not explode. I can ( and have ) left GBB mags full of propane in the hottest sunshine in the middle of summer for hours- the only effect was that the weapon would not fire because the hammer spring could not overcome the immense pressure build up.
Have you left a GBB mag that holds the same amount of gas as the WE M4 mag in the sun. A pistol mag doesn't hold nearly as much gas as our M4 mags do. I'm just saying if I would have left the mags in my pouch they probably wouldn't have been as exposed as they were and in result wouldn't have exploded. I know a few of you had different incidents I'm saying mine was all my fault.

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It cracks me up how the die-hard WA fans refuse to realize that WA's prices are a total rip off and that ALL their gas gun mags LEAK LIKE CRAZY with topgas/propane use and are always twice the price of any other brand mag?!

 

At least G&P came out with the o-ring mag set for the WA M4 mags...Anyway,

 

I have owned tons of WA GBBs, Magnas and every SCW variant and never bought a single WE pistol.

 

However, when it came down to buying a G&P WA M4 and a new WE M4, after some decent research, I went with the new WE CQBR...and it ROCKS.

 

If any of you don't know me, I'm not a pushover when it comes to owning quality GBB replicas. I can honestly say I am dumbfounded at the excellent quality and performance of the new WE M4.

 

I've put about 50 gas fills worth of propane through it without a hitch. Mag is holding gas solid and the gun shoots amazingly consistent.

 

Colt trademarks are the best most realistic I've seen on any metal body. Overall construction is sturdy and feels great.

 

I love this gun!

 

WE M4 > WA M4

 

Thank you for your support & your kind words! :)

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I guess want I am asking is can I get a WE AFC Version 3 in the United States? If so which retailer should I go with.

 

Try AirsoftAmmoSupply out in Oregon. They're my authorized dealer/service center out west besides evike.com

 

Evike.com should have almost ALL the M4 parts stock by next week.

 

WETTI

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Also because the M4 mags are larger they have to deal with exponentially more pressure per volume than pistol mags do.

 

Not exponentially actually...volume is inversely proportianal to pressure; pV=nRT

 

If volume expands 3 fold, then pressure will be 1/3 of the original value.

 

Regardless, EVERY container with a resevoir of pressurized gas WILL explode if heated enough.

 

 

I'm not about go throw my WE M4 mag in the direct sunlight to bake but I feel pretty confident that with normal use and proper storage it won't be blowing up anytime soon.

 

Also, goes to show you how awesome the seals are on the WE mag if it really exploded through the casing insteaded of blowing an o-ring or two and simply leaking out! :flamed:

 

I'd like to see some pictures of the mags after explosion.

Edited by ViciousV10s

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Not exponentially actually...volume is inversely proportianal to pressure; pV=nRT

 

If volume expands 3 fold, then pressure will be 1/3 of the original value.

 

Regardless, EVERY container with a resevoir of pressurized gas WILL explode if heated enough.

 

 

I'm not about go throw my WE M4 mag in the direct sunlight to bake but I feel pretty confident that with normal use and proper storage it won't be blowing up anytime soon.

 

Also, goes to show you how awesome the seals are on the WE mag if it really exploded through the casing insteaded of blowing an o-ring or two and simply leaking out! :flamed:

 

I'd like to see some pictures of the mags after explosion.

 

 

wow....just wow....I'm at a lost for words...

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I also wanted to mention how the WE proprietary design for loading nozzle and brass "chamber" is very well thought of.

 

Some people may dislike the design because it does not look quite as realistic as the WA "open chamber" and most modern GB designs, but as many things I work on in life, Function > Form is always one of the most important things to keep in mind. Considering that from what I've seen, the "open" vs "closed" bolt design is the only aesthetic aspect in which the WA > WE, I think it's a small detail in the greater overall picture and design.

 

The way the WE magazine seats perfcetly tight against brass "chamber", and the fact that the brass chamber does not move, creates a highly efficient and powerful system. Out of any GBB I've owned, especially other full-autos, the WE M4 DESTROYS them all in power and efficiency.

 

Cool-down, what cool-down?

 

Not shooting in cold weather? You must have a WA!

 

WE M4 > WA M4

Edited by ViciousV10s

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Hey all,

I'm very tempted to buy this gun but I just want to know, if it is worth going fully CO2 (with the 330-350 nozzle) or just stick to green gas? Ideally I'm looking for best cold weather performance (so it can be used as much as possible during the British climate aka cold). And also how many mags worth would I get out of CO2 and the same with propane. Thanks for any help! (new to the gbb rifle stuff).

 

HiTE

Edited by Hite

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Not exponentially actually...volume is inversely proportianal to pressure; pV=nRT

 

If volume expands 3 fold, then pressure will be 1/3 of the original value.

I believe that only holds true if the temperature remains constant. In this case temperature does not remain constant it increases. So even though a pistol mag has a smaller volume it's still a constant, since it's a vessel and same with the GBBr mags. Therefore, as temperature increases so does the pressure.

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OK. So we have excellent and exhaustive reasons why and how the WE mags explode. It might also help to explore how they could be made not to explode in typical operating climates/temperatures. It seems we genuinely have the knowledge and skills on this forum. If you leave pot metal out in sunshine in ambient temp of 40 celcius then the metal will hover around 55 celcius after about 10 mins exposure. So I'd guess the mags should be built to hold pressure safely up to a max of 60 Celcius and vent gas at 65 celcius. I would then target the mags to withstand an absolute maximum of say 70 celcius.

 

And by the way, one has exploded inside a Post Office out of sunshine. It's may also be pertinent that there are (currently) no reports of WA mags blowing up. Could this be why WA mags are so much more expensive than WE mags?- I don't know.

 

From the threads here, I guess WE will take action when someone gets hurt and when that happens the problem turns into an official health and safety issue. A dangerous strategy because if it happens, in a Health and Safety paranoid society such a the UK, just about ever Airsoft Site owner will ban WE M4 GBB weapons at their sites. I for one would sell my WE and so will many others if that happens.

 

We cannot rely on work-arounds- i.e. keep them in the shade. If I'm lying in an OP at 30 celcius in overhead sunshine, my mag will quickly heat up to around 45 and therefore I'd be at serious risk of injury- NOT ACCEPTABLE! My mag explode at well below that (approximately around 35 celcius) temperature.

Edited by bbstriker

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WA mags cost so much because of where they're made and who they're made by. They are only slightly more complex than WE mags. They also probably don't explode because they leak with the slightest bit of mistreatment on propane (for example, filling them with propane).

 

It's definitely an issue. Keeping your filled mags out of high-heat environments is the obvious and common sense solution, but the question of what exactly constitutes "high-heat" could be raised considering that like all gas guns the WE M4 is designed to work in warm environments and cold isn't exactly it's preferred operating environment. A safety valve however would in my opinion mostly just jack up the price of a mag and allow another point of failure for gas to leak out in normal conditions.

 

However this all might just be my misguided opinion spat-out in a sleep-deprived state since I still haven't seen a photo of exactly where one of the mags has failed.

 

 

 

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Valid heat concerns aside I need to know what we consider to be an acceptable seal. WETTI stated that trying to completely seal the mags is not a good idea as the design allows for high pressure bleeding. I recently had to dismantle and fix both my mags due to poor factory assembly; I can explain how if anyone is interested. Having fixed the first issue I submerged both filled mags in water to test and I have very slight leaks out of the top and bottom points of the long back seal. I have assumed this should not be the case, but taking the official statement I don't want to fully seal the mag. Suggestions/experience would be appreciated.

Edited by Marky [UE]

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our M4 mag internals are designed with escape channels for excessive pressure as a safety measure.

 

WETTI

 

With all due respect, where are the escape channels located in the magazine? If there exists a safety measure for excessive pressure (how much do you define excessive?) build up then why do magazines still explode from over excessive pressure? Clearly, the logical conclusion is that there is in fact, either no safety measure, or the so called escape channels aren't doing what they're designed to.

 

Anyways, it doesn't matter because it's only a matter of time before someone gets hurt (this includes damage to property) from exploding magazines. The manufacturer should realize that she is directly liable should the victim file a lawsuit, frivolous or otherwise. Add this to the fact that the manufacturer had prior knowledge that the magazines, a Catergory B Simple Pressure Vessel under the 1991 Safety Regulations (SI 1991/2749), did in fact fail due to the absence or failure of a safety device, and had not taken appropriate measures makes it even more detrimental for the defence. To be fair, the regulation does provide a defence of due negligence.

 

Well it pays to be safe than sorry.

 

You know how a lawsuit against your company can affect your image and the repercussions that follow. Listen to us on this one and make us safer magazines, please?

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...

It's definitely an issue. Keeping your filled mags out of high-heat environments is the obvious and common sense solution, but ...

 

 

To me this "solution" sounds like "keep your car off the road to avoid accidents".

"Do not drive your motorbike so you don't get injured".

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I believe that only holds true if the temperature remains constant. In this case temperature does not remain constant it increases. So even though a pistol mag has a smaller volume it's still a constant, since it's a vessel and same with the GBBr mags. Therefore, as temperature increases so does the pressure.

 

Again, for your uneducated people; pV=nRT

 

Go take a chemistry class or two. "R" is the only constant in that equation.

 

Pressure and Volume are both directly proportional to Temperature. Temperature can NOT remain constant if either volume or pressure values change. And vice versa for them all.

 

The size of the enclosure is NOT the "volume" of the gas. Volume is the amount of space the gas is actually occupying within the enclosure.

 

Every time you fill a mag with gas the actual volume within the mag changes, do to all the VARIABLES in the above equation, both on the mag and on the bottle/tank of gas being used to fill the mag.

 

Seriously, go learn something before trying to have an educated discussion.

 

I sill do not believe there is anything to be worried about with these WE M4 mags, they've been out for quite some time now and other than these stupid stories of mags being exposed to excessive sunlight and heat these mags are not just randomly exploding.

 

Just think about the GreenGas you can buy online these days. How long did it take for the older gas cans to get banned from online shipment ordering because of safety reasons?? and how many of them exploded and injured people?

 

You guys are worrying about nothing. Use and store your mags properly. The end.

Edited by ViciousV10s

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Again, for your uneducated people; pV=nRT

 

Go take a chemistry class or two. "R" is the only constant in that equation.

 

Pressure and Volume are both directly proportional to Temperature. Temperature can NOT remain constant if either volume or pressure values change. And vice versa for them all.

 

I don't want to start argument, but it's not right to dismiss what freq88 said, since it is valid in some way of thinking:

 

Suppose you start off at state 1, at P1, T1, V1. You goto some V2 = 3 V1 by some process. Only by assuming isothermal process (i.e., T1 = T2 = T), can you get P2(3V1) = NkT, P2 = (1/3)P1. You say that if you increase volume by factor of 3, you will decrease pressure by factor 1/3. This is true, only if the process by which you increased the volume is isothermal. Otherwise, your one equation of state (the ideal gas law) is not sufficient to solve for the final pressure or temperature.

 

However, since I think you are speaking of "two similarly prepared systems," both at the same temperature but one at three times the volume of the other, then the comparison is valid.

 

The size of the enclosure is NOT the "volume" of the gas. Volume is the amount of space the gas is actually occupying within the enclosure.

 

Every time you fill a mag with gas the actual volume within the mag changes, do to all the VARIABLES in the above equation, both on the mag and on the bottle/tank of gas being used to fill the mag.

 

I'm not chemist, but that's a hard thing to assume. Assuming it is still a gas, for it to not take the entire volume of the container requires one of two things: 1.) Intermolecular forces (i.e., van der Waals or whatever, arguably possibly), or 2.) a potential inside the container (which is arguably true, since there is gravity). The thing is, under the ideal gas assumption (the assumption you make by using PV=NkT), those things are both assumed zero. So, under those conditions, there is no reason why an ideal gas wouldn't take up the entire volume: there are no attractive forces stopping it: mean free path is infinite, until you collide with the wall, so the pressure is uniform everywhere along the container walls.

 

This is of course, ignoring phase transitions (so liquid to gas in this situation). Obviously, liquid will not take the volume of its container, but then again that situation cannot be described by ideal gas law.

 

That's as far as I know. But the fact that remains is that if temperature goes up, pressure goes up (by some relation) in most hydrostatic systems.

Edited by slu

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Again, for your uneducated people; pV=nRT

 

Go take a chemistry class or two. "R" is the only constant in that equation.

 

Pressure and Volume are both directly proportional to Temperature. Temperature can NOT remain constant if either volume or pressure values change. And vice versa for them all.

 

The size of the enclosure is NOT the "volume" of the gas. Volume is the amount of space the gas is actually occupying within the enclosure.

 

Every time you fill a mag with gas the actual volume within the mag changes, do to all the VARIABLES in the above equation, both on the mag and on the bottle/tank of gas being used to fill the mag.

 

Seriously, go learn something before trying to have an educated discussion.

 

I sill do not believe there is anything to be worried about with these WE M4 mags, they've been out for quite some time now and other than these stupid stories of mags being exposed to excessive sunlight and heat these mags are not just randomly exploding.

 

Just think about the GreenGas you can buy online these days. How long did it take for the older gas cans to get banned from online shipment ordering because of safety reasons?? and how many of them exploded and injured people?

 

You guys are worrying about nothing. Use and store your mags properly. The end.

Chill out, dude. Your attitude just makes you look stupid. Freq88 WAS TRYING to have an educated discussion. Too bad your immature response just negated everything you have to say.

 

I don't know whether poor craftsmanship or quality control (ie leaky mags) count as "escape channels". I'm not saying the WA are any better...in fact, they suck at keeping a seal. But one thing they got right was the lack of exploding mags. Why should WE be any different? I mean, what would you rather have? Exploding mags or non-exploding mags? I'm guessing this is one of the reasons that the WAs are sooo much heavier.

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Chill out, dude. Your attitude just makes you look stupid.

 

I was thinking the same :D

 

Fact is vicious we've heard too many stories of exploding mags. I for one would rather believe that than lie to myself that those are nothing more than bs. Come on, what would one gain from lying about exploding mags?

 

The known recorded temperature for WE mags to explode was at 40C, can Net Ronin confirm this? It wasn't just his, his friend's as well. I believe another member here had his explode at 35C? What's the max operating temperature WE's mags were designed to work at again? No specifications on this...

 

Assuming the mags suffer a catastrophic failure at 40C (propane vapor pressure 170ish PSIG), this would put WE mag's safety factor at only 1.3 assuming the max operating temperature is at room 27C (propane vapor pressure 130 PSIG, safety factor = 170/130). This is a already a conservative calculation and the safety factor is only dangerously diminished for every degree warmer. I'm sure ambient temperature is more than 27C during summer...

Edited by newcomer

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