WE Gas Blow Back M4A1 Carbine

[trdsupragt]

Hey guys, I'm looking to pick up an NPAS for my WE, but I see that there are two versions out there:

 

http://www.airsoftpost.com/product_info.ph...oducts_id=32112

http://www.airsoftpost.com/product_info.ph...oducts_id=32177

 

How do I know which version to get?

[MODDAN]

If your gun can utilize CO2 magazines, you've got a Gen2.

If not, you've got a Gen1.

[El Cactus Loco]

pics of this home made op rod plz?

[somegirls]

please take a look at this guys:

http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/inde...p;#entry2266374

[kojak]

trdsupragt: Look closely at this photo and compare it with the nozzle in your gun. Newer WE models and old models with the CO2 conversion kit will require a V2 nozzle.

 

So I installed my TMC nozzle; so far so good. The surface is poorly finished but it's at least three times as thick at the point where my stock CO2 nozzle and NPAS broke. I did have to put a dab of loctite at the base of the nozzle body, as well as on the end of the rod. It's made of white metal instead of brass and loosened up after a few test cycles.

 

 

Questions of the day:

 

Is anyone actually using the TSC guide rod to adjust their FPS?

 

I reinstalled my guide rod stabilizer, and managed to center the nozzle. Has anyone else put it back in?

 

If I don't squeeze the trigger sharply on semi, I get burst fire. Where's the guide to modifying the TSC trigger group?

[bbstriker]

If your gun can utilize CO2 magazines, you've got a Gen2.

If not, you've got a Gen1.

That's not right.

 

When I bought my WE M4 it was most definitely 100% gen 2 as it had Colt trades and re-inforced parts. It was only months later that CO2 conversion kits became available.

 

 

[danielsilva]

So I installed my TMC nozzle; so far so good. The surface is poorly finished but it's at least three times as thick at the point where my stock CO2 nozzle and NPAS broke. I did have to put a dab of loctite at the base of the nozzle body, as well as on the end of the rod. It's made of white metal instead of brass and loosened up after a few test cycles.

 

 

Questions of the day:

 

Is anyone actually using the TSC guide rod to adjust their FPS?

 

I reinstalled my guide rod stabilizer, and managed to center the nozzle. Has anyone else put it back in?

 

If I don't squeeze the trigger sharply on semi, I get burst fire. Where's the guide to modifying the TSC trigger group?

 

Thats good to know, i'll try to find somewhere to buy that nozzle to test it as i don't trust the NPAS one. Although i do have the TSC guide rod and use them i just don't use the adjuster as i fount it too prone to unjust itself during operation.

 

I've been using the stabilizer since day 1, just had to locktite it or else it would travel forward and cause problems. I did buy a few extra since not all give perfect results but found the QC on this part much better than what i found with the hop up rubbers.

 

Regarding the TSC trigger group you'll have to file a tiny section from the sear, i have it on my bookmarks at home though so unless someone comes and gives it to you i can only do it tomorrow.

[Bamse]

bbstriker: what moddan meant wasnt regarding what version of the gun itself. It's what RA-TECH call gen/v1 and gen/v2 when it comes to their nozzles.

[kojak]

So at a game a couple of weeks back I mentioned to a teammate (who is also a retailer) that the WE had pot metal trigger issues, and the only steel alternative didn't work very well. He seemed interested in the apparent market opportunity, and passed it along to a local manufacturer he has worked with who makes steel and titanium parts.

 

I was recently contacted with some additional questions, and in my limited knowledge I suggested that they simply get some brand new stock trigger parts and replicate them 1-1 in steel, including the hammer, sear, M4 trigger, and SCAR trigger.

 

Anything else I should let them know? They seem genuinely interested in the project.

[renegadecow]

An AEG hop and barrel adapter would be nice, but that's probably asking too much. Stronger ignition parts that work would be fantastic.

[DoubleTap-TAG]

So at a game a couple of weeks back I mentioned to a teammate (who is also a retailer) that the WE had pot metal trigger issues, and the only steel alternative didn't work very well. He seemed interested in the apparent market opportunity, and passed it along to a local manufacturer he has worked with who makes steel and titanium parts.

 

I was recently contacted with some additional questions, and in my limited knowledge I suggested that they simply get some brand new stock trigger parts and replicate them 1-1 in steel, including the hammer, sear, M4 trigger, and SCAR trigger.

 

Anything else I should let them know? They seem genuinely interested in the project.

I can't think of anything else but could you ask them to hurry up before my trigger falls apart again

[danielsilva]

So at a game a couple of weeks back I mentioned to a teammate (who is also a retailer) that the WE had pot metal trigger issues, and the only steel alternative didn't work very well. He seemed interested in the apparent market opportunity, and passed it along to a local manufacturer he has worked with who makes steel and titanium parts.

 

I was recently contacted with some additional questions, and in my limited knowledge I suggested that they simply get some brand new stock trigger parts and replicate them 1-1 in steel, including the hammer, sear, M4 trigger, and SCAR trigger.

 

Anything else I should let them know? They seem genuinely interested in the project.

 

Don't think the WE needs anything else to be made of steel, just the trigger pack would be a godsend.

[3vi1-D4n]

What I don't get is this:

 

On the Real Steel and the WA, the sears are oversized, and it takes a bit of pressure and pull to release the trigger. This is good, as its less pressure to wear the sears.

 

The WE has hardly surface/contact areas on the sears, so tolerances have to be tighter else the trigger could potentially not work (like TSC triggers). So why have WE designed it like what it is atm?

 

 

[danielsilva]

What I don't get is this:

 

On the Real Steel and the WA, the sears are oversized, and it takes a bit of pressure and pull to release the trigger. This is good, as its less pressure to wear the sears.

 

The WE has hardly surface/contact areas on the sears, so tolerances have to be tighter else the trigger could potentially not work (like TSC triggers). So why have WE designed it like what it is atm?

 

Maybe an aftermarket drop in redesigned trigger group is in order ?

[julietcharlie]

How about a two stage trigger.

[renegadecow]

So why have WE designed it like what it is atm?

They had to shrink the hammer because of the part that holds the nozzle running through the BCG effectively blocking its way. RS and WA hammers go all the way up and through the two large windows of the BCG.

[3vi1-D4n]

Yeah I see the shape, but the actual area of contact for semi-auto delay and auto is significantly smaller than that of the WA/RS designs. Those areas have been the primary problem areas of both wear of the WE triggers and fit of the TSC aftermarket ones.

[renegadecow]

It applies. Because the hammer is placed further back, the length of the sear and arm on the trigger are shortened which translates to shorter range of movement.

edit:

But it does lead to a smoother and shorter trigger travel.

Edited January 28, 2010 by renegadecow

[jesTer]

Does anyone know if I can replace the detent spring in the pistol grip (or for that matter, most of the other springs) with their RS counterparts?

 

Also... I screwed up. I took out the safety and now after reinstalling, full auto doesn't work anymore. The lever can be clicked to auto, but the trigger can't be pulled. Feels like it's still on safe. Semi auto works fine. Wondering what the heck I did wrong this time.

 

I actually don't mind a semi-only M4... but I'd like to know what I did to wreck the auto mechanism...

Edited January 28, 2010 by jesTer

[somegirls]

I cracked my spring as well and I used the spring of a gas lighter that pushes the firestone up. Worked flawlessly.

 

But I'm pretty sure a RS one will work too.

[Easy Tiger]

Just a quick question - with the newest version of the WE, have most of the problems been ironed out? Or is it probably more cost effective (in terms of time, money, and maintenance/repair effort) to get a WOC? I really love the way the WE seems to be shaping out, and also how fast they roll out improvements based on their close relationship to their customers. Just wondering if it's the right time to get one, or wait a bit more for the WE platform to mature like the Magna.

[kojak]

...and also how fast they roll out improvements based on their close relationship to their customers...

 

Whew, I had a good laugh at that.

 

Anyway they HAVE fixed a lot of the bugs, and for the new base price ($250 or so) it's an OK system. If I was to start over today, I'd probably get a 416 and some propane mags.

 

 

[Easy Tiger]

haha sorry

 

just by browsing this humongous thread i was under the impression that WE was actually responding to problems with their platform in a span of months, as compared to other manufacturers who usually take a year or more.

 

sorry if i'm wrong

[3vi1-D4n]

I guess its between the rock and a hard place for WE.

 

I do know that airsofters can be whiny and annoying but we do expect the best for the product we put our support in. We will give positive feedback if the manufacturer continually makes the changes we suggest.

 

Initially it seemed that they had excellent customer support. Free returns and parts replacement, new blowback units and etc.

 

But after 3 major revisions and then an new SCAR platform, the changes promised were either ineffective or no changes have been made to the critical issues. Then the support disappeared.

 

We can't help but feel used being alpha and beta testers for free...sounds like what Apple did to us with the iPods

 

Currently all new WE still have these problems:

 

- Nozzles breaking (thicker blowback units required, better fitting O-rings etc)

- floating valves breaking (new floating valve design required)

- Triggers worn (steel triggers required)

- Accuracy is *sh1t3*

- Rubber components seizing up during continual firing (tolerances/materials used and cooldown needs to be reconsidered, whole gas system-bolt weight - buffer spring tension needs to be tuned for better efficiency).

- Leaky mags (eventually)

 

 

While some of us have found workarounds, these issues have existed since V1 of their M4s and have not been corrected. In fact, I am getting better accuracy from my V1 barrel set than those from V3 guns.

 

The WE system is possibly the more robust and useful system compared to the WA system so far, but that is offsetted by the lack of improvement in their system in terms of durability. WEs have the potential to be near perfect, working indefinately if the right parts are in the right place, but it seems that the manufacturer either doesn't want to make the best product, which is really against their selling promise.

 

I do hope WE steps up to the game or else it will definately fall behind, because if KSC/KWA pumps out an M4 thats >450fps capable and is indestructable (which the new KSC/KWAs guns are) and are cheap (again the new KSC/KWAs are now much cheaper), then you know who we will end up backing.

Edited January 29, 2010 by 3vi1-D4n

[RayL]

Just a quick question - with the newest version of the WE, have most of the problems been ironed out? Or is it probably more cost effective (in terms of time, money, and maintenance/repair effort) to get a WOC? I really love the way the WE seems to be shaping out, and also how fast they roll out improvements based on their close relationship to their customers. Just wondering if it's the right time to get one, or wait a bit more for the WE platform to mature like the Magna.

 

 

Just wait. A couple more months and many new manufacturers will be releasing their own GBBR's. KWA has the most potential to be the best GBBR platform in terms of performance.

 

I wouldn't hold my breath for WE. They haven't fixed the problems 3vi1-D4n mentioned since their M4 V1 release and most likely never will.