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Lupus78

WE Gas Blow Back M4A1 Carbine

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Well, the thing is that I'll be replacing the stock, pistol grip and front end regardless, so I thought it'd end up being a tiny bit cheaper. The main issue is getting the receiver, hell, RS receivers seem cheaper than what's available. 

 

 

Receiver wise, you can get WE OEM ones reasonably cheap - www.milspecsolutions.co.uk have both uppers and lowers, and www.airsoftglobal.com has trademarked lowers for $68. Prime ones are seriously, terrifyingly expensive!

 

Assuming you buy the O/B kit, you'd still need (if I recall correctly) an upper and lower receiver, pistol grip, stock/buffer tube set up, forward assist, dust cover, charging handle, buffer lock, buffer lock spring, selector detent, selector detent spring, front and rear takedown pins, mag catch, outer barrel. Whilst those bits aren't all enormously expensive, it'll be a big PITA getting all the parts from one place - shipping costs, etc etc. Once all the parts and shipping are added together, it doesn't work out a whole load cheaper than just buying a gun.

 

I've priced it up a couple of times from Mispec, and the parts I'd need work out pretty much the price of a new CQBR, which I could sell the remains of as well. It probably could be done cheaper, but building from scratch is hardly ever the way to go in Airsoft - Ask mimesis about building a Hicapa without a donor gun :P

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Hmm I hear ye, wen you put it that way it hardly seems worth it anymore. And as you said, I can just sell all the parts I replace.

 

So would you reccomend getting a stock WE m4, or going with the RA-Tech custom? http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/other-gun/gas-blow-black-rifle/we/ra-tech-custom-m4a1-ras-gbb-rifle-semi-3rd-burst.html

 

I'm going to replace all the internals with steel regardless, so maybe it'd save me some cash/assembly. Then with that I'd replace the lower receiver with an engraved colt receiver, stock, grip and front end most likely. I'd be tempted to get some fancy monolithic upper-receiver too. 

 

The only issue with the RA-Tech is that it seems very sluggish when firing. I'd probably end up using CO2 anyway, but what could I do with the buffer to make it a bit snappier? I care more about the cycle rate than recoil.

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Yeah. Don't use the RA-Tech FCG. Frankly, I think it's appalling as not only have they changed the geometry, but for some crazy reason they actually lengthened the hammer. The effect of this is that the roller on the hammer rides the underside of the bolt with a lot more pressure than the standard hammer does, making the action more sluggish.

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Hmm I hear ye, wen you put it that way it hardly seems worth it anymore. And as you said, I can just sell all the parts I replace.

 

So would you reccomend getting a stock WE m4, or going with the RA-Tech custom? http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/other-gun/gas-blow-black-rifle/we/ra-tech-custom-m4a1-ras-gbb-rifle-semi-3rd-burst.html

 

I'm going to replace all the internals with steel regardless, so maybe it'd save me some cash/assembly. Then with that I'd replace the lower receiver with an engraved colt receiver, stock, grip and front end most likely. I'd be tempted to get some fancy monolithic upper-receiver too. 

 

The only issue with the RA-Tech is that it seems very sluggish when firing. I'd probably end up using CO2 anyway, but what could I do with the buffer to make it a bit snappier? I care more about the cycle rate than recoil.

 

I haven't owned one yet, so I wouldn't wanna make a recommendation myself - But plenty of owners seem to agree the stock WE's are a lot better these days, as well as RA-Tech parts being less than awesome. As for the colt receiver;

 

http://www.airsoftglobal.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=552_553&products_id=13900

 

Here's one AG made earlier :P My suggestion, going on past GBBR experiences, is run it stock until it breaks - Then replace the trigger group, either with stock WE (£40, in the UK) or get a steel set up from CWI if you can find them, or maybe Hephaestus? Basically whatever more knowledgeable people recommend, which seems to be CWI.

 

As for the cycle rate, I've used a mate's stock open bolt WE M4, and I was shocked at the cycle rate - Not far away from twice as quick as my KWA LM4, and I wouldn't call that sluggish at all.

 

Upper receiver wise, having looked into QQex's point a bit more, I'm not sure I'd wanna risk it myself... The slight chance of a clued up customs officer realising that I'm importing what's legally a section 5 firearm doesn't sound fun at all, even if I played the stupid card. 

 

 

 

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Stock-till-it-breaks will do I suppose, I mean my WE G39 is still holding up aside from the valve-locker breaking (1000s of rounds, not sure about previous owner). I just like the idea of having FS internals eventually :P

 

I think I'll get a local retailer to import one for me, technically individuals importing is now illegal here, although it doesn't seem to be enforced at all yet...

 

And yeah the cycle rate on stock WE M4s seems pretty good, maybe a bit better than the G39 from what I can tell.

 

I'm not sure what the law here is regarding importing a RS upper receiver, I should probably look into that...

Edited by AG1212

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I've managed to sell my LM4, so last night I took the plunge on (what I think at least) was a damn good deal;

 

Brand new (Sub<500 rounds, looks retail fresh from the pictures, including the mags) WE KAC Rail'd 14.5 M4, latest gen (3? 4?)

NPAS Fitted, original box, all tools and bits and bobs.

5 x Gen 2 mags

Element/ACM Scoutlight, Replica EOTech.

All told came to £450 and the Paypal fees - New would have cost me the same money but without any of the accessories, so reasonably pleased on the price, and the chap is dropping it off to me this evening. 

 

Cheers for the help so far all - Looking forward to getting my mitts on it!

 

Anyhow, I've got a few more reasonably simple questions..

 

14.5" Outer barrel, am I correct in thinking it's a 2 piece and thusly can be made 10.5"?

NPAS adjustment - Assuming I'm looking at the front face of the bolt/nozzle, gas key on top, which way is more power, which way is less?

Hop system - How necessary is a change of rubber? I use .3's, however I've got .4's which I'd like to try. I've got a game Sunday, so really I'd just like to know if the stock rubber is useable, or needs replacing straight off? If so I'll pop to Wolf or PAS this evening.

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I've managed to sell my LM4, so last night I took the plunge on (what I think at least) was a damn good deal;

 

Brand new (Sub<500 rounds, looks retail fresh from the pictures, including the mags) WE KAC Rail'd 14.5 M4, latest gen (3? 4?)

NPAS Fitted, original box, all tools and bits and bobs.

5 x Gen 2 mags

Element/ACM Scoutlight, Replica EOTech.

All told came to £450 and the Paypal fees - New would have cost me the same money but without any of the accessories, so reasonably pleased on the price, and the chap is dropping it off to me this evening. 

 

Cheers for the help so far all - Looking forward to getting my mitts on it!

 

Anyhow, I've got a few more reasonably simple questions..

 

14.5" Outer barrel, am I correct in thinking it's a 2 piece and thusly can be made 10.5"?

NPAS adjustment - Assuming I'm looking at the front face of the bolt/nozzle, gas key on top, which way is more power, which way is less?

Hop system - How necessary is a change of rubber? I use .3's, however I've got .4's which I'd like to try. I've got a game Sunday, so really I'd just like to know if the stock rubber is useable, or needs replacing straight off? If so I'll pop to Wolf or PAS this evening.

 

I saw that one, and thought it was a steal ;)

 

Barrel is 2 piece. Splits down as you say.

Npas - If memory serves, it's clockwise (looking at the boltface to lengthen the valve), and drop FPS.

Stock hop rubber is ok, but not great (very hard). I've replaced mine with a Firefly Soft - Which I still find overhops a .3 on a minimum setting - but I've not put a lot of rounds through it yet. Gonna try .4, even if it makes my wallet cry :P.

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A quick question. Is there any reason for a stock gun to mangle nozzles? I've not bought the gun yet, but I've been told that it constantly needs the nozzle replacing. Is there something that might cause that apart from carelessness?

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Note that if you add the RA Aluminuim nozzle with NPAS, your FPS will be all over the place..ive found mine to jump from 320-366-310-315..you can see its not veryy consistant at all!

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Hi all, picked up a 416 recently and really enjoying it thus far! About 300 rds through, no problems as yet!

 

Range is pretty decent, getting 50m good accuracy with .28s and the bb's are carrying on a bit more after that, max range maybe 60m. Looking at a few different inner barrel setups and hopup combos to try maximise the range.

Trying to get a hold of a REAPS bucking. Any ideas where it's in stock? Any UK or european stockists?

 

Managed to buy a maple leaf bucking, picked up the 75 and 80o versions, are these any good?

If I can score 4 more mags should be able to give it a good testing over a weekend event, will be using .3s at around 350 fps (350 w/.2s) .

J.

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Hi all, picked up a 416 recently and really enjoying it thus far! About 300 rds through, no problems as yet!

 

Range is pretty decent, getting 50m good accuracy with .28s and the bb's are carrying on a bit more after that, max range maybe 60m. Looking at a few different inner barrel setups and hopup combos to try maximise the range.

Trying to get a hold of a REAPS bucking. Any ideas where it's in stock? Any UK or european stockists?

 

Managed to buy a maple leaf bucking, picked up the 75 and 80o versions, are these any good?

If I can score 4 more mags should be able to give it a good testing over a weekend event, will be using .3s at around 350 fps (350 w/.2s) .

J.

 

I use a Maple Leaf 75 degree in both my 416 and AKS-74un and have found them to be much better than the REAPS buckings which I absolutely despised since I was too lazy to mod the barrel window.

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Have been experimenting with an ORGA Magnus wide bore barrel (6.23mm, 363mm length) in my WE 416, along with a maple leaf 75o bucking and so far I'm quite impressed with the results.

As with any new bucking there was some bedding in time and the first 150ish rounds had the occasional flyer and round hooking left or right, but it really seems to have bedded in well now and works consistently.

 

I have yet to put it on an exactly measured range to test overall accuracy but having played with it in a woodland milsim game I came away smiling after reaching out to 50-60 metres accurately.

Will be able to measure the distance on the 18th and test the setup further, if I have access to a video camera better than my iPhone ill grab some footage.

 

I have an 80o maple leaf I'd like to try out but I'm not sure if it would improve things any, it may even be worse.

 

I'm currently running 0.3g blaster devils through her, on propane at 350 fps (w/ 0.2s).

 

1 thing I did find was that the GBBr does not like the rain. A lot of gas vent, and the hopup was affected, but other than that extremely pleased thus far.

 

Edit: wanted to mention aswell I've just finished (easily) fitting an RATECH magic pin on the 416 and it has made the GBBr feel completely rock solid. An excellent, easy, upgrade and big thanks to Iain @milspec solutions for letting me know as soon as they were in stock and dispatching it to me in quick time!

Edited by Number5
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IMG_1323-1.jpg

 

Here's my WE 4168 (open bolt)

I've put a little over 700 BB's through it and I've had no real problems with it except I cracked the nozzle after about 150rds because it double fed a BB. I noticed a little inconsistency while playing but was able to finish the day.

The only changes I've done except for a new stock nozzle is I added a 6.03 455mm barrel and Maple leaf hop bucking. I havent zeroed in the hop up (Adjusting it is a pain) and I cant give the exact numbers on improvement on FPS and distance but definitely noticed the improvement. From what I can remember from my last chrono I think I clocked in at 360fps on 134A 28-30 Deg C. 82-85F  .25BB's

Aside from the cracked nozzle I havent had any other problems since day 1.

 

I wonder how many rounds before the bolt wears out the bolt catch (or is it the other way around?)

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Training day today using the 416 and plenty of testing for the ORGA barrel.

Put around 800 rounds through her today. Running at around 345 fps with 0.2g but using 0.3g blaster devils.

 

I will start by echoing charle 6, the hopup is pain to adjust! As I'm sure regular users know. Had it roughly set but didn't get a real chance to sit and carefully adjust it at distance.

I started the day with the 6.23 WB and a 75o maple leaf bucking. Worked quite well but there was some inconsistency. Occasionally there would be 2-3 rounds with zero hopup? Not sure why.

But overall the accuracy was useable and at the same 50m ish mark, just lacked consistency.

 

Accuracy at up to 40m was impressive. Nice straight flight path, decent accuracy at this distance.

 

After lunch I slapped in the 80o maple leaf bucking. This gave over hop on the setting the 75 had been on. Adjusted it down and the range went to 55 meters accuracy (man sized hits more often than not I'd say 6 out of 10 with a few flyers).

Range was measured using paceing so cannot give a very exact distance but fairly happy with the 55m, actual flight of the bb went out to 60+ meters (Around 65), again paced out, but accuracy was diminished, 3 out of 10 I'd say but achievable, I think also a few shots went a touch further but cannot positively confirm.

 

I feel the consistency needs improving, I'm happy with the resuls as a whole but would like to tighten the accuracy. I wasn't able to do any grouping tests using paper targets so i cant give any results on this. Tests done shooting people or people width trees ;)

 

The ORGA doesnt give a massive improvement, slight increase in range, 3-5meters perhaps but that can give the edge. If anything it's slightly more inconsistent But it's max range has increased.

I plan to try improve consistency with the hopup bucking and nub. Got a few ideas to try, R-hop etc.

the ORGA barrel does have a MASSIVE hopup window and I think this can be exploited to give better results. The maple leaf bucking has about 2mm of space either side of the contact patch in the hopup window which is probably introducing the inconsistency to shots, if I can find a better hopup rubber/r-hop to use the larger window it should hopefully improve bb seating (consistency) in the bucking and better contact giving better hop.

 

Will keep you up to date as I go.

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Heres my custom WE M733. I have a modified RS Bushmaster upper receiver as well as RS buffer tube, castle nut, stock, stock plate, pistol grip, front grips, front sight, and some various other small bits I mgiht have forgotten about.

 

Es5zbhW.jpg

 

 

Ive got probably over 15,000 to 20,000 rounds through this easily. The only internal upgrades Ive done are an RA-Tech aluminum nozzle (I would consider this more or less a necessity for a WE M4 based system). everything else is going strong still. It was more then accurate enough with the stock barrel and hopup that I didnt want to change it, and I didnt bother upgrading the trigger components because they're so cheap that if one of them breaks Ill just replace it. I haven't had to replace anything yet though, and I have used this gun every weekend for the past year or so (Because I had already used this well before I turned it into a 733)

 

I have two more custom WE AR's  that Im slowly working on. Another M16a2, and a Colt 601 (Though I might just settle for an early M16a1)

Edited by Brigg
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My C7A2 in its current configuration, featuring an AN/PVS-502 NOD.  :)

 

9721376430_055942f8b5_b.jpg

 

This 502, and another like it, is on loan to my team, the South Manitoba Rifles, from Operation East Wind, the annual nine day mil-sim event we participate in. For that event, held in Oklahoma, we'll mount them on C7A1 rifles, which are correct for the cold war period East Wind seeks to recreate.

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Anyone know where to find a nice CTR stock and MOE pistol grip for the WE M4A1, dont have to be RS and not more than 60 bucks for both.... 

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You should be able to fit the real deal no sweat. I have a real Tango Down on mine. You just have to track down that H&K part.

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