Lupus78 Posted November 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 (edited) Here's more pics of my gun. And about being a winner - Feels like it. It's definitely impressive both physically and by it's smooth operation. But the final judgment is to be determined when this gun sees some action in skirmishes and it's accuracy can be tested properly. Hopup for example remains a mystery. I'm eagerly waiting reviews from people who can provide this kind of information. In any case I feel we have a great platform here for a wonderfully skirmishable GBB rifle. Wupjak? Jin? Edited November 12, 2008 by Lupus78 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jin15 Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 Well.... mine arrived this morning! I'll have a full review up later tonight, but after firing about 500 rounds through mine there are a few initial comments I feel comfortable making about it before I do a full review... 1) External build quality is fantastic, far superior to any full metal AEG like G&P and others. The aluminum body is the most realistic feeling M4 body I've ever seen on an airsoft gun. All metal external parts look very real steel and feel high quality. The plastic forgrip, stock, and pistol grip all feel more like nylon fiber than plastic. VERY realistic. Zero wobble on the stock or foregrip either. 2) The internals appear very robust and smartly designed. No potmetal here, all steel brass, and aluminum. The CNC'd steel bolt weighs substantially less than the WA M4 bolt and feels much higher quality... I doubt you could ever break it even with years of CO2 use. The internal design seems like a very good hybrid of real steel and airsoft design. Very similar to real steel in the takedown but with a feeding and gas delivery system that is more practical for airsoft than the totally RS replicated WA system. The big solid parts and the lack of any tiny little easily breakable parts make the whole system seem very robust. 3) The magazine... oohh god! The magazine! Time to rethink everything you ever thought you knew about airsoft gas gun mags. This is the only airsoft gas gun mag I've ever seen that wasn't a heavy chunk of potmetal. It is extremely light weight (only a tiny bit heavier than an AEG mag) and I can't find any potmetal on the thing. The shell is lightweight and seems to be constructed like a standard AEG mag and I have no concerns about it's durability. Mag holds enough gas for 2 full mags worth of BBs no problem. There's very little in the way of cool down even if you dump a whole mag in one burst on full auto. Also nice, there is a switch on the top of the magazine that allows you to enable or disable the bolt catch as you please. Like everyone else who has gotten a WE M4 my mag leaked badly right out of the box. But after spraying some silicone oil on the seals and shooting and refilling the mag with propane half a dozen times the leaks have completely gone away, no problems at all now. All in all the mag is without a doubt the best designed airsoft gas gun mag I've ever seen. This mag will make you rethink everything you ever knew about airsoft gas gun mags. You'll be able to carry just as many of these mags into the field as you would AEG mags without feeling weighed down. 4) Speaking of propellant... the only problem I've had with my WE M4 so far is that it does not like to feed reliably on 134a gas. No problems at all with propane/green gas, but I have gotten quite a bit of non-feeding shots when I used 134a gas in it. 5) When it comes to actually shooting, this gun is a blast to shoot! The recoil is a wee bit less than that of the Western Arms M4, but such is to be expected due to it's solid full metal construction and steel bolt that likely dampens the recoil somewhat. Still though, the recoil is darn powerful and shakes the bejesus out of your arms when shooting. I highly doubt you could use airsoft grade optics on this gun for very long without them going haywire or just breaking completely. The recoil is strong enough that I'd say only real steel grade optics will be usable on this gun! 6) Lastly, the hopup is fully adjustable and after a little spray of silicone oil the hopup wheel adjusts quite smoothly on my WE M4. Other's have mentioned not being able to turn their hopup right out of the box, and I had the same problem, but a little spray of silicone oil cleared it right up and although stiff to adjust (meaning it won't come unset from the recoil when the gun is shooting) the hopup is fully adjustable. I will have a full review up later tonight, but for now I feel very comfortable in saying that after my initial experience with my WE M4 I see no reason at all that anyone in their right mind would pay $500 to $1,000 for a Western Arms or Inokatsu M4 that is as far as I can tell of lesser quality in all respects. This gun is just light years ahead of anything else WE has ever produced and at a price point of $340 for the gun and $30 for spare mags I am now confident that this will be the rifle that brings GBB back to the masses. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chas Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 To sum it up: if these can shoot as far as AEGs, say good bye to AEGs and call back the old-schoolers! Slu: I do know that. Look around you: most of us cant buy RS accesories in our own countries (thank god) and if you can find a RS modstock for 28$, like Element's, Id like to see it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lupus78 Posted November 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 (edited) Jin: Wonderful to hear! I've been actually a bit cautious of adding too much superlatives, since I haven't experienced the WA rifle. I've been really eager to hear comments from people who have experienced the Western Arms equivalent. And great thing you solved the "The Mystery of the Hopup"! I'll start playing with silicone right away... And I agree about the magazine. It seems really robust after a while of use. First the light weight made it feel a bit cheap I guess. But you're truly right about it's robustness and usefulness of beeing so light. I really won't mind carrying a bunch of them, or dropping them accidentally. Mine also stopped leaking after I had emptied it, as I told earlier. I sprayd some silicone inside the valve while keeping it open with finger and then refilling and shooting some more. Leak stopped. Shooting with this thing is just about best thing I've ever experienced in airsoft. The recoil combined to metallic banging and clanking is something you have to LOVE. Edited November 12, 2008 by Lupus78 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
slu Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 (edited) To sum it up: if these can shoot as far as AEGs, say good bye to AEGs and call back the old-schoolers! Slu: I do know that. Look around you: most of us cant buy RS accesories in our own countries (thank god) and if you can find a RS modstock for 28$, like Element's, Id like to see it. Not sure what you mean by thank god, but I do understand your concern if you don't want real parts, for all types of reasons. But, like I said, a lot of airsoft stuff is "real steel spec." I'm not even totally sure what the difference between a real buffer tube and an airsoft buffer tube is, whether it be threading or diameter, but with some luck I'm sure you can find an "airsoft" buffer tube with proper receiver threads. I'm just stating my opinion, which is that if WE implements the changes you propose, I would be far less likely to get one of these. Edited November 12, 2008 by slu Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lupus78 Posted November 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 (edited) Airsoft Buddy: At the moment my only wish is that there were parts available that we could use to change the power of the gun easily. Changing the barrel seems the only option currently. Different countries have different kind of limits and there is variation even locally. Some places might allow only 1 joule power (especially CQB areas) and others even 1.6 joules. Also the power of the CO2 magazines should be equal to standard gas magazines with green gas. This would enable us to use the same setup in our guns without needs to modify it when using different type of magazines. I think that WE just jumped to the "Big League" with this line of rifles. There's no going back to AEGs for me. When CO2 mags arrive, I hope I will be able to play with it in the wintertime too. Not just when it's warm enough. Edited November 12, 2008 by Lupus78 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
slu Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 (edited) It's great to hear these positive reports from Lupus, Jin, and others. If you guys ever get adventurous or run into loads of spare time, I'd love to see a full dissassemble/assemble guide. Edited November 12, 2008 by slu Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mirska Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 To sum it up: if these can shoot as far as AEGs, say good bye to AEGs and call back the old-schoolers! Slu: I do know that. Look around you: most of us cant buy RS accesories in our own countries (thank god) and if you can find a RS modstock for 28$, like Element's, Id like to see it. Allmost all major manufactures (G&P,G&G,Guarder,CA) have made their stocks,handguards and things like that in RS specs for YEARS now. Even the first marui M4 telestock fits on a RS buffer. So in that enlightment im very very happy that the WE is in RS specs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LordElpus Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 I was hoping this was going to be totally ######. Oh well, i guess it's time to start selling stuff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jin15 Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 Allmost all major manufactures (G&P,G&G,Guarder,CA) have made their stocks,handguards and things like that in RS specs for YEARS now. Even the first marui M4 telestock fits on a RS buffer. So in that enlightment im very very happy that the WE is in RS specs. Indeed! I just tried putting a King Arms VLTOR style modstock on my WE M4's buffer tube and it fit perfectly. Not too tight, not too loose, just perfect. And oh yeah, one more note about the magazine before I do a full review... With the Western Arms M4 I used to own I'd never dream of dropping the mag straight onto the ground when empty, it seemed like it would break very easily... and same goes for every gas pistol mag I've ever had too. But you can throw that fragile gas mag image out the window with these WE M4 mags! They are just incredible in their quality and construction. I've been dropping this mag straight onto the floor after shooting all morning and I have zero concerns about this mag ever breaking if dropped onto the ground. It feels just like a high quality M4 AEG mag and weighs less than a fully loaded M4 hi-cap mag. Best. Gas. Gun. Mag. EVER. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
xx-treme Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 My magazine has also stopped leaking now that I have refueled it acoupple of times. And I can also just say that this gun is well worth the money! Stocked up with gas Quote Link to post Share on other sites
m98man Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 (edited) AHH I CANNOT POSSIBLY SELL MY STUFF FAST ENOUGH! Jesus I must have it! hahaha oh boy oh boy oh boy Anyone want to buy $250 of stuff from me? xD Serious hatred goes out to Jin and Lupus for the previews... Now I'm going to spend even MORE money on airsoft >.> I kid. Edited November 12, 2008 by m98man Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thepunisher Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 Prepare for money storm airsoftbuddy! As I'm a 100% CQB guy, I can't decide whether to get one from airsoftbuddy (waayy too hot on fps but comes with CQB barrel – means just for wall decoration until there's a way to reduce the fps) or WGC (acceptable fps but no CQB barrel). Hope there's a replacement part to control the fps. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bareknuckle Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 (edited) Lupus, your M4 looks awesome. Can I post a pic of it on another forum to show what can be done to this gun? Oh, and the gun uses clockwise threading, right? That means if I wanted to get a Noveske Firepig, I should get this one, right? http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php?...roducts_id=2418 In my opinion, the WE M4 needs it. I mean, seriously, if it can amplify the sound of an AEG (which makes very little sound to begin with), think about how loud it could make a GBB rifle! Edited November 12, 2008 by Bareknuckle Quote Link to post Share on other sites
m98man Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 Lupus, your M4 looks awesome. Can I post a pic of it on another forum to show what can be done to this gun? Oh, and the gun uses clockwise threading, right? That means if I wanted to get a Noveske Firepig, I should get this one, right? http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php?...roducts_id=2418 In my opinion, the WE M4 needs it. I mean, seriously, if it can amplify the sound of an AEG (which makes very little sound to begin with), think about how loud it could make a GBB rifle! You spoilsport!! That's what I was going to do!!! haha you, me, and fifty other people, anyway... xD Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bareknuckle Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 Well, it's not me who's getting the M4 exactly, it's a friend of mine, and he's wavering over whether the Firepig is worth it or not. Right now he's leaning towards not getting one, if that makes you feel better. Tell me how well it works when you do it! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
m98man Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 heh fun stuff Airsoft Buddy are there any more of the original ones left or are they all for sale for $360+shipping now? If they have any of the special packages I'd like to get one before they run out, but if they're all out I don't have much choice, do I? xD Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jin15 Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 (edited) Ahh... I spoke a wee bit too soon about the internal parts. The one part I was worried about failing has failed in under 500 rounds. Had the gun less than 6 hours and shot less than 500 rounds through it on green gas and 134a gas only and the bolt stop has broken... The gun now fires once and the bolt locks back and the only way to get the bolt to go forward again is to take down the upper receiver to dislodge the bolt from the bolt stop. So Airsoft Buddy, think you could send me a replacement bolt stop since I seem to have gotten a faulty one? Edited November 12, 2008 by Jin15 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
m98man Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 Eek! I'd say first company that comes out with a reinforced bolt stop is going to get rich hahaha thanks for the heads up though Jin! I wonder what it's going to take to make a bolt stop that is consistently durable... All the manufacturers seem to be greatly underestimating the force the bolt stop is receiving each time it's employed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
junior Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 I wonder why it's so hard to make a bolt stop similar to the ones used on RS AR-15's. Ones that wont break... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris North Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 Can you still fire, or is it now totally unusable, Jin? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
massoh2 Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 Jin was having too much fun xD From the stress tests to the mag drops, I'm hardly surprised Hope AirsoftBuddy quickly helps you with the promised replacements Jin! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gigueand Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 (edited) Ahh... I spoke a wee bit too soon about the internal parts. The one part I was worried about failing has failed in under 500 rounds. Had the gun less than 6 hours and shot less than 500 rounds through it on green gas and 134a gas only and the bolt stop has broken... The gun now fires once and the bolt locks back and the only way to get the bolt to go forward again is to take down the upper receiver to dislodge the bolt from the bolt stop. So Airsoft Buddy, think you could send me a replacement bolt stop since I seem to have gotten a faulty one? I honestly can't say I am surprised. Airsoft companies never put forth the time needed to effectively test a product before it hits the market. We've already seen this so amply demonstrated by the WA M4 and now it looks like the WE M4 is following suit. Honestly, no prototype should be sent forth into final production until at least 20,000 (and that is conservative, I'd favor 100,000) rounds have been put through it, much less 500. The WE M4 looks awesome, and I look forward to being an owner some day (crosses fingers), but in my decade plus of paintball play I've never encountered manufacturers as careless as those associated with airsoft. Hopefully Airsoft Buddy will follow through with the top notch customer service he/it has been promising. Edited November 12, 2008 by Gigueand Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris North Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 At this point we can't be sure if this bolt stop failure is the exception or the rule yet, though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
m98man Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 I wonder why it's so hard to make a bolt stop similar to the ones used on RS AR-15's. Ones that wont break... I wonder if a RS AR-15 bolt stop would work? I don't know enough about the internals of the AR-15 or the WE M4 to know if that is ridiculous or not... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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