snorkelman Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 (edited) Ive no real interest (or bias) towards either - already got a couple of SPs and as I'm not really an armalite fan thats enough blowback armalites for me. My 2 cents - third-party upgrade part support is all very well if the upgrades are an optional 'value added' extra, but any gun that relies on them to sort basic reliability/functionality issues needs questions asked of its original manufacturer. In a worst case scenario the original gun ends up little more than a worked example of 'how all the upgrade parts go together to build a completely new gun' that gets chucked in the cardboard box at time of purchase to stop the box blowing blowing away in the wind. Now the WA doesnt strike me as that bad, but it does have the look of a gun that'll have all the usual overpriced suspects rubbing their hands in glee at all the overpriced *suitcase* they can flog just to get it working as it should, in whch case its the gun they'll inevitably favour. Edited January 21, 2009 by snorkelman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rottenotto Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Lets keep it a little more than a fanboy thread here Its a mindset issue we are all seeing here. WA owners swear by the WA because perhaps they take the weapon's "dimensional" realism as their enjoyment. While WE owners swear by their WE because its cheap, practical and more "realistic" when actually using it on the field, and hence thats their enjoyment. Essentially a difference of opinion between the posers and the skirmishers. So why argue which is *better*? We are comparing apple and oranges here. I dont think its apples and oranges at all. Ive now owned both (WE & WA). The WE is better. As snorkelman correctly said/posted, people will passionately support/defend whatever they own (cars, airsoft guns, whatever). However this isnt "fanboyism" speaking. Im being open minded. Do I wish the WE was more realistic? Have a more realistic looking bolt? A trigger group that was just like the real Armalite? Of course!! But lets be realistic. I had custom WA Infinty pistols with OBSCENE amounts of money into them. They looked the dog's danglers. And in the end a stock KSK G19 absolutely destroyed my "custom" guns out of the box. In every way. To me, the WE is the KSC G19 of the GBB rifle wars. It really does no wrong at ANY price. In fact if the WE were priced higher than the WA, I would buy it - after owning both guns. I too want TOTAL visual realism, but I will never again suffer with a temperamental gun that is ALWAYS broken or in need of something to work properly (or at all). Just my observations and experience Quote Link to post Share on other sites
3vi1-D4n Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Fair enough mate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kai_Wolf Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Has anyone purchased one of these mods yet? Does it make a huge different with cycling at all? Please do let me know! Happy new years guys . Here is some news about WE after market parts. It is a new roller bearing replacing the one on top of the bolt carrier. It the product of GS(Gun Shop), t the product of GS(Gun Shop), a new airsoft customization studio. They are keeping an open mind on product or design suggestion. The Roller bearing should cost between $10-15usd only. I met one of the GS engineer by chance on a skirmish yesterday. I suggested to him make a DD MK18 RIS II "Barrel ring(the ring that replace the barrel nut)" for WE, so that we replica users can fit our DD rail on the M4 happily. He reply me with a Email saying that it is not a bad idea and they could get their hands on it when they got the measurement of the real steel DD Barrel ring(nut). HKC Omega replica on WE Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rottenotto Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 ^ I ordered the roller bearing. Im waiting for it to come in. Ill let you know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Horsem4n Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 it wont make a big difference. its more of a replacement than an upgrade being the fact that the gun will still fire fine if the wheel seizes, well, maybe a little slowly, but it wont make the gun stop functioning. the bearing wheel on the other hand bay take more to junk up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
accuracy Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 (edited) "More realistic looking bolt" I actually think the WE looks very good as well. It actually has the holes in it, like on the colt, unlike the ugly fake ones of the WA. And in the pictures, i dont' like how the WA bolt has the look that it was painted over with gray paint. i guess cuz it looks shinier. Edited January 21, 2009 by accuracy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lupus78 Posted January 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 (edited) ...but I will never again suffer with a temperamental gun that is ALWAYS broken or in need of something to work properly (or at all). Exactly the same reason I've chosen WE instead of WA. I wanted a gun that I don't have to upgrade all the time and that works with just basic maintenance. All you might need some day is some simple spare parts but at least they're easy to get and don't cost much. So far WE has been a great choice for me. It's really great to have a rather reliable gun that I can depend on when skirmishing and not having to worry too much about leaking mags or feeding problems that can really ruin games. As soon as the weather gets warmer, I'll be able to put my gun to real tests while skirmishing outdoors. And about the realism, I'm more to "suspension of disbelief" than for nitty-gritty details inside. Using the gun feels real enough for me. I love it every minute... Edited January 21, 2009 by Lupus78 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
source1974 Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 I have both , the WA M4 CQB, and 2 WE M4, I played with both, and in my opinion the WA sounds more realistic, the feeling it's more exciting, the blowback it's stronger, and I haven't any problem yet, anyway, I have a big problem.... the magazines are so expensive and they are so havy, you can't carry 10 WA mags in the vest that easy. I only have 2 mags for the WA. I also have two WE, and 12 mags, and at last, my primary weapon it's the WE, why? Becouse I can carry 10 mags in the vest whitout problem, they are lighter, and if one mags falls, maybe it's breakes, or maybe not.... but it's not the same lose 38$ than lossing 108$... Even when the feeling of the WA looks much better to me... at last, what people wants it's having fun, and with the WE you can have a lot of fun, even buy 2 weapons, for the price of one WA. The only think a like better from the WA it's the stronger blowBack, but I'm sure that someone in the future it's going to release a kit to upgrade the blow back and make it more stronger. Also I like the sound from the WA , but it's not the most important when you are playing, so those are just little details that are not enought important to chose a WA instead of a cheaper and more reliable WE. Sorry about my English. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwinTurboCH Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 I have both , the WA M4 CQB, and 2 WE M4, I played with both, and in my opinion the WA sounds more realistic, the feeling it's more exciting, the blowback it's stronger, and I haven't any problem yet, anyway, I have a big problem.... the magazines are so expensive and they are so havy, you can't carry 10 WA mags in the vest that easy. I only have 2 mags for the WA. I also have two WE, and 12 mags, and at last, my primary weapon it's the WE, why? Becouse I can carry 10 mags in the vest whitout problem, they are lighter, and if one mags falls, maybe it's breakes, or maybe not.... but it's not the same lose 38$ than lossing 108$... Even when the feeling of the WA looks much better to me... at last, what people wants it's having fun, and with the WE you can have a lot of fun, even buy 2 weapons, for the price of one WA. The only think a like better from the WA it's the stronger blowBack, but I'm sure that someone in the future it's going to release a kit to upgrade the blow back and make it more stronger. Also I like the sound from the WA , but it's not the most important when you are playing, so those are just little details that are not enought important to chose a WA instead of a cheaper and more reliable WE. Sorry about my English. Thanks for the subjective view of both, makes me glad I picked the WE now Don't worry about the english Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rottenotto Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 (edited) Well, as for "50 round magazines", I just got my reply from UNcompany,.....oh well. "Dear sir, We are sorry about that we have made a mistake, it is a 30 rds magazine. Regards, Sales, UN Company." Also......... Again, somebody saying that the WE has weaker blowback?? I have had both M4's, the WE does not have weaker blowback than the WA. For the people (like above) who say this, do you have the "dumbed down" version with only 320fps output?? Or the original version with 450fps? Are you being deceived by the feather light plastic body of the Western Arms? Creating the illusion of greater blowback? (Firing mine felt like my old Hudson GBB Grease Gun.) Have you fired your WE in summer months? Im sure you have fired the WA in summer months, but this gun just came out in winter. It needs 70 degree ambient temp to be optimum. Can you really compare? Are you keeping an eye on part #122?? is yours worn? This would kill your blowback if its worn. Just wondering. My WE kicks so hard and sharp, its ridiculous. (and again, I have owned 2 Escort/Shoei guns). I will make a movie if you like. Edited January 21, 2009 by rottenotto Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Carsten Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 With my Krytox lube and other mods, the gun hits so hard and is so lively, you just giggle. You told about that Krytox lube, that it won't freeze up that fast so the gun will fire longer(?) and smoother, right? What about graphite-based lube? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rottenotto Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 With my Krytox lube and other mods, the gun hits so hard and is so lively, you just giggle. You told about that Krytox lube, that it won't freeze up that fast so the gun will fire longer(?) and smoother, right? What about graphite-based lube? Absolutely. I can blast through mag after mag without the venting and gassing. And that is at 60 degree temps. The gun will be flawless in summer weather. It would freeze up and lock up before the Krytox when pushed hard. Still nowhere as bad (venting) as my WA was. The Western Arms I guess did look more realistic, all that smoke pouring out the ejection port Google for info about Krytox. It is not like any other lube. Its synthetic and has the lowest coefficient of friction of anything you could use - plus the widest operating temp range. Beware of silicone lubes "containing Krytox". They dont have enough Krytox to be effective. I am also using a smear of Krytox grease in the brass cylinder. The gun is working soooo good right now. Im happy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
slu Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Absolutely. I can blast through mag after mag without the venting and gassing. And that is at 60 degree temps. The gun will be flawless in summer weather. It would freeze up and lock up before the Krytox when pushed hard. Still nowhere as bad (venting) as my WA was. The Western Arms I guess did look more realistic, all that smoke pouring out the ejection port Google for info about Krytox. It is not like any other lube. Its synthetic and has the lowest coefficient of friction of anything you could use - plus the widest operating temp range. Beware of silicone lubes "containing Krytox". They dont have enough Krytox to be effective. I am also using a smear of Krytox grease in the brass cylinder. The gun is working soooo good right now. Im happy. You mean the sticks of Krytox? The stuff is quite expensive grease. What specific places did you lube up? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IBICO Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Absolutely. I can blast through mag after mag without the venting and gassing. And that is at 60 degree temps. The gun will be flawless in summer weather. It would freeze up and lock up before the Krytox when pushed hard. Still nowhere as bad (venting) as my WA was. The Western Arms I guess did look more realistic, all that smoke pouring out the ejection port Google for info about Krytox. It is not like any other lube. Its synthetic and has the lowest coefficient of friction of anything you could use - plus the widest operating temp range. Beware of silicone lubes "containing Krytox". They dont have enough Krytox to be effective. I am also using a smear of Krytox grease in the brass cylinder. The gun is working soooo good right now. Im happy. Like this one? http://cgi.ebay.com/CRL-Krytox-High-Perfor...p3286.m20.l1116 or this one? http://cgi.ebay.com/Krytox-Performance-Lub...3%3A1|294%3A200 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
source1974 Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Also......... Again, somebody saying that the WE has weaker blowback?? I have had both M4's, the WE does not have weaker blowback than the WA. For the people (like above) who say this, do you have the "dumbed down" version with only 320fps output?? Or the original version with 450fps? Are you being deceived by the feather light plastic body of the Western Arms? Creating the illusion of greater blowback? (Firing mine felt like my old Hudson GBB Grease Gun.) Have you fired your WE in summer months? Im sure you have fired the WA in summer months, but this gun just came out in winter. It needs 70 degree ambient temp to be optimum. Can you really compare? Are you keeping an eye on part #122?? is yours worn? This would kill your blowback if its worn. Just wondering. My WE kicks so hard and sharp, its ridiculous. (and again, I have owned 2 Escort/Shoei guns). I will make a movie if you like. I have 2 WE, one is the original, and the second es the one with markings, I bought them at WGCshop, I bought the second one because I want the one that shot at 350fps, but after passing the crhono , it shot at 470fps too. So now I'm waiting that WE release some kit for downgrade the power. I played with both, the WA and the WE on winter time, ( around 10ºC here in Spain ) I played in the same day wiht both, just for compare wich one I like better. I have to say that I don't like one better than other, so I'm not a fan of the WA, I thinking on selling it, becouse I don't want to buy more "expensive" magazines, that's why I move to the WE. It's just my personal opinion, maybe my WA have a stronger blowblack than other WA, or my WEs have a weack blow back. But I really believe that the WA have a stronger BlowBack. Maybe it's because the bolt carrier it's heavy, ( not sure, maybe I'm wrong, haven't check the weight ). Maybe because the WA's body is not full metal, I feel the blowback stronger, someone with a WA with metal body can say if it is the reason. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jkpics Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 You will feel more blowback in a lighter gun, what takes more energy to move, 1 or 2 kg? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rottenotto Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 (edited) ^ definitely. Its got to be the plastic body or its washer #122 is going away. I dont think anybody should compare the performance of each until the warmer months. I know this WE will be a monster. Judging by how good its working in the cold. BTW,...100 pages. wow. Edited January 21, 2009 by rottenotto Quote Link to post Share on other sites
source1974 Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 ^ definitely. Its got to be the plastic body or its washer #122 is going away. I dont think anybody should compare the performance of each until the warmer months. I know this WE will be a monster. Judging by how good its working in the cold. BTW,...100 pages. wow. Yes, it must be the plastic body, and the WA that I have is the CQB , so less weight on the outer barrel + less weight in the body. It's going to be interesting to test the new G&P, that it's a WA but with metal body. As you say, we have to wait a few months, when the weather it's warm to see what this WE can do... I guess, this is just the begining, and as same as with the WA, lot of accesories and improved parts from third party will joing the party ()/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rottenotto Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Like this one? http://cgi.ebay.com/CRL-Krytox-High-Perfor...p3286.m20.l1116 or this one? http://cgi.ebay.com/Krytox-Performance-Lub...3%3A1|294%3A200 Not using either of those. Im using GPL oil. I had a post with pics a few pages back. Also an explanation of what I lubed. Im sure they would work fine though. Maybe better. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tbone67 Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 (edited) Like this one? http://cgi.ebay.com/CRL-Krytox-High-Perfor...p3286.m20.l1116 or this one? http://cgi.ebay.com/Krytox-Performance-Lub...3%3A1|294%3A200 It isn't the same reference: Rottenotto uses Krytox GPL105, and in yours links there are GPL205 and LVP-G1521 But I don't know if they can been also fine... However I think it's preferable to use oil and not grease because internals parts move fastly, I think grease will brake the moving parts... and catch all dirty particles! Edited January 21, 2009 by Tbone67 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rottenotto Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 BTW, Im also using drops of Krytox oil in my Propane tanks (with adapter) instead of silicone. Every few mag fills. I just started this. 105 is the same consistency as lightweight shock oil by Trinity. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sabrepilot9000 Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 (edited) Well, so far I've been a lurker on here since I dont have a WE yet but I just saw something on gasguns.info and had to post it on here. This was originally posted by a WE rep on the GG forums. Looks like the first shots of the CO2 mag. Very promising. http://gasguns.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=369 Really liking the fact that the base plate is what you use to screw the co2 bulb in. No hauling screwdrivers into the field. Good stuff. Edited January 22, 2009 by sabrepilot9000 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
snorkelman Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 not sure if a wedged baseplate would have been a better design (as you slide the baseplate off the empty caplet is released, and as you slide the baseplate on the wedge pushes the fresh caplet onto the piercing valve whilst locking in place) no need to fiddle about unscrewing anything then - plate off and the empty falls out, drop a full one in slide plate back on and you're done Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kilo_64 Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 the real question is how secure is the base plate and how well are 12grams gonna handle Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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