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Lupus78

WE Gas Blow Back M4A1 Carbine

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Well, so far I've been a lurker on here since I dont have a WE yet but I just saw something on gasguns.info and had to post it on here. This was originally posted by a WE rep on the GG forums. Looks like the first shots of the CO2 mag. Very promising.

 

http://gasguns.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=369

 

Really liking the fact that the base plate is what you use to screw the co2 bulb in. No hauling screwdrivers into the field. Good stuff.

 

Good to see, and to hear that apparently Spain is purchasing these for training?

 

Is CO2 any less susceptible to low temperature pressure loss? It seems like you'd get it with any type of ideal gas.

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Yeah can someone fill me in on the advatages of the CO2? I always hear it is better in colder weather, but in my expirence CO2 only works slightly better in the cold. Any other reason to choose CO2?

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not sure if a wedged baseplate would have been a better design (as you slide the baseplate off the empty caplet is released, and as you slide the baseplate on the wedge pushes the fresh caplet onto the piercing valve whilst locking in place)

 

no need to fiddle about unscrewing anything then - plate off and the empty falls out, drop a full one in slide plate back on and you're done

Yeah but I don't think a sliding baseplate is going to hold 800+ PSI from the CO2 caplet. Plus I don't think you could slide the base in to break the seal on the capsule.

 

Unfotuneately Buddy doesn't have any extra valve bits right now. :( The nail thing works but I'd like to fire BBs at more than 20 FPS...

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I dont really think the plate part would work though for two reasons. First would be because you would need something hard to tap the plate back in since the upward force is also gonna have to pierce the top of the bulb as well as hold it in. Second, I think the pressure would also be a factor since its at about 800 psi (i think thats right for co2).

 

As far as advantages of CO2, I believe it works better because it stays a liquid at a lower temperature than propane. So while it could be cold enough for propane to stay a liquid when discharged and freeze, CO2 is still able to properly vaporize without freezing at lower temperatures. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong though.

 

EDIT: Dang, I posted too late. Chris already said the same thing lol.

Edited by sabrepilot9000

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Argh...yeah I just now need those replacement parts for mine to work...damn it :P

 

No one else has swiss cheesed their floating valve?

picture003.jpg

:(

 

AB said he didn't have that part ATM. I asked him when he thought he would, but I think he misunderstood me.

 

I did ask a machine shop dude if he would be able to help me out, but apparently I'm not worth a response. I think I'm definitely going to look into getting a new one made, possibly with more little bars to make it stronger.

 

Edit: Also got my parts Tuesday, so I'm good with that now. Was the new charging handle supposed to be steel, or just a better aluminium?

 

Edit 2: Like I mentioned earlier I did manage to plug the barrel gas route of the nozzle so that I can dry fire (really I think I've fired 70 rounds with BBs since I've had the thing). I can still sort of fire BBs, but they only go 15-20 feet and probably at 80 FPS. You can't skirmish with it or anything, but at least your M4 can still be more fun than an AEG. ;)

Edited by Chris North

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^ That sucks Chris.

 

But you can probably "engineer" something to get it working. many ideas pop into my heasd when I look at the broken bits. (Im a military model builder).

 

BTW, the WA guns have a plastic loading nozzle. Inside is their floating valve, a "3 veined" center piece that floats, attached to a coil spring. These type are no better. They deform almost instantly. And I cant tell you how many valve springs I hand made from Ballpoint Pen springs.

 

I also have small box filled with bags of replacement ANGS/Firefly/PGC reinforced muzzle/loader nozzles that lasted no longer.

 

 

 

 

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Any idea how many shots one might be able to get out of a 12gram co2 cartridge? I know this might not be in any comparison but with the kwc mini uzi, some said they were able to get all the rounds out on full auto, while others said they couldn't, and of course going single only you were also able to get through a full magazine.

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Any idea how many shots one might be able to get out of a 12gram co2 cartridge? I know this might not be in any comparison but with the kwc mini uzi, some said they were able to get all the rounds out on full auto, while others said they couldn't, and of course going single only you were also able to get through a full magazine.

 

"initial testing shows average of 65-70 shots per CO2 cartridge," says the linked thread.

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I can only relate the CO2 issue to my own experiences.

 

I currently use a TM Hi-Capa 4.3 with CO2 magazines. I have to say... Fantastic. It doesn't suffer any real noticeable cool-down effects even on rapid shooting and easily lasts 4-5 mags worth of rounds. This is compared to noticeable cool-down and maybe only 2-3 mags worth on a charge of propane in a standard magazine.

 

One thing I have found that is peculiar to the CO2 mags (in the hi-capa) is that whilst they last a long time, they dont hold the CO2 over time, so if you leave the mag with a bulb in for a day or two, it will have run out. Where as a standard mag will happily hold propane for weeks at a time.

If this occurs with the WE M4 mags, then it could become quite expensive on bulbs if you fill a shed load of mags and then don't use them.

 

Personally, I am really looking forward to the CO2 mag option (and for WGC to get the M4 back in stock!).

 

In terms of the pics of the new mags, personally (and I know most won't agree), but I'd prefer to have the mags without a removable base plate, but with just the screw plate visible. The only reason I say this, is the Hi-Capa ones have a cover, and its a very small bind having to take that off every time. What with having to potentially do this more often on the M4 Mags, that extra faff might become a bit tiresome.

Also, is that baseplate going to be strong enough to allow you to twist the bulb retainer in and out?

 

Anyhows, thanks to RottenOtto's resounding praise for this gat, I'm going to bite the bullet and get one. Just need WGC to get them back in stock.

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Mark,

 

Thanks for getting in touch - you have come to the right place - we are the UK and Ireland Distributors for DuPont Krytox.

 

I am assuming you are asking about Krytox GPL105 for roof/door seal treatment on a coupe/cabriolet? - I am interested to know which vehicle you have.

 

For this purpose, we supply the product in 30ml applicator bottles (I attach a photo and Tech Data for information).

 

Cost is £18.00 per 30ml bottle, ex VAT, ex works.

 

Our minimum order value is £30.00, so we would ask you to take two bottles.

 

We can ship these in a Jiffy bag in First Class post - allow £3.50 for P+P.

 

If you call in with your Credit Card details and delivery address, we can ship the goods.

 

Best regards

 

Alan

 

 

Alan D Follett

Product Manager

GBR Technology Ltd

T: +44118 9820567

F: +44118 9820590

M: +44771 7531670

alan@gbrtech.co.uk

www.gbrtech.co.uk

 

My rifle is still stuck in Customs and my research continues.

 

This is my reply from the only UK based supplier for Krytox I could find. I think my reply explaining the intended application should provide interesting reading for Alan :)

 

The email also had a couple of PDF documents attached, if anyone would like these (a picture of the applicator bottle and a spec sheet) let me know.

Edited by Marky [UE]

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^ That sucks Chris.

 

But you can probably "engineer" something to get it working. many ideas pop into my heasd when I look at the broken bits. (Im a military model builder).

 

I was actually thinking about doing that. Probably going to try to use a nail with an o-ring as the valve and spring guide (something like the KSC Glock rocket valve), but I doubt it will work well, if at all.

 

Edit: It actually looks like it's working! :D Not sure exactly how well or for how long though. I'm going to work on it a bit more when I have some more time.

Edited by Chris North

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I'm liking what I see already with these mags. This WE is slowly but surely coming forth with some good stuff, now its just only time will tell if were gonna see upgrade aftermarket parts, front ends, accessories, different metal bodies, etc.

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A couple of reasons that explain the perceived difference in recoil between the WA and WE:

 

- The WE is heavier, weighing the same as the real thing. Of course the underweight WA kick is going to feel better.

- The WA has a loose recoil spring. The return stroke is sluggish to be honest. It doesn't slow down the bolt carrier on the way back much. Put a loose recoil spring in the WE if you want to feel the shock against your shoulder.

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I'm liking what I see already with these mags. This WE is slowly but surely coming forth with some good stuff, now its just only time will tell if were gonna see upgrade aftermarket parts, front ends, accessories, different metal bodies, etc.

 

Agreed, for a skirmish gun the FPS is consistent enough (largest deviation, ignoring the first shot, was only like 8 m/s) and the design is good enough. Now the issue is going to be whether we see an M16 or not... I hope we see one soon as thats the last thing I'm looking for in my Gas gun!

 

The CO2 mag looks idiot proof enough, I wont be using the baseplate of the mag to remove the bulb though!

 

Any word on the cost of the CO2 mags? Hopefuly cheaper or about the same price as the regular mags... that'd be wicked sweet.

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I was actually thinking about doing that. Probably going to try to use a nail with an o-ring as the valve and spring guide (something like the KSC Glock rocket valve), but I doubt it will work well, if at all.

 

Edit: It actually looks like it's working! :D Not sure exactly how well or for how long though. I'm going to work on it a bit more when I have some more time.

 

 

Good work mate ; )

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Thanks. :)

 

Here is a photo of what I used. It's probably not the most ideal but it seems to be making due. I think the rifle might be shooting a little less hot, but no chrono to confirm.

Basically all I did was:

 

-Find a suitable nail in the drawer, one with a head that looked about the diameter of the original valve and a stem that would fit into the long thin part of the nozzle.

-Make a few modifications to the nail (basically just cut the stem down a little).

-Epoxy a small bit of spring to the head of the nail, to prevent it from sliding backwards past the opening for the gas to enter from the magazine. I originally wanted to drill a hole in the nail and glue in a smaller nail, but the bigger nail is for masonry and is very hard. 5 minutes of attempting to drill through it barely made a dent.

-Clip the part of the standard valve spring that goes across the diameter of the spring for the nail's stem to fit.

 

I didn't add an o-ring to the nail for a better seal because I don't have one that I thought would work, but it seems to be fine without. I'm sure this basic idea can be improved a bit, but I'd still rather get a regular stock replacement when possible.

-

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^ Ha! Hey Chris you are on to something. I see custom valves in your future :P

 

Well.......I spoke to soon.

 

My WE charging handle snapped off - while firing. I wasnt sure WHAT imploded.

 

I opened the receiver and pulled half the handle out. Below is the stock WE and a new handle that I bought from the local gun shop for $20.00 (forged).

 

wehandlenew.jpg

 

Now the big thing is THEY ARE NOT 100% THE SAME. AND THERE >IS< A SLIGHT ISSUE.

 

wedifferenttip.jpg

 

As you see above, the WE has an extension added to the tip that rides in the top channel of the steel bolt carrier. Without it, the bolt will not take the charging handle all the way back into the gun on its return. You have to push it in the last 3/4 of an inch.

 

When pulling the RS handle, the hook at the end"sort of" catched the lip of the bolt carrier groove, but then slips right over it since it isnt deep enough.

 

It ends up catching the roller bearing assembly instead.

 

The feel is rough and wrong - also wearing out the pot metal upper receiver channel in the process. (since the handle is now jacked at a weird angle).

 

It just isnt right.

 

What needs to be done is to have a small flat piece of scrap steel JB welded to the RS tip - or WE simply has to offer a STEEL replacement part. (or CNC aluminum)

 

 

 

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