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Lupus78

WE Gas Blow Back M4A1 Carbine

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If you're afraid of doing some small work and maintenance to keep this gun in working order, I would recommend to stick to AEG's (like the new TM M4 SOPMOD). But if you really want a GBB as your primary rifle, WE and WA (including G&P and Inokatsu) are currently the only choices. No doubt there will be others. Currently WE is by far the cheapest and easiest option. And it's future seems really promising. The basic design seems fool-proof and there's surprisingly little to improve.

 

For me there's no going back to AEG's. This WE is the most fun thing I've encountered during my airsoft days. I'm more than willing to do the little love and care for this baby...

 

I think people here have been quite honest in their opinions. It's a joy to use and not too hard to maintain. Very reliable overall as long as those critical parts are checked once a while and gun is kept lubed and clean.

 

Do your math. And insert your own variables into the formula... ;-)

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If you're afraid of doing some small work and maintenance to keep this gun in working order, I would recommend to stick to AEG's (like the new TM M4 SOPMOD). But if you really want a GBB as your primary rifle, WE and WA (including G&P and Inokatsu) are currently the only choices. No doubt there will be others. Currently WE is by far the cheapest and easiest option. And it's future seems really promising. The basic design seems fool-proof and there's surprisingly little to improve.

 

For me there's no going back to AEG's. This WE is the most fun thing I've encountered during my airsoft days. I'm more than willing to do the little love and care for this baby...

 

I think people here have been quite honest in their opinions. It's a joy to use and not too hard to maintain. Very reliable overall as long as those critical parts are checked once a while and gun is kept lubed and clean.

 

Do your math. And insert your own variables into the formula... ;-)

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I currently have 2 Western Arms M4's so cost is NOT an issue. I am trying to not compare this with the western arms which is why i'm choosing my words carefully. It's the point of whether it's worth the money I'd be spending on the WEM4 to begin with. This is a thread for the WEM4 and I'm trying to get answers for myself as well as for others who are currently looking at getting a WE. I LOVE to tinker with guns but not when I have to fix things due to poor quality. If I want to replace a broken part, I don't want the SAME part. I'd rather have a part that works with the system to begin with. Buying a RS charging handle would be fine with me but then i think to myself... "Wait a second, why did my stock one break in the first place? Wasn't there some sort of stress test on parts before production?"

 

Also...some peoples guns are working perfectly and some break after the first time of use. Does this give me a greater chance for a lemon? As Pollux has already had to ask "But I guess these are normal, or are yours smoother?" so does that mean all parts aren't built equally? Do all magwells have a hole in them? I would LOVE for the REP to sign on and ease my mind on concerns that I have about their product. I'm sure plenty of other people will as well and it will probably boost sales significantly. Airsoft Buddy did an awesome job promoting the product from the very beginning and I will certainly be supporting them and buying from them direct if/when i decide to buy one.

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For me.. I don`t think the WA design is that far behind getting a big breakthrough. It only lack cheap magazines to be really GOOD.

 

Now when G&P even made one and just a super light bolt could make it go like this on standard WA mags..

 

 

 

oh.. and my WE came with NO hole in the magwell. So there must be some differ in either versions or quality control.

 

Also.. Mine is being tested at work by lot`s of people there in several days. Nothing broken yet.

 

we06op0.jpg

Edited by IBICO

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mwahahaha i wish i could test shoot my gun at work! I could get results so much quicker than having to go over to my parents house all the time.

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I just watched RAtech's G&P WA M4 video. It looks like the WA M4 doesn't have blowback/recoil comparable to the WE, once fitted with a metal body. Kinda shameful really. In the video it looks like the blowback/recoil is about the same as the TM M4 EBB.

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If only products at this cost worked just like this. Than everyone would be happy

 

Unfortunately; WE is releasing on the go and improving their designs from previous flaws while soldiering on.

 

The guys that made this gun thought about the materials extremely carefully before putting this thing into production. But as one might know, there are prohibitive costs and a deadline to be reached.

 

You also have to remember that WE has no backing in the airsoft industry and no aftermarket support (Not yet atleast) in regards to their M4's. All this time they're made poor to mediocre GBB's and now they have their own primary platform to build on. The WE m4a1 is still new to the game and parts will come in time.

 

As for the WA m4a1; you have to think of it this way.

Western Arms has been known for GBB quality in stock form out of the box for quite a while. They once owned the market in terms of quality and accuracy. So upon designing the m4a1 they should of KNOWN what would be an issue and what not.

 

You also have to take into consideration that alot of players are having problems with their WA m4a1's because of green gas or top gas. So that goes to show some

 

So in the end. If you want a piece that works brilliant with no problems out of the box then you'd have to look elsewhere.

WE's m4a1 was built with affordability in mind and at that cost there are bound to some minor problems.

It just goes to say you get what you pay for.

 

If you really really want a WE with no problems or any deficiencies maybe you should email WE and have them build and tune you one for the cost of your WA.

 

btw; GO WE! these bad boys are the tippmanns of the airsoft industry

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I currently have 2 Western Arms M4's so cost is NOT an issue. I am trying to not compare this with the western arms which is why i'm choosing my words carefully. It's the point of whether it's worth the money I'd be spending on the WEM4 to begin with. This is a thread for the WEM4 and I'm trying to get answers for myself as well as for others who are currently looking at getting a WE. I LOVE to tinker with guns but not when I have to fix things due to poor quality. If I want to replace a broken part, I don't want the SAME part. I'd rather have a part that works with the system to begin with. Buying a RS charging handle would be fine with me but then i think to myself... "Wait a second, why did my stock one break in the first place? Wasn't there some sort of stress test on parts before production?"

 

Also...some peoples guns are working perfectly and some break after the first time of use. Does this give me a greater chance for a lemon? As Pollux has already had to ask "But I guess these are normal, or are yours smoother?" so does that mean all parts aren't built equally? Do all magwells have a hole in them? I would LOVE for the REP to sign on and ease my mind on concerns that I have about their product. I'm sure plenty of other people will as well and it will probably boost sales significantly. Airsoft Buddy did an awesome job promoting the product from the very beginning and I will certainly be supporting them and buying from them direct if/when i decide to buy one.

 

 

I can honestly say that I agree with you on most points. Airsoft guns in general are just *suitcase*. Either you have a company that produces $150 plastic guns that are pretty much guaranteed to work if you use them as intended or you have a pot metal gun that might not work.

 

The WEM4 seems to be one of the few exceptions. Like most, it does have it's problems. Most of which are easily and cheaply fixed, but they are problems none the less. It's made of pretty decent materials and is pretty cost efficient, and although some parts break even when the rifle is used as intended and some things don't work out of the box, it still compared to the (rather small) competition.

 

Possibly a great question to ask is if you use either one of your WAM4s on green gas/propane? If the answer is yes then you almost certainly have has to deal with more problems than you'll likely ever have to deal with the WE. If no, then it's really up to you. Unless something catastrophic happens to your WE, you shouldn't have much problem getting 75-60% of it's value by selling it second hand should you not like it.

 

Until airsofters really flock to modern gas-in-the-mag GBB rifles and SMGs and companies think it worth it to produce a wide variety of guns I think the WE will hold its own for quite some time. Undoubtedly something eventually come along (like maybe the Koba C8 :P) that will destroy the current offerings, but until then the WE is IMO a worthy investment.

 

Edit: Gah, a bit late. Literary masterpieces take time to churn out... :P

Edited by Chris North

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For me.. I don`t think the WA design is that far behind getting a big breakthrough. It only lack cheap magazines to be really GOOD.

 

Now when G&P even made one and just a super light bolt could make it go like this on standard WA mags..

 

 

 

oh.. and my WE came with NO hole in the magwell. So there must be some differ in either versions or quality control.

 

Also.. Mine is being tested at work by lot`s of people there in several days. Nothing broken yet.

 

we06op0.jpg

 

One should treat quality out of the factory as a random variable governed by some probability law, not as "oh well, I got this, this is probably what everyone else's is like" or "oh mine's better they must've improved quality control." For simplicity's sake let's say we quantify "quality", and suppose that the mean quality of a WE M4 is, say, an 80. Suppose again that the quality distribution is normal (or "bell curved") about that mean. Good quality control reduces the variance in the quality distribution (i.e., it makes the bell curve taller and less spread out). To produce at the price they do, WE must be lax on quality control, meaning that the variance on that quality curve is probably great. So while you might've scored yourself a 95, there are statistically an equal number of people that got 65s.

 

Obviously, with better quality control, you get more and more of the stuff out your factory close to the quality you're aiming for, with very few lemons.

Edited by slu

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rottenotto:

 

Is this new #122 a commercially available item? If so, you're saying you won't reveal where you got it so you can sell it to us?

 

No, unfortunately not readily available.

 

If you want to plunk down $300.00 to have your own seal designed, and to have a sample made, be my guest. That is what it is costing me, plus the manufacturing cost, plus minimum, time, etc etc. Of course I am going to sell them, thats business.

 

-------

 

 

Anybody who thinks this gun is too "needy", you just haven't owned enough GBB rifles (and pistols).

 

ALL GBB rifles/smg's, past and present, are finicky, usually unskirmishable out of the box, money pits. But if recoil makes you smile,..well....

 

This SMG/gun is the closest thing to "reliable out of the box" yet.

 

No disrespect, but if this sounds like too much maintenance, you need to stick with electrics.

 

-----------------------

 

 

Pollux77 - I think you win the prize for most issues at once. Sorry to hear about it.

 

Those shattered bb's are a result of jamming/bad loading.

 

I have the sharp edges too, Im not sure thats it.

 

My guess is that you ran the power down to "cool-down" levels (maybe??) and the loader wasnt loading "clean". If the bolt doesnt blowback fully, the loading nozzle doesnt go back fully either.

 

Even if it doesntclear the bb stack, the brass loader moves far enough back to knock a bb free then smash it/chop it on the return.

 

Make sure the bolt carrier, and the valve op rod, is moving freely - lube it if you have to - it will loosen up with use too.

 

Also make sure the mags are fully gassed up. Then warm them by at least holding them tightly in your hands. A friend puts the mag under his armpit. Its amazing what this little step can do for you. (serious)

 

Also, ditch the biodegradeable - not even an option in this particluar gun, especially if you are using the 500 fps valve. I dont like using bb's made out of dry dog food, do you? (*grin*)

 

If you are still chopping bb's, I would then look at the valve first, then the rubber bb trap, or what William calls the "bucking" on his website. Sorry, I dont have the parts diagram in front of me. It could be installed funky. Who knows without seeing.

 

All can be worked out. We are all here to (at least) try and help ;)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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After 3 days playing with this gun I have to say that I'm pretty happy with it. The firt day was not perfect, some problems with the magazines, and after few shots the coldown effect was noticiable, anyway I thing it was my fault has I haven't fill the mags with enough gas.

 

Yesterday everything was perfect, all magazines work without any problem, shoting all the BBs. It was a warm day around 16ºC it was sooooo funnny!!! carring 10mags , doing the reloading, the sound of the gun, shoting all the 30bbs with only a little coldown effect when shoting the last bbs.

 

I'm not expecting that a GBB rifle like this are going to be same reliable than a AEG, but even a real gun it's same realiable than AEG.

This gun it's not perfect, but I'm really impressed on how reliable it is out of the box, I also have a WA M4, and I'm going to sell as soon as I can.

 

by the way , I shooted around 1000bbs since today some 0.25 , and 0.30, looks like te 0.30 are performing better than the 0.25, but I guess the problem it's de less quality of the 0.25bbs.

 

Maybe next day my WE M4 will break.. but meanwhile I'm pretty happy.

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Pollux77, you might want to check part #36 it tends to come loose sometimes. It's the big screw in the rear of the bolt carrier. Check to see if your nozzle/blowback unit is set in the center of the bolt carrier. Mine did that seldomly in the beginning. It would loosen after a while and I would tighten it up again. I wound up replacing part #37, o-ring, with something found at home depot. It works fine now.

 

I too have those sharp metal point in chamber as well, so I don't think that is your problem.

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No, unfortunately not readily available.

 

If you want to plunk down $300.00 to have your own seal designed, and to have a sample made, be my guest. That is what it is costing me, plus the manufacturing cost, plus minimum, time, etc etc. Of course I am going to sell them, thats business.

 

I did say, "if so," for a reason, but thanks for the lecture on business.

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Cephas

 

I ended up using blue Locktite on that bolt (#36).

 

If you do, make sure you clean the threaded tube and bolt with acetone or lacquer thinner first. Otherwise the Blue Locktite wont set up right. No doubt there is silicone all over these parts from normal operation.

Edited by rottenotto

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I did say, "if so," for a reason, but thanks for the lecture on business.

 

"...If so, you're saying you won't reveal where you got it so you can sell it to us?"

 

 

Sorry. Sounded like your were throwing me a dig for selling them. If it were a store bought part I would have just told you were I found it.

 

 

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Anyone else have problems with customs, its been in stupid customs for over a week :(.

 

 

Cobbcore,

Mine spent a week in customs too. "Held for Customs Inspection". I was nervous.

 

Then she cleared out and I had it a day later.

 

You will be fine.

 

Is your gun held at LAX airport?

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Nope, PDX I think. I was really happy to see it arrive in the US so fast, then customs got a hold of it. Well I am glad to here that you got yours without a problem from custom, I feel better now.

 

rottenotto keep us updated on the parts you might be selling. I will be happy to buy a few things :P

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^ Appreciate it Cobbcore.

 

The customs at LAX is horrible. Sometimes it takes them weeks to clear it.

 

That only happens when I use TNT which I never use anymore. TNT has been horrible for me.

 

Speedpost from Hong Kong comes through the east coast, clearing customs at Laguardia Airport in NY. The tracking usually shows "January 18, 2009 3:15pm, arrived in customs" "January 18, 2009 3:24pm, cleared customs" .....they NEVER hold my items.

 

But westcoast is always a different story for me.

 

 

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Well damn, mine is through speedpost, and also have never had a problem until now, "18-Jan-2009 United States of America Arrived.

18-Jan-2009 United States of America Pending customs inspection." Do you or anyone else know if there is a way to contact customs?

 

On a side note, I got a response from a buddy who makes tightbore barrels, and was wondering if it was worth upgrading the already 6.03 inner to a 6.01? Will the slight change even make a difference? I guess it really doesn't matter until I actually get to test fire my gun though.

 

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In semi, after a round is fired my trigger clicks on the way back to the ready to fire position. Apparently the clicking is from the hammer moving up 1/8-1/4 inch. Is this normal? I don't recall it happening before, but I'm not sure.

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^ Hey dude?

 

Why are you being an a-hole?

 

Im contributing - you're not.

 

Haha, classic rottenotto. Completely missing the point of the post and at the same time resorting to lies.

 

Since when was stating facts being an *beep*? Can you objectively point out anything I said in that post to be wrong? Nope. So you resort to completely disregarding it since it doesn't fit into what you believe should fit into your own little world.

 

The o-ring solution works and you just can't handle this fact. Instead you fill the forum with useless posts so that a very efficient and simple solution to a problem gets buried in your junk. Way to contribute.

 

Also, one of your supposed contributions has already been shown to be a known fact, in case you can't handle reading. It was a contribution that I had already made.

 

Maybe it would help to read and perhaps... think every once in a while? You seem to be confused quite often.

 

With that said, I await another one of your completely oblivious responses that indicate that you have nothing useful to respond with. Go ahead and instant-reply an irrelevent 10 second post, Mr. Contributor.

 

 

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On a side note, I got a response from a buddy who makes tightbore barrels, and was wondering if it was worth upgrading the already 6.03 inner to a 6.01? Will the slight change even make a difference? I guess it really doesn't matter until I actually get to test fire my gun though.

I think that the biggest factor affecting accuracy in this gun is it's hopup, which seems to work fine if everything is ok and you use heavy enough bb's (at least around 0.30g). But as we've heard, it can be tricky. I think that the 6.03mm barrel that came with it is pretty much perfect for a carbine. But if you decide to try out a custom 6.01mm barrel, please tell us your findings.

 

I have to agree rottenotto about this being one of the "most skirmishable" GBB piece out of the box that I've heard of (or encountered personally), at least in SMG/Rifle section. I don't see it as "breaking" in use easily except for the charging handle part. More like wearing out some o-rings, which are simple and cheap to replace once they do wear down. That's all. And usually even these o-rings seem to last pretty much of use if you maintain and lube your gun and the rod system holds it together (locktite might help).

 

Sure, you get what you pay for. Overall, I'm REALLY impressed about it's gas system (friggin ~500fps!), magazines (solid, not too heavy and seem to hold green gas and propane rather well, not to mention being cheap), overall build quality and accuracy with heavy bb's. And I can't wait to get some CO2 magazines. This is the future of airsoft, at least for me. Of course improvements are welcome in the future, but the situation ain't that bad to begin with.

 

PS. Sorry about the earlier double post. Shouldn't have tried to write it with iPhone. Friggin machine didn't seem to respond...

 

PPS. Rottenotto, here's one potential customer! ;)

Edited by Lupus78

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Lt. Fenix, can we calm down?

 

I understand where you are comming from, yes rottenotto has repeated himself on a few occassions, but he has had to since a lot of ppl are asking the same thing because they don't wanna look back one page. It is repeating info, but it doesn't take away the fact that the info is still valid and helpful. And the o-ring thing needs to be dropped. Rottenotto said that the #83 ring wouldn't work because he felt it wasn't working as good as the original peice. Should he have stated first that the piece could be used? yes, but he just felt it wasn't a propper switch, and that it would be better to find a better option. Others have said it works, but what makes you think rottenotto has any reason to lie about what he has said. He has actualy tested it and told his side. It might somewhat contridict what others have said, but it happens in the world of airsoft. Either way I hope we can just move on and continue the 100 plus page disscussion on the WE m4.

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