KSC/KWA MP7

[greg]

I got spare parts today!

Gun is up and running, and I have been shooting cardboard boxes all day.

 

Happy Happy!

Great news.

 

This would imply a faulty batch as opposed faulty design.

 

 

Greg.

[Duckling]

Yeah... can you share your source? My retailer can't get ahold of any as of yet...

DenT. takes approx 6-12 weeks.

 

Just to show off the KSC Trades:

 

... and a group shot of the H&K (KSC) family:

Just feel the love.

[somegirls]

A few pics with the 20rd mag and the micro T-1.

Perfect RD in y opinion and co-wittnesses perfectly with the pistol sights.

You can't use the rifle sights anymore though.

 

 

 

[Duckling]

A few pics with the 20rd mag and the micro T-1.

Just sitting with the same setup in mind, but would like to get the AP a bid higher, as I would like to see the fliped up sights.

 

Can you give me a estimate of how high the mount should be for the T-1, to see be able to see the sights through.

I'm thinking LaRue medium mount, but it may be the High one that fits best.

http://www.laruetactical.com/pics/LT66XMou...ofiles_copy.jpg

 

(Yes, also, we play with big fullface masks, so I also need som aditional cleraring til the stock. FullFace use is danish law.)

[somegirls]

Thanks to my genious graphic skills you'd need to raise the RD about 2cm or so to get that lower 1/3 co-witnessing.

The red one is your point of aim with the rifle sights.

 

Edited September 9, 2009 by somegirls

[Jamie Epsom]

Looks awesome. Had a TM MP7 and was more than happy so this should give me a boner! Literally lol

Heard great things from the guys down my local site so will be purchasing one ASAP

[Duckling]

Thanks to my genious graphic skills you'd need to raise the RD about 2cm or so to get that lower 1/3 co-witnessing.

I say thank you.

[Connery]

I'll take pics tomorrow with the medium mount so you can see exactly how it looks.

[greg]

Looks awesome. Had a TM MP7 and was more than happy so this should give me a boner! Literally lol

Heard great things from the guys down my local site so will be purchasing one ASAP

Yup, that's where I've been using mine.

 

Clancy liked the look of it so much he got one too. Unfortunately he was one of the unlucky ones & it went bang.

 

Mine's still fine. If you have read my previous comments, you'll be able to apply them to Epsom & get a real flavor of what this gun is like to use down there.

 

Grrrrrrrrrrreat.

 

Get one.

 

 

Greg.

[FISHy]

Mmmmh they do look pretty awesome!

[greg]

Mmmmh they do look pretty awesome!

They shoot pretty awesome too.

 

In fact they should take all gongs at the 'Awesome Awards' this year.

 

 

Greg.

[aaron2310]

Do we know if Ra-Tech has confirmed any reinforced or replacement cylinders? Mine hasn't broken yet but the issue is making me hesitant to use it again until I know I can readily get replacements.

[Duckling]

Link to KSC spare part #23 "Cylinder".

And as I write this, it is "In Stock"

http://www.dentrinityshop.com/pr_details.jsp?pid=14754

 

 

Another note. Warning, powergaming and reckless info ahead.

Im the kind of person who likes to take things apart, and see if I can improve on things.

I just made one small change to the Mp7A1 design, replaced one part with another KSC part I had in my bit-box, and now my Mp7A1 shoots 0.3g BBs at 101m/s.

This might not be so interesting to UK citizens, but to others this makes the Mp7A1 more then just af CQB backup.

I would like to point out that only one part is changed, and no parts is cut or modified.

The result is cronoed with standard Green/Top Gas at 21C with KSC standard valves and standard springs.

The mod. is totally reversible and can be preformed in 10 min, but do require tools and taking the bolt totally apart.

Sound level is upped a bit, ROF is the same...

I have not had the time to test it outside, but this might just have extended the effective range from 20-25m to 35-40m.

 

[aaron2310]

Brilliant! Thanks. I shall make a purchase come payday. Just in case.

[Connery]

Sorry, I forgot to take pictures yesterday. Forgive the quality too, had to use my phone.

 

 

 

It lines up good, but you still can't use the pistol sights.

[Dustie]

Another note. Warning, powergaming and reckless info ahead.

Im the kind of person who likes to take things apart, and see if I can improve on things.

I just made one small change to the Mp7A1 design, replaced one part with another KSC part I had in my bit-box, and now my Mp7A1 shoots 0.3g BBs at 101m/s.

This might not be so interesting to UK citizens, but to others this makes the Mp7A1 more then just af CQB backup.

I would like to point out that only one part is changed, and no parts is cut or modified.

The result is cronoed with standard Green/Top Gas at 21C with KSC standard valves and standard springs.

The mod. is totally reversible and can be preformed in 10 min, but do require tools and taking the bolt totally apart.

Sound level is upped a bit, ROF is the same...

I have not had the time to test it outside, but this might just have extended the effective range from 20-25m to 35-40m.

Just out of curiosity, have you tried this 'upgrade' with 134 Gas?

 

P.

[greg]

Link to KSC spare part #23 "Cylinder".

And as I write this, it is "In Stock"

http://www.dentrinityshop.com/pr_details.jsp?pid=14754

 

 

Another note. Warning, powergaming and reckless info ahead.

Im the kind of person who likes to take things apart, and see if I can improve on things.

I just made one small change to the Mp7A1 design, replaced one part with another KSC part I had in my bit-box, and now my Mp7A1 shoots 0.3g BBs at 101m/s.

This might not be so interesting to UK citizens, but to others this makes the Mp7A1 more then just af CQB backup.

I would like to point out that only one part is changed, and no parts is cut or modified.

The result is cronoed with standard Green/Top Gas at 21C with KSC standard valves and standard springs.

The mod. is totally reversible and can be preformed in 10 min, but do require tools and taking the bolt totally apart.

Sound level is upped a bit, ROF is the same...

I have not had the time to test it outside, but this might just have extended the effective range from 20-25m to 35-40m.

Excelent, about 400fps with a .2?

 

So are you going to keep this secret (you tease you),,,,,,,,,,,,,or share?

 

 

Greg.

Edited September 12, 2009 by greg

[Duckling]

Thx to Connery. It looks just the way I hoped. I'l get my "metal parts" guy on it straight away.

 

 

Excelent, about 400fps with a .2?

So are you going to keep this secret (you tease you),,,,,,,,,,,,,or share?

I'l share, but in the past just writing that my APS2 did fire 6.4J got a lot of angry remarks form UK citizens.

So read the following as a pure hypothetical, theoretical, fictional work:

 

If you look in the manual, the explode diagram shows the cylinder valve to be of a design similar to the one known from the KSC glock series.

A flat round disk with a rod protruding from one side, the rod have 3 small "wings" in the end.

The rod part is sitting in the nozzel...

 

After taking the gun apart i noticed that this part that normally is plastic, have been changed to a milled aluminium part, were the rod is about 3 times as thick.

This increase in thickens constricts the flow of gas in to the barrel.

By replacing the Mp7A1 part with the same part, made for the System 7 USP.45, the gun lets more gas into the barrel before the valve closes, and this results in more power. This also leads to more gas flow, thus higher gas consumption, but I don't think that it is a lot.

http://www.dentrinityshop.com/pr_details.jsp?pid=14743

The nice thing about it is that this do not put more strain on any part of the gun then before.

 

Remember that this gas system design don't closes the valve until the BB leaves the barrel.

Thus follows that a longer, tighter barrel would lead to a dramatic increase in power.

I already contacted PDI, that makes the 6.01mm Ø barrels, and they are considering making one.

 

As I live in cold country, and we don't have laws about powerlevels (We do have have strict power rules, we are not mad.), nobody in Denmark uses HFC134.

I don't have it, I cant buy it... and I don't see why I would ever need it.

So no, I can't make a test with HFC134, as I in my 9 years in this sport, never have used HFC134.

All guns KSC or TM have made the last decade accepts GreenGas out of the box at 20C, they may require a bid more maintenance and care, but anyone telling you that GreenGas would destroy your gun is either ignorant or trying to avoid a warranty claim.

KSC & TM GBB's dont brake down from the use of Green Gas, they die as most people don't care for there pistols as they should.

 

 

GBB care: (a religious matter for me)

Pistols are to be cleaned after all game days. Also if it spent the hole day in the holster.

Slide grease are to be removed and replaced with new, after all game days. Apply grease by a small brush, don't use more then you need. Apply only to contact areas, remove execs grease after moving the the slide a couple of times.

Do Not! spray your guns aimlessly with oil and think that it miraculously fixes all problems. All to often retailers tell buyers that GBB gun care is just spraying it with oil... This is asking for trouble. Oil washes the grease out, leaving the gun "dry".

The only 2 parts in a GBB pistol that need treatment with oil is the the seal in the cylinder, and the magazine top rubber seal. Apply a drop of oil on these areas every 1-2 months, after you cleaned the gun and let it absorb overnight.

The magazine valve inner seals also need a bit of oil. Empty your magazine, press down the big release valve and spray oil into the top opening of the magazine, move the valve to get the oil onto the O-rings. Refill the magazine and let it sit upside down overnight, next day empty the upside down magazine into some toiletpaper to get execs oil out of the mag.

The HopUp rubber in general, don't need oil. If you oil it, you gun shoots funny for 1-150 rounds. Do it ones or twice a year, take the HopUp housing apart and inspect the rubber, let it sit in oil overnight. Wash off all oil from the HopUp rubber, clean your barrel and reassemble the HopUp housing.

 

Do you drop your gun, or get it in contact with earth in any way, the gun need to be "atomized" and cleaned before further use.

 

Know your gun. Knowing the function, construction and operation of your GBB weapon makes care and maintenance easy.

Inspect your guns inner working parts regularly. Replace worn parts with the correct spare parts before they fail.

Keep your gun clean.

 

Most people thinks of AEG's af complicated and GBB's as simple. It is the other way around...

Edited September 13, 2009 by Duckling

[greg]

Thx to Connery. It looks just the way I hoped. I'l get my "metal parts" guy on it straight away.

 

 

 

I'l share, but in the past just writing that my APS2 did fire 6.4J got a lot of angry remarks form UK citizens.

So read the following as a pure hypothetical, theoretical, fictional work:

Eccellent, thankyou.

 

I guess the complaints came from the old Arnies rule about anything over 1 jule. A rule that has now been dropped.

 

 

Greg.

[Connery]

Don't mind me, just confirming Duckling's theory.

 

 

Shot at room temperature with KSC .2g BBs and UHC Power Green Gas.

 

EDIT: For what it's worth, that piece is called the Rocket Valve.

Edited September 14, 2009 by Connery

[-Clover-]

Did you have to machine your own rocket-valve? Or did you just use on of the ones that's already available for the glocks? (I haven't taken mine down to check if the two are compatible in size, yet).

 

I read somewhere that the KWA version being released in the US will already have a metal rocket-valve (I want to say it was Allizardl)

[Optomis]

Alrighty well I discussed the KWA/Umarex MP7 and the KSC model available with Alan/Allizard while at Operation Irene this past weekend.

 

I'll try my best to recall what he said, but I can't say it's 100% word for word so don't quote me on anything.

 

To start off you have to understand that all these GBB MP7's are produced in the same factory, but there are different models produced throughout the factory due to different specifications.

 

There are 3 versions available of the gas blowback MP7 as of today, September 11-2009. 1. The KWA/Umarex MP7 for sale in the United States. 2. The KSC version which features full, un-licensed trades being sold in most asian retailers and 3. The version ment for sale in Germany, it is semi-automatic only and shoots a bit harder then the others (Was told around 380 if memory serves me correct).

 

The main difference in models is that the KWA is 100% meant for green gas use and has been tested on that solely. The KSC version IS NOT IS NOT IS NOT meant for higher powered gas then 134A/Duster. The KWA features a beffed up cylinder that is meant for GG use. The KSC WILL NOT TAKE IT WITHOUT PROBLEMS. The reports of cylinders cracking should be from propane/GG use only. If not, then we will attribute that to being a lemon.

 

The KWA is designed to shoot 350-360, at room temperature on propane. The KSC is designed to shoot 280-300 on duster/134A at room temperature. The KWA has a restrictor to make it shoot at a this lower FPS for use in CQB situations. I was told that there are plans to intrudce a higher flow valve later down the line to make it shoot 400-420 for outdoor skirmishing. If previous Glock model rocket valves fit I am sure they are re-engineering them to be a bit more durable since that was a problem with the originals.

[galactica]

It will no doubt reassure the KSC owners to hear that the first KWA has gone bang (in a bad way) in the US.

 

*edit* false alarm, it is in fact a KSC.

Edited September 14, 2009 by galactica

[Connery]

Rocket Valve I replaced in mine is OEM KWA Glock. Haven't tried a HurricanE High-Flow valve yet, that's my next step.

 

Waiting to get replacement nozzles before I start stress testing, but I'm going to assume the stock KSC Rocket Valve is restricting the amount of gas going through the nozzle, which in turn is backing up the gas, and it's got to go somewhere.

Edited September 14, 2009 by Connery

[Duckling]

Waiting to get replacement nozzles before I start stress testing, but I'm going to assume the stock KSC Rocket Valve is restricting the amount of gas going through the nozzle, which in turn is backing up the gas, and it's got to go somewhere.

It just put pressure on the cylinder, but as soon as the valve closes the pressure in the cylinder get as high as it gonna get.

I don't think that we can blame the blown cylinders on the nozzel restriction. Remember that normaly the presure would just work on the piston (Or the piston stays and the cylinder moves).

 

Before I see comparison pix and measurements of the KSC and KWA cylinders, I'l say they are the same.

This would be the first time KSC versions differ. internally form KWA, all pix I've seen shown parts that looks exactly the same, except for some markings and writing...

 

The only clue supporting that there might be something to it, is Somgirls photos showing a chamber seal in hes Umarex, semi only version is red'ish. Where the KSC versions I have seen have green seals.

 

The German Umarex version had the same metal "rocket valve" installed to limit the output.