AirSoftNJ Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 It Fits Fine on My KSC, I ordered it with a Positive Threading, Ill Post Pic if You Like Quote Link to post Share on other sites
greg Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Has anyone else been having trouble getting holf of readyfighter? I've been trying for a week now, no luck. Greg. Still no luck but Den Trin have them so,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Greg. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
greg Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 (edited) I figured I'd give the Shooters Design, cnc machined aluminum rocket valve, $13 form den trin a go. I have the KSC Jap version which shoots 300(ish) fps stock. Swapping the stock rocket valve for the ra-tech npas upped this to a max 320(ish). Swapping this out for the Shooters Design, bought it to 360(ish) fps. Note all fps was chronoed today on a Skan, with .2's @ 18C. So, not quite the 35% increase marked on the pack, but 20%(ish) over stock ain't bad for $13. Now, before you tell me I could have got 400fps from the $7 ksc Glock rocket valve, I'm sure you are right. But, there are rumors that the plastic breaks & I'm hoping the ally won't. Greg. Edited December 27, 2009 by greg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
-l- Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 (edited) I asked readyfighter for a package deal, anyone interested? $33 for: 1x reinforced feed nozzel/cylinder 1x rocket valve (by shooter design) 1x rocket valve spring 1x Stronger bolt carrier guide rod spring (a must for steel bolt carrier) 3x feed nozzel return spring (given 3 but normally only 2 needed, just in case we mess up one of them) Edited December 27, 2009 by -l- Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aznriptide859 Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Are you SERIOUS??? I JUST made an order from DenTrinity... Is that price w/ shipping or without? I'd still be heavily interested in a pack either way Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RacingManiac Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 someone must do a review for that set and use with the steel bomber carrier.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
-l- Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 someone must do a review for that set and use with the steel bomber carrier.... Oh, what do you want to know? I have one. After installed the steel bolt carrier: - RoF is much slower...about 10/s, you need a stronger recoil spring to bring it up again. - Recoil kick back is stronger. - the center mass of your gun will shift towards the butt stock - it may not fit the TW/KWA version I sent the bolt carrier to someone to drill some holes on it in order to reduce some weight. So i cannot do any chrono test. I think using steel is a bit extreme... a 7075 aluminium alloy bolt carrier will be nice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
greg Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Oh, what do you want to know? I have one. After installed the steel bolt carrier: - RoF is much slower...about 10/s, you need a stronger recoil spring to bring it up again. - Recoil kick back is stronger. - the center mass of your gun will shift towards the butt stock - it may not fit the TW/KWA version I sent the bolt carrier to someone to drill some holes on it in order to reduce some weight. So i cannot do any chrono test. I think using steel is a bit extreme... a 7075 aluminium alloy bolt carrier will be nice. So, what's the orriginal made of? & what's the advantage of the 'steel' one? Greg. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RacingManiac Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 The original is likely some sort of pot-metal, which is zinc-copper alloy of somesort, easy to cast, soft to machine(therefore bad for wear when forces get high, as in with more powerful gas). It was also quite light, That seperate piece that you screw on with 4 screws though seems to be steel or something magnetic, since it sticks to magnet for some reason. The steel one is probably good for only boosting the "kick" which is really negligible in the original. And I worry that it may add stress to the plastic shell since where the rear takedown pins are, it does not have metal frame and all the blow-back force act against that. But I also worry the stock recoil spring is too weak to handle the heavier carrier, which explains for the slow ROF. So the Readyfight set intrigues me in that it has a up-rated recoil spring, which will help with the ROF I think. I do think a more durable carrier will probably be good for this, and a CNC aluminum one(even 6061T6 will probably be better) will be more than welcome. I am wondering though with the steel one and the stronger spring how will that perform... One thing will likely happen regardless, is that the gas consumption will probably go up... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
greg Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 (edited) The original is likely some sort of pot-metal, which is zinc-copper alloy of somesort, easy to cast, soft to machine(therefore bad for wear when forces get high, as in with more powerful gas). It was also quite light, That seperate piece that you screw on with 4 screws though seems to be steel or something magnetic, since it sticks to magnet for some reason. The steel one is probably good for only boosting the "kick" which is really negligible in the original. And I worry that it may add stress to the plastic shell since where the rear takedown pins are, it does not have metal frame and all the blow-back force act against that. But I also worry the stock recoil spring is too weak to handle the heavier carrier, which explains for the slow ROF. So the Readyfight set intrigues me in that it has a up-rated recoil spring, which will help with the ROF I think. I do think a more durable carrier will probably be good for this, and a CNC aluminum one(even 6061T6 will probably be better) will be more than welcome. I am wondering though with the steel one and the stronger spring how will that perform... One thing will likely happen regardless, is that the gas consumption will probably go up... As I understand it, gas consumption will only increase, if the mag valve is held open for longer & more gas is released. As the carrier has nothing to do with this, it should remain the same. You touch on an interesting point: The steel carrier will out last the gun! I think I'll stick with the lower recoil, frangible, original carrier, as this will be easier & cheaper to replace than the chassis. Thanks. Greg. Edited December 28, 2009 by greg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RacingManiac Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 The speed of the carrier dictates when the gas shut off is tripped, and the heavier carrier probably takes longer duration to "start" moving(the static vs dynamic friction bit, and the force of friction is related to normal force, ie weight of the carrier)...so heavier moving part should mean more gas consumption anyway... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
greg Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 (edited) The speed of the carrier dictates when the gas shut off is tripped, and the heavier carrier probably takes longer duration to "start" moving(the static vs dynamic friction bit, and the force of friction is related to normal force, ie weight of the carrier)...so heavier moving part should mean more gas consumption anyway... Ah, yes I think I see what you mean. As the carrier moves back more slowly, the hammer will hold the valve open for longer. A stronger recoil spring would add to this. Mm, so potentially more power but only if you have a very long barrel. I figure the bb will have exited the stock barrel, long before the extra gas can have any effect on it. So, just a waste of gas, another reason to steer clear. Thanks. Greg. Edited December 28, 2009 by greg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
greg Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 It Fits Fine on My KSC, I ordered it with a Positive Threading, Ill Post Pic if You Like Yes please. Greg. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Duckling Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 I figured I'd give the Shooters Design, cnc machined aluminum rocket valve, $13 form den trin a go. I have the KSC Jap version which shoots 300(ish) fps stock. Swapping the stock rocket valve for the ra-tech npas upped this to a max 320(ish). Swapping this out for the Shooters Design, bought it to 360(ish) fps. Note all fps was chronoed today on a Skan, with .2's @ 18C. So, not quite the 35% increase marked on the pack, but 20%(ish) over stock ain't bad for $13. Now, before you tell me I could have got 400fps from the $7 ksc Glock rocket valve, I'm sure you are right. But, there are rumors that the plastic breaks & I'm hoping the ally won't. Greg. Sorry, but I have to *badgeress* slap you for that one. If you go from 300fps to 360fps, both with 0.2g, you get 44% more power. Not just 20%. Yes physic is kind'a my thing, but still, this stuff aught to be taught in kindergarten... kids these days. If you try doing the tests with 0.3g pellets, you get even more power as the expanding gas pushes differently compared to compressed air from a spring system. I'm getting 1.63J from my KSC Japan version, using a old KSC Glock 17 rocket valve, RF cylinder and RF #24 springs, and 0.3g BBs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TacticalKitKat Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 I've just put in a enquiry form with Den for a 20rd mag, 2x 40rd mags, 2 sets of nozzle springs and a Readyfighter nozzle.. now to retrieve my MP7 from AA where it's been languishing for about 3 months now awaiting parts.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
-l- Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 (edited) But I also worry the stock recoil spring is too weak to handle the heavier carrier, which explains for the slow ROF. So the Readyfight set intrigues me in that it has a up-rated recoil spring, which will help with the ROF I think. When my mp7 use the original recoil spring with the steel bolt carrier, it fires as fast as a 25mm auto cannon Edited December 29, 2009 by -l- Quote Link to post Share on other sites
greg Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 (edited) 1, If you go from 300fps to 360fps, both with 0.2g, you get 44% more power. Not just 20%. Yes physic is kind'a my thing, but still, this stuff aught to be taught in kindergarten... kids these days. 2, If you try doing the tests with 0.3g pellets, you get even more power as the expanding gas pushes differently compared to compressed air from a spring system. I'm getting 1.63J from my KSC Japan version, using a old KSC Glock 17 rocket valve, RF cylinder and RF #24 springs, and 0.3g BBs. 1, Excellent news. Thank you for reminding me about that. I was obviously asleep at school that day, or I forgot. It was 30 years ago. TBH, I don't remember what I had for breakfast these days. I blame the drugs. Kids, just say NO! Actually, I just forgot that the power required to propel a bb, is not directly proportional to the velocity of the bb, as it exits the barrel. Silly me. 2, I am aware of that, but prefer to chrono at .2, as this is currently, common practice, at sites in the UK. Greg. Edited December 29, 2009 by greg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
greg Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 When my mp7 use the original recoil spring with the steel bolt carrier, it fires as fast as a 25mm auto cannon How fast/slow is that then? In rpm/s. Greg. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Duckling Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 2, I am aware of that, but prefer to chrono at .2, as this is currently, common practice, at sites in the UK. We all do, as it is practical if you are measuring AEG's and need the Value in Joules. But for gas weapons, and high end CO2 snipers, the results vary a lot. A tweaked M700 might chrono in around 4J with a 0.2 but dish out 6½J with the 0.43g it uses on the field. So we always strive to chrono non AEG's with the pellet the gun is shooting, especially with +2J guns. General Danish full auto limit is 1.67J, or 129m/s @ 0.2g. (That equals a maximum range of approx 45 meters with a 0.28g) But snipers around 6J is legal as long as you keep your distance to keep the energy in the impact below 2J. 6J makes for a maximum range of approx 80 meters, but a no-fire safty distance of 40-45meters, so carrying a canon like that into battle is not something to be taken lightly. A 80meter shot have a flight time of 1½-2 sec, making is hard work to hit a moving target. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tome Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 (edited) i just thought of a potential use for the steel carrier. If anyone is mad enough to install a really long custom barrel on the MP7 then it might help in reaching "ultimate power!!!". The extra gas released might help make the most of a really long barrel and heavy BB if the standard amount of gas released proves insufficient to make the most of such a crazy setup. Edit - oh wait. Looks like I am ill afterall and losing my mind. The same amount of gas goes to the bb irrespective of how long the carrier takes to move. Edited December 29, 2009 by tome Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Duckling Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 The same amount of gas goes to the bb irrespective of how long the carrier takes to move. The BB is out of the barrel before the bolt starts to move. Sorry for fracking your Idea. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tome Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 You're too slow on the trigger Duckling. I believe I successfully fracked myself before you had the chance to frack me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
greg Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 You're too slow on the trigger Duckling. I believe I successfully fracked myself before you had the chance to frack me. Welcome home, I trust you had a good trip. On the subject of barrels, does anyone know if any are out or comming out soon? Next week, I'll be taking a lala down to a local engineers, to have it 'converted' to fit the KSC. Probably going for about 220mm. I'm fed up with waiting but I'd hate to trash a barrel & pay for the pleasure, if someone is about to bring one to the market. You can guarantee that the day after I pay the bill, WGC will have 3 makes & 4 length choices all under $25! Greg. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RacingManiac Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 When my mp7 use the original recoil spring with the steel bolt carrier, it fires as fast as a 25mm auto cannon So you tried the steel carrier with the stock spring, or both the stock and the upgraded one? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
-l- Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 How fast/slow is that then? In rpm/s. Greg. about 7-9 rps with green gas I would say. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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