galactica Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 man, that is gloomy. Are you using Abbey predator 134? That sounds more like a duster gas reading! Oh, what to do...what's your feeling, some lemon cylinders or that you've been lucky so far? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tome Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 dang - that really is quite a difference between 134a and Green. more than i've seen in anything with a barrel that short at least. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GaMeFrEAK1018 Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 (edited) Well, I ain't about to enter an argument with the big bad wolf. I just checked again & the highest was 237 (3rd shot) & lowest was 212. This followed a 6 or 7 shot burst, near the end of the mag. As you probably remember I use a Skan chrono (the best) & I checked that I was on .2's just in case I picked up the wrong bottle. The same bb's gave around 330fps with green. As said it is 20.5 degrees C here in cloudy Ealing today. Perhaps it was a little warmer when red wolf did their tests? Greg. Wow, what disappointing performance on 134a. I was thinking of picking one of these up, but seeing as it may have cylinder issues on green coupled with it's sub-par performance on 134a, I'm going to have to sit this one out. Redwolf must be doing their tests on the surface of the sun to have that much of a discrepancy. Edited August 25, 2009 by GaMeFrEAK1018 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
galactica Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 In the spirit of experimentation and "well, it's not as bad as buying a £300 lemon", i've ordered a KWA one from the states. WE SHALL SEE! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
greg Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 1, man, that is gloomy. Are you using Abbey predator 134?Oh, 2, ...what's your feeling, some lemon cylinders or that you've been lucky so far? 1, Yes, it's p155 poor & yes, Abbey Pred 134a. WGC quote the same figs I got, so I don't know what Red Wolf are playing at. Another innocent typo I'm sure. 2, No idea on the cylinder thing. I believe that out of Airsoft Armory's first batch of 10, 2 have done the same thing. Mine is still going strong (touch wood) after a few thousand shots but as for the others, who knows.If they have all been used as much as mine (or more), great. Alternatively they have yet to be fired & may go bang on the first mag! I am pooping myself that mine holds together. The only good thing, is that if you pay top dollar & get one from a local shop on the UK mainland, you can expect a warranty. It may take a while for the part to come, but it will. As the problem seems to show up real early I would also assume you could probably take it back & get your money back. Fat chance of this, if you go the 'ha-ha I paid half what you did' rout. One thing is not in doubt, the gun is blinkin awsome. You could wait for the KWA/KJ/KFC/what ever version. At least that way, if it goes bang, you can consolidate with the cheaper initial cost. Bottom line, I'd check out the specific terms of the warranty (explaining your specific concerns) & take the full price plunge. Yes, it would appear that this gun has a potential risk but it's one I'd be happy to take again. Part #23 will undoubtedly be available/upgraded, so the problem is short term. Possibly, you wont even have the problem. There are a good few owners out there who haven't had the problem. Greg. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Duckling Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 The only good thing, is that if you pay top dollar & get one from a local shop on the UK mainland, you can expect a warranty. As can you from most asian mail order shops... The problem is not if there is a warranty or not, but if it is possible to get the spare parts. With no spare parts, you have the same problem no matter where you spent your money. KSC/KWA Mp7A1 cylinder: "Please KSC, make spare parts... fast." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Panoptes Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 Has anyone contacted them? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jesTer Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 I wonder if making sure the part is well lubricated will have any bearing on it lasting longer... I'm thinking of silicone grease. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trasher Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 Well, RA-Tech asked for a wishlist (in their MP7 review video) of upgrade parts... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
greg Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 Well, RA-Tech asked for a wishlist (in their MP7 review video) of upgrade parts... Thank you for pointing that out. Greg. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
greg Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 As can you from most asian mail order shops... The problem is not if there is a warranty or not, but if it is possible to get the spare parts. With no spare parts, you have the same problem no matter where you spent your money. Well, yes & no. I was referring specifically to residence of the UK & not suggesting that non UKers should place their purchase with UK suppliers. U.K. law rests the responsibility on the supplier not the manufacturer. There is also precedent for customer expectation, ie. I payed a respectable price, so I'm legally entitled to a product that will last, if not, money back please. &, of course this is all a lot easier face to face rather than e-mail, with the language barrier. & legal differences passing responsibility on to the manufacturer. Not impossible, but one heck of a lot harder than using a local shop. Greg. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
greg Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 I wonder if making sure the part is well lubricated will have any bearing on it lasting longer... I'm thinking of silicone grease. I doubt it, the one I saw looked more like a pressure burst, not some sort of friction or wearing. Greg. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MCXL Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 So you claim its a pressure burst but that using a lower pressure gas wouldn't help the problem... OK greg. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
greg Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 (edited) So you claim its a pressure burst but that using a lower pressure gas wouldn't help the problem... OK greg. I don't 'claim' anything. In this case, I'm offering opinion. I'll summarise what I've already written in this post for ya. While I agree, that lower pressure will in general, result in less possibility of damage, I don't think it is the cause of this particular problem. All my previous gbb's (inc a number of KSC's) have not suffered any problems, using green. I believe that KSC design there guns to withstand 'green'. I know that you only have to blow a balloon up to a certain point once, to burst it. It will survive many cycles below that in tact, as per the KSC. To my way of thinking, if the use of green was the problem, they would all (inc mine) go bang the first time green is used. In the case of the one I saw, I don't think it had been run on green. Though common (20% in those I know of, as yet), I think this is a random fault. Meaning that only a proportion of the batch will suffer. Ie, those without the fault will be fine on green & those with the fault will inevitably fail, whatever gas is used. I stand by my opinion & will continue to use green in mine. However, I respect the fact that those with an alternative point of view, may wish to opt for lower pressure gas. I understand your obvious (but unsaid) stance: On the face of it, blaming the use of green, would seam the simple answer. In this case, I'm not sure it is that easy. Greg. Edited August 26, 2009 by greg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Samm Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 As said it is 20.5 degrees C here in cloudy Ealing today. Perhaps it was a little warmer when red wolf did their tests? An average summer's day in HK is about 25-30 Celcius, I imagine the 80% humidity has an effect too. Redwolf office's testing ground seems to be on the roof of a highriser so the altitude may be an attributing factor! Greg how does the MP7 compare to any other new KSC pistol releases (if there are any to hand) and do you have any pictures of this thin blowback chamber? Is it thinner than other KSC guns? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RacingManiac Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 It looks fairly similar to their system 7 USP, atleast in material and construction....I am thinking full auto puts more strain on the part.... As said, I hope someone makes a POM cylinder like those made for TM Hi-Capa by SD.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
greg Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 1, An average summer's day in HK is about 25-30 Celcius, I imagine the 80% humidity has an effect too. 2, Redwolf office's testing ground seems to be on the roof of a highriser so the altitude may be an attributing factor! 3, Greg how does the MP7 compare to any other new KSC pistol releases (if there are any to hand) and do you have any pictures of this thin blowback chamber? Is it thinner than other KSC guns? 1, Are WGC in the same area? 'Cos they are stating 220-250fps with .2, 134a. 2, Mmmmm, maybe they should take this into consideration before publishing figures that are, shall we say, a little, elevated? 3, Good call, I have a few, Glocks, USP's, I'll check 'em later & let you know. Greg. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
somegirls Posted August 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 The chambers all look pretty much the same. There are pics of the MP7 chamber and boltcarrier a few pages back. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Connery Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 Those are the estimated numbers from the factory, not the actual numbers that the gun fires. Mine is only topping out at 330fps on green gas as well. Slightly disappointing, considering the USP Match does indeed fire at 375fps, and the barrel length is the same, if not longer than the USP Match! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Duckling Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 (edited) I wonder if making sure the part is well lubricated will have any bearing on it lasting longer... I'm thinking of silicone grease. The gun came lubed only with a thin oil. The first thing I did were to lube groves on the bolt with a teflon grease, before firing any shots. My cylinder is clearly blown apart: Not worn down... Edited August 27, 2009 by Duckling Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Duckling Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 It looks fairly similar to their system 7 USP, atleast in material and construction....I am thinking full auto puts more strain on the part.... A common misunderstanding. The Mp7 fires from a closed bolt. The next shot is not fired before the entire system is back to its initial position. Two things change from one shot to the next: The pressure is lower and all parts in the cylinder is colder. If the problem is the cold... all system 7 guns would have this problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Duckling Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 Those are the estimated numbers from the factory, not the actual numbers that the gun fires. Mine is only topping out at 330fps on green gas as well. Slightly disappointing, considering the USP Match does indeed fire at 375fps, and the barrel length is the same, if not longer than the USP Match! After taking the cylinder apart, I found that the cylinder valve is different from the design shown in the manual. The manual shows part #27 having the same rod with 3 "wings" in the nozzle, in the parth of the gas flow. Same as KSC/KWA Glock and all new System 7 have. The Cylinder part found in my KSC Mp7A1 is a machined rod of metal with a disk in the end. The diameter of the rod is taking up approx 66% of the inner diameter of the nozzle, blocking the flow of gas into the barrel. The only reason I can see for this, is to get the power output down. Changing the metal part to one similar to the common design may give +350fps... But as my cylinder is bust, I can't try this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RacingManiac Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 A common misunderstanding. The Mp7 fires from a closed bolt. The next shot is not fired before the entire system is back to its initial position. Two things change from one shot to the next: The pressure is lower and all parts in the cylinder is colder. If the problem is the cold... all system 7 guns would have this problem. So does all the pistol(firing from close bolt), the problem is that the pistol don't shoot 1200rpm. If you try shooting 100 consecutive shots the temp can get quite cold....all the while the thing is being slammed back and forth...I don't see why it can't be the cause of this... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
greg Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 The gun came lubed only with a thin oil. The first thing I did were to lube groves on the bolt with a teflon grease, before firing any shots. My cylinder is clearly blown apart: Not worn down... This is the same problem I have seen. Can you give details, ie, gas, temperature, how many shots before fracture & supplyer? Greg. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Duckling Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 So does all the pistol(firing from close bolt), the problem is that the pistol don't shoot 1200rpm. If you try shooting 100 consecutive shots the temp can get quite cold....all the while the thing is being slammed back and forth...I don't see why it can't be the cause of this... People always say fx. the KSC/KWA G18C brakes down as the Full Auto firing is putting a lot of stress on the system. I say no. The only part that really feel the temperature strain is the cylinder, and they don't brake on the G-series. The main problem with GBB SMG's is that the user don't keep them clean. Dirt and grit, combined with the gun firing 5-15 times more bullets in the same game, is the killer. You keep your guns clean, change the grease on the slide after all game days, and regularly atomize your gun and clean it completely... your hand gun or SMG may last you years, or even decade with a few spare parts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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