baggard Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 That model had colt trademarks on it... its by laylax and its coming soon! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrTreble Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 its by laylax and its coming soon! Any idea on the costs? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GaMeFrEAK1018 Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Anyone install any tightbores or good vsr buckings in this rifle yet? I'm hoping for an accuracy report soon because this gun is so tempting for a GBBR DMR base. Thanks My sentiments exactly! It's either a KJW M4 modified to a DM rifle or wait until WE releases their GBBR M14. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
baggard Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Any idea on the costs? no idea, i didnt ask them. sorry Quote Link to post Share on other sites
t_hum Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Well as long as it makes any compression, then it's naturally going to work. Unless the entire piston shatters the cylinder... Hmmm do you ever intend to make a metal cylinder? So this would be the Reason why the rubber band is needed. If the rubber band is too long it would allow the piston to go outside of the cylinder; correct? Thus causing needless wear... how should we fix such an issue? the Metal Piston will sooner or later KILL the cup. We need to get our nomenclature right. I dont want to analyze a different part than you are referring to. These are my understandings/terms for each part. Piston - cylindrical shape bolted on to the bolt carrier which travels inside the loading nozzle. Piston Cup - small elastomer ring which attaches to front of piston creating a seal between piston and loading nozzle. Loading nozzle - Black plastic object in front of carrier which feeds bbs and distributes gas. Nozzle valve - directs gas from bb propulsion to blowback cycle by closing off the front of the loading nozzle. So in your post are you saying that the metal piston will destroy the loading nozzle? I dont think so. The only way that would occur is if the loading nozzle became overextended. Once that occurs it really doesnt matter what the piston is made out of. Even the stock piston is metal. To clarify further, the o-ring piston replaces both the standard piston and piston cup. The velocity reducer replaces the nozzle valve (which should be completed and tested no later than saturday, btw) I apologize for taking so long. Raven1 and I have had a heck of a time coordinating our busy schedules. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
enjoi74 Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 (edited) No issues, shoots 2+ mags every time. I just thought I mention the piston cup stripping (it's very little) because you peeps need to know. I lube this gun a good amount, so it's not the oil. Unlike Raven1, I'm taking a different direction. I lube my gun, shoot mostly on duster now since my GG ran out, and see when will the gun fail on me. You have to lube the cup specifically with lots of oil and let it sit for a day or two before shooting it. If too much oil is on there then clean some off of it before shooting. When I checked mine it was very dry and I could see a fracture mark, so put lots of oil on it to make it softer and increase the tolerance point. Because of the lube the cup seems very strong on mine. Also, when they send my recall parts, they included two piston cups. Both of them where very dry. I think that is the main cause of the cup issues people are having. Edited October 8, 2009 by enjoi74 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrTreble Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Thanks enjoi74, I'll do just that. I'm going to use a heavier weight oil, 80 instead of the lighter 20. How many shots have you gone through? I'm not sure if it has anything to do with the duster gas I'm using. It's 152a gas, I don't think retailers sell 134a gas as much as they use to because of environmental issues. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
t_hum Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 I wonder how an o-ring conditioner fluid would work? I would guess the fluids they sell to condition o-rings in power steering pumps would work quite well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
enjoi74 Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Thanks enjoi74, I'll do just that. I'm going to use a heavier weight oil, 80 instead of the lighter 20. How many shots have you gone through? I'm not sure if it has anything to do with the duster gas I'm using. It's 152a gas, I don't think retailers sell 134a gas as much as they use to because of environmental issues. Any time. I used the teflon oil that I used on my AEG, it was heavier than my spray silicon oil. I probably had put through ~5000 shots already with propane. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
teetee Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 (edited) Very new to GBBRs and loving every minute with the KJ. Could anyone quickly outline what parts need lubing, how often & what type of lube to use? All this gas stuff is making me dizzy... Edited October 8, 2009 by teetee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrTreble Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 So you got the M4 too? =P share you thoughts. For maintenance use 100% silicon oil. Whenever I take down my gun, I always wipe it down with a dry bounty papertowel. If you shoot your gun enough, the black paint on parts will wear and you should clean it off. I also use duster gas to blow away any dust or particles that are on the gun. After wiping down the parts, I put a drop or two of lube on moving parts such as the bolt carrier, and loading nozzle. A drop or two will go a long way, don't overdo it or you'll have oil going everywhere when you shoot. If there is too much, you can wipe some of the oil off. The magazine, I put a drop of oil in the charging valve when I charge the mag with gas. Then I put a few drops on the top of the mag (the rubber opening). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stickyittoyou Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 (edited) We need to get our nomenclature right. I dont want to analyze a different part than you are referring to. These are my understandings/terms for each part. Piston - cylindrical shape bolted on to the bolt carrier which travels inside the loading nozzle. Piston Cup - small elastomer ring which attaches to front of piston creating a seal between piston and loading nozzle. Loading nozzle - Black plastic object in front of carrier which feeds bbs and distributes gas. Nozzle valve - directs gas from bb propulsion to blowback cycle by closing off the front of the loading nozzle. So in your post are you saying that the metal piston will destroy the loading nozzle? I dont think so. The only way that would occur is if the loading nozzle became overextended. Once that occurs it really doesnt matter what the piston is made out of. Even the stock piston is metal. To clarify further, the o-ring piston replaces both the standard piston and piston cup. The velocity reducer replaces the nozzle valve (which should be completed and tested no later than saturday, btw) I apologize for taking so long. Raven1 and I have had a heck of a time coordinating our busy schedules. Judging by the picture where the Piston had nicked the cup correct? I'm not trying to question your authority, I'm just trying to make sure that the piston's head being pure aluminum with a O-ring around it; will not need to be dampened. In comparison to the stock cup seal on the front of the piston which in turn dampens the impact and keeps the alignment of the piston and cup; could ultimately cause a big crack in the cup if it where metal on the front of the piston. That nick was caused by the piston becoming unaligned with the cup and hitting it quite hard. Just trying to make you think about the other aspect of this issue, if you change things to pure metal and provide less dampening on the front of the piston it could cause premature wear. I'm just trying to look after you by looking ahead to what may happen, not trying to undermine you. okay? This is why I was wondering about if we should make a metal cup w/nozzle... of course that only causes more things needing to be upgraded... Edited October 8, 2009 by stickyittoyou Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stickyittoyou Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 (edited) I apologize if I upset you T_hum. Edited October 9, 2009 by stickyittoyou Quote Link to post Share on other sites
t_hum Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 The internet is a funny thing. Its hard to get tone of voice out of posts sometimes. I am in no way offended. I just wanted to be sure we were on the same page so we understood what we were talking about. When Raven1's piston cup got that chunk taken out of it it also happened at the same time his nozzle valve went. Its my theory that those bits and pieces got jammed between the loading nozzle and piston body, causing the damage in that picture. The rearmost part of the loading nozzle is actually an oval (this allows the gas used for blowback to vent. This opening narrows and become circular towards the front of the loading nozzle. Im not terribly concerned about any sort of collision or damage to the loading nozzle. Testing will tell, though. Ive been wrong before. The tolerances are very close on the o-ring piston. The only situation I can easily see where damage would occur would be if the band broke. As far as making a metal loading nozzle, its a really tough part to make. Especially considering the internal contour of the loading nozzle is pointed out earlier. Not possible with my machines and if it were it would be prohibitively expensive. Im leaning towards making something like that won't be necessary. Id choose another material or modify the design of the o-ring piston long before I chose to do something so complex. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrTreble Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Hey stickyittoyou, that sig regarding the WA is a bit extreme yeh? =P Let's be humble about the KJ m4 being the most reliable GBBR. I don't really mind replacing the piston head and nozzle parts after every couple thousand shots, since my gun will only be used every once in a while. And given my busy schedule in the upcoming months, it's okay. But if t_hum/raven1's get the part in production, we'll just have to see how it work out. It's still cheaper than buying complete bolt carriers for WA, it's clones, and WE. So I'm happy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stickyittoyou Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Hey stickyittoyou, that sig regarding the WA is a bit extreme yeh? =P Let's be humble about the KJ m4 being the most reliable GBBR. I don't really mind replacing the piston head and nozzle parts after every couple thousand shots, since my gun will only be used every once in a while. And given my busy schedule in the upcoming months, it's okay. But if t_hum/raven1's get the part in production, we'll just have to see how it work out. It's still cheaper than buying complete bolt carriers for WA, it's clones, and WE. So I'm happy. I know it's extreme, but I don't mind if fan boys yell at me . Besides I got to rattle the cage of their ability to price things out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stickyittoyou Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 The internet is a funny thing. Its hard to get tone of voice out of posts sometimes. I am in no way offended. I just wanted to be sure we were on the same page so we understood what we were talking about. When Raven1's piston cup got that chunk taken out of it it also happened at the same time his nozzle valve went. Its my theory that those bits and pieces got jammed between the loading nozzle and piston body, causing the damage in that picture. The rearmost part of the loading nozzle is actually an oval (this allows the gas used for blowback to vent. This opening narrows and become circular towards the front of the loading nozzle. Im not terribly concerned about any sort of collision or damage to the loading nozzle. Testing will tell, though. Ive been wrong before. The tolerances are very close on the o-ring piston. The only situation I can easily see where damage would occur would be if the band broke. As far as making a metal loading nozzle, its a really tough part to make. Especially considering the internal contour of the loading nozzle is pointed out earlier. Not possible with my machines and if it were it would be prohibitively expensive. Im leaning towards making something like that won't be necessary. Id choose another material or modify the design of the o-ring piston long before I chose to do something so complex. K, that is a good theory. I'd rather go with that then mine, after all why would Tanio Koba send out a product that can the piston slip almost outside of the cup?; like my theory suggests. PURE IDIOCY! on my part. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
t_hum Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Not at all. It made me think twice to make sure it wasn't the case! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrTreble Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 I don't want to be cynical... if people get the WA (including the woc, inokatsu, agm, jg), and they complain about it, then it should be blamed on them b/c they didn't do adequate research. It's really stupid for anyone to not buy the KJ if they have the funds because it has shown it's durability for months. Now, I actually hope KJ does not release stanag mags =) Then only those who can overlook the thermold (or those who love thermold) mags can experience this awesomeness. If stanag mags were never created and thermold were standard, then who would complain? conformists... tsk tsk So yea, don't need to bash WA... (a mod might suspend you for it) =P Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stickyittoyou Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Not at all. It made me think twice to make sure it wasn't the case! Awesome, okay. I take it when you have the piston and cup together with the elastic; it does not come close to being outside of the cup correct, even with a little force? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stickyittoyou Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 I don't want to be cynical... if people get the WA (including the woc, inokatsu, agm, jg), and they complain about it, then it should be blamed on them b/c they didn't do adequate research. It's really stupid for anyone to not buy the KJ if they have the funds because it has shown it's durability for months. Now, I actually hope KJ does not release stanag mags =) Then only those who can overlook the thermold (or those who love thermold) mags can experience this awesomeness. If stanag mags were never created and thermold were standard, then who would complain? conformists... tsk tsk So yea, don't need to bash WA... (a mod might suspend you for it) =P Lol... yeah knowing my luck! Conformists.... Pssshhh! We're a totally different group of people with "WAFFLE" Mags Quote Link to post Share on other sites
elrey Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Still no word on any STANAG mags for this, is there? I understand the size/capacity issue, but it'd be nice to have some conventional magazines. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
phantomwarrior Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Can't a "lock" be screwed into the charging handle as a last second save if the rubber band broke. So saying the limit of movement before the piston was out was 1 inch or whatever, then block the bolt from going farther than that? I'll explain more if no one understands that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
t_hum Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Can't a "lock" be screwed into the charging handle as a last second save if the rubber band broke. So saying the limit of movement before the piston was out was 1 inch or whatever, then block the bolt from going farther than that? I'll explain more if no one understands that. Im not following. Any sort of stop in the charging handle would prevent the nozzle from moving freely rearwards. IMHO, the best way to limit travel of the loading nozzle in relation to the carrier is via a direct link between the two. This is what the rubber band does. Have you guys seen many bands break? Im under the impression the bands dont typically see stress unless something keeps the loading nozzle stuck forward. But under normal shooting I dont think it ever sees any force. Sound right? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
enjoi74 Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Im not following. Any sort of stop in the charging handle would prevent the nozzle from moving freely rearwards. IMHO, the best way to limit travel of the loading nozzle in relation to the carrier is via a direct link between the two. This is what the rubber band does. Have you guys seen many bands break? Im under the impression the bands dont typically see stress unless something keeps the loading nozzle stuck forward. But under normal shooting I dont think it ever sees any force. Sound right? I took my gun apart yesterday to clean and re-grease, my band still looks good and I didn't see any wear on it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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