Jump to content

First Aid Gear & Discussion


Murph

Recommended Posts

People often overlook the importance of First Aid, and I have often seen the old chestnut about long term skirmishers seeing very little injuries at games. Whilst it is true that airsoft is a very safe sport, people are fragile things and injuries (and more importantly) illnesses can occur at any time.

 

People drop dead in the strangest of places - I know I have borne witness to this on many, many occasions.

 

You can't plan for these things to happen, but you can plan for dealing with them.

 

First Aid in the UK is something that is seen as somebody elses problem, but there are many, many providers out there offering courses. The most basic course is the Apponted Persons / Emergency First Aid which is a day long and gives basic skills such as major wounds and bleeding and the important CPR. The best course is the First Aid at Work course, which has now been reduced from 4 days to 3 - they are expensive but worth it.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 59
  • Created
  • Last Reply
To help reduce the amount of chatter in the First Aid Kit Picture thread (Here) I got approval from an Admin to create this thread. It is here to discuss everything from STOMP II Packs, to MOLLE Blowout Kits, to Izzy Bandages, CATs, and all the other fun life saving equipment.

 

NOTE: The information and discussions contained within will by no means make you a qualified medic. If you're interested in learning First Aid please contact your local Red Cross for information on their General First Aid and CPR courses.

 

If you are carrying a CAT in your kit then you are skirmishing in the wrong places!!!

 

I suggest finding a safer site to skirmish at ;)

Link to post
Share on other sites
If you are carrying a CAT in your kit then you are skirmishing in the wrong places!!!

 

I suggest finding a safer site to skirmish at ;)

 

Yeah... However, during the Fall there are plenty of hunters out in woods here in the States. I'd rather have a blow out kit and never need it, than have an accident happen and try to hold someone's guts in with a band-aid.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I was playing with a group of guys a couple of years ago and a player was messing around whittling a stick or something... Next thing I hear is a couple of guys wigging out and I walk over to find the kid had almost completely severed the tip of his left index finger

 

He had cut himself down to the bone and was bleeding pretty good.. We were playing in the woods and had about a 3/4 mile walk to get him back to where we parked the vehicles... That was the worst injury I had seen while airsofting and was handled with a bit of compressed gauze until we got him down the road to some real medical care to get stitched up

 

That said I still wear my IFAK every time I hit the woods (whether hunting, shooting, fishing, airsofting, fourwheeling etc) and it lives on my pack that goes to work with me everyday along with a more substantial kit in the trunk

 

I don't worry too much about the boo-boo stuff... Small cuts get tape or superglue, my kit is geared more towards fixing leaks or getting people breathing normally again

Link to post
Share on other sites
The best course is the First Aid at Work course, which has now been reduced from 4 days to 3 - they are expensive but worth it.

I wouldn't say the FAW is the best course, it is a handy course though which of course you may get work to pay for.

 

I think the FAW should have been kept at 4days and just have extra content added

AED

epipen

include chil & baby CPR

 

but hey, maybe that's just me

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've seen one burn related injury, and then only after the fact. It was the first time a site allowed pull ring smoke grenades on, and despite explicit warnings that there were to be no smokes inside of the enclosed building like things one smartass decided to do it anyway. Cut forward to a smoke being thrown into a small enclosed room, and someone inside trying to throw it out bare handed.

There are not many games/fields that I've been to that allow any sort of pyro, so chances of any burns are pretty slim. I can't speak for the whole country though.
Link to post
Share on other sites

might be fine using apsrin yourself but I wont give it out to others

 

UK guidlines for first aiders are only give asprin for suspected heart attacks. Then it's 300mg for them to chew. I don't have asprin anyway (can't mix it with my meds)

 

I do have some pain killers for my own use

paracetamol

diclofenac

codeine

tramadol

 

mix and match as appropriate (i.e as instructed by prescribing doctor)

Link to post
Share on other sites
I wouldn't say the FAW is the best course, it is a handy course though which of course you may get work to pay for.

 

I think the FAW should have been kept at 4days and just have extra content added

AED

epipen

include chil & baby CPR

 

but hey, maybe that's just me

 

The 3 day course has (obviously) more content than the 1 day course, and the HSE have removed the requirements to teach management of fractures from the 1 day course. These are the only courses approved by the HSE, so the only ones recognised under The Health and Safety (First-Aid) Regulations 1981, and thus the only ones legally recognised in the work place.

 

AED, epipen and Child & Baby are all extra courses that are available from most respectable first aid training companies, but I agree that AED should be 'standard' given the availability of public access defibrillators... although the problem with that is AED qualifications need updating on a regular basis...

 

Child & Baby stuff isn't really needed for is basically a 'work' qualification, and the course has been reduced to 3 days because most employers stated they didn't want to lose staff for 4 whole days...

 

I don't agree with the epipen being something that should be "standard" training. Whilst adrenaline is a life saving drug during an anaphylactic reaction, you need to be able to recognise this happening before administration. People who have had a confirmed anaphylictic reaction can be prescribed epipens and (hopefully) they will recognise when they need it. Most people with epipens generally inform their friends and family on how to assist with the administration.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I honestly think AED training/certification is a bit ridiculous. I'm sure as hell thankful that I'm certified in it but I don't see it as necessary, especially with the kinds of AEDs on the market today. Those things are made to be idiot proof and they still have certification classes for them? I mean c'mon, they're made so that literally anyone could just open the cover, turn it on, and start using it. They even tell you when and where to put the cords in! The certification to me seems a bit overkill and unnecessary.

 

By all means, I'm not saying certification is useless, just a bit ludicrous.

Link to post
Share on other sites

AEDs are hugely idiot proof, and there are models on the market that have just an "on" button, and that's it. However, as simple as they are to operate, there are still problems with them, the main one being equipment link, which can still kill (or at least cause problems). I have seen experienced medical staff fall foul of equipment link and end up in hospital themselves because of it.

 

GTN patches have a habit of exploding as well during defibrillation, and of course you need to ensure that you avoid pacemaker sites, as they don't respond very well to 360j being banged through them either.

 

I quite agree with you there Agent Hunk - Burn Gel is wonderful stuff, and water soluble as well, which allows easy removal in hospital.

Link to post
Share on other sites
AED, epipen and Child & Baby are all extra courses that are available from most respectable first aid training companies, but I agree that AED should be 'standard' given the availability of public access defibrillators... although the problem with that is AED qualifications need updating on a regular basis...

 

Child & Baby stuff isn't really needed for is basically a 'work' qualification, and the course has been reduced to 3 days because most employers stated they didn't want to lose staff for 4 whole days...

 

I don't agree with the epipen being something that should be "standard" training. Whilst adrenaline is a life saving drug during an anaphylactic reaction, you need to be able to recognise this happening before administration. People who have had a confirmed anaphylictic reaction can be prescribed epipens and (hopefully) they will recognise when they need it. Most people with epipens generally inform their friends and family on how to assist with the administration.

My feeling on on the epipen issue is that the FAW covers regonition of anaphlactic shock and in big work places it's quite possible there will be staff who have the epipens.

Given that you get shown A the regonition signs and B the epipen so you can find it for them why not learn how to jab it in someone. It's not hard. The stand alone course I went on was 3hours

 

With the child and baby I've seen courses run by a couple of companies where the trainer said it's not covered in the course I'm teaching but if you want to go through it in the lunch break/at the end they would go through it. It doesn't take long does it. Stand alone course is 1 day

 

It's a good point about difib needing the requal every year. On the other hand the recomendation was to do a short refresh session every year anyway to give people soem cpr practice. If it had been compusary you could fit the defib refresh in that.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Regarding the epipen, they are prescribed to people who suffer anaphylaxis for self-administration when the need arises. Yes, a first aider may be trained in recognising anaphylaxis and what an epipen is / does, but anything more is heading into the realms of the Prescription Only Medicines (Human Use) Act, and first aiders don't hold an exemption to this act so therefor can't administer the epipen.

 

First Aiders can however assist a patient from administering their own epipen if they are incapable of doing it, but a first aider can't make the decision to give the epipen if the patient was unconscious for instance.

 

The thing with the Emergency First Aid at Work (EFAW) and the First Aid at Work (FAW) courses is they are regulated by the HSE; they set and regulate the courses and also stipulate the content, which means you can't really go adding to the courses - this is why instructors will often add stuff like that in on breaks for people interested.

 

Because EFAW and FAW are essentially "work" qualifications it would be difficult to add other content into them, and only stuff that is deemed relevant would be considered for inclusion into the course - in fact, the HSE have actually been taking stuff out of the couses. Also, the EFAW and the FAW are the only courses that are legally recognised for the purposes of insurance, etc.

 

Training organisations can offer other courses, but these are generally "top-ups" to the FAW (such as AED and Medical Gasses), and given that these cost money and require an employee to be adsent from work for longer it very rarely happens unless there is an absolute need (such as Security staff in large shopping centres being AED trained).

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

They have a day long course for Epi-Pens? Gosh. I have one for my allergies, and though I never have had to use it, the instructions from the docter took about two minutes and could ber simplified as "pull off cap, jab in upper leg, call ambulence, be warry of relapse, rinse and repeat as needed". I like that there is actually a course, it's one of the few areas where I can see someone not trained screwing up (oh look, that guy looks like he is weezing a bit, I should use my epi pen on him... Wait, why has is his heart beating like that... He had a heart attack? Oops), but that seems a rather long.

I was dissapointed in that my first aid trainer couldn't really elaborate on the docters instructions, besides the obvious warning that it's rather dangerous, and shouldn't be used on someone unless the chance of them being rescued by EMTs is dismal (which is just about never with airsoft).

My feeling on on the epipen issue is that the FAW covers regonition of anaphlactic shock and in big work places it's quite possible there will be staff who have the epipens.

Given that you get shown A the regonition signs and B the epipen so you can find it for them why not learn how to jab it in someone. It's not hard. The stand alone course I went on was 3hours

 

With the child and baby I've seen courses run by a couple of companies where the trainer said it's not covered in the course I'm teaching but if you want to go through it in the lunch break/at the end they would go through it. It doesn't take long does it. Stand alone course is 1 day

 

It's a good point about difib needing the requal every year. On the other hand the recomendation was to do a short refresh session every year anyway to give people soem cpr practice. If it had been compusary you could fit the defib refresh in that.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think the course is that long in the US. I had to take a recert course a few months ago and they covered the whole of the epipen stuff in about half an hour.

 

Anaphylaxis is scary stuff. I would know, I went through it. Luckily I got a shot of adrenaline before I made my way to the hospital and that basically saved me.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, quite scay. I'm lucky, I've got asthma about as bad as it can get, and some nasty allergies, but I've never gone into Anaphylaxis. Got a shot of Epinephrine once, but in the hospital, for the flu (didn't know it helped with that). Don't usually cary my Epipen with me except in my first aid kit when doing long outdoors things, and when the camp program I am a councilor in does it's multi day white mountain hike. Certainly not something I would be allowed to adminster beyond myself, but off in the mountans, an hour minimum from any help, and multiple hours from a hospital there can be times when the risk of heart attack and litigation are outweighed by someone dying from a blocked airway right then. A choice I hope I am never in a position to make.

I don't think the course is that long in the US. I had to take a recert course a few months ago and they covered the whole of the epipen stuff in about half an hour.

 

Anaphylaxis is scary stuff. I would know, I went through it. Luckily I got a shot of adrenaline before I made my way to the hospital and that basically saved me.

Link to post
Share on other sites
First Aiders can however assist a patient from administering their own epipen if they are incapable of doing it, but a first aider can't make the decision to give the epipen

If the person is unable to use it themselves I'm allowed to do it for them. It was specialist training and it may be that for that it had to be a doctor rather then a normal first aid trainer. Mostly the doctor in question trains parents and school staff to give them to young children.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
If the person is unable to use it themselves I'm allowed to do it for them.

 

 

I don't know about the laws over there in the UK but in Hawai'i (sorry I don't like to affiliate Hawai'i with the US, long story) you can gain consent to administer the epipen to the person if they are A.) unable to themselves, or B.) unconscious and in dire need of it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would just like to make it clear to members that under no circumstances should you administer first aid without prior training and qualifications, as in your attempts to help a person you may in fact simply injure them much more severely, or kill them.

 

This of course, would leave you looking like a moron and the injured party severely ###### off, possibly leading to lawsuits and court. Most airsoft sites in the UK have first aid staff available, leave the first aid to them - even if you are qualified.

Link to post
Share on other sites

im under no illusion as to how well i am trained. the stuff i learnd is just through the CCF and we have refrsher lessons every time we go away, about 3 times a year.

 

its fairly basic stuff; CPR being a major one, application of field dressings and bandages and stopping bleeding, and how to treat broken bones, ie slings and splints.

 

again though, in any situation that i thought "holy *suitcase*, this guy is actually quite hurt" first thing i would do is call a marshal (who would then call an ambulance), and then apply a temporary dressing, or support a broken bone. i was told that the first thing te paramedics would do when the arrive is whip off any dressings or splints and reapply their own, so if i could avoid applying anything, it would be better because it would most likely be quite painful for the person.

 

edit: bloody keyboard is going to hell, keeps missng half my letters out

Link to post
Share on other sites
its fairly basic stuff; CPR being a major one, application of field dressings and bandages and stopping bleeding, and how to treat broken bones, ie slings and splints.

fairly basic is a whole lot better then none. I've done a fair bit of extra stuff, most of that though is training to use extra bits of kit. Being trained to use medical gasses and splints isn't going to help if you don't have them there.

 

i was told that the first thing te paramedics would do when the arrive is whip off any dressings or splints and reapply their own

quite possibly, I doubt they always do that. Most of the ambulances I've called have been to deal with something other then a visable injury. They didn't take off the dressing covering a fairly small cut on someones head when the real concern was that the patient couldn't remember how they got the cut.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Adiventure - adrenaline (epinepherine in the US) can be given for life threatening asthma attacks (secondary to salbutamol) and it has good results... not sure about flu though, but then again you may have had some severe airway compromise due to the virus.

 

England Wonder - I think the key is you received specialist training from a medical professional, which is different to receiving training from an approved first aid instructor (who will probably never seen adrenaline given in anger).

 

Misfit - quite agree about letting qualified first aiders do what they are trained to do, but in the absense of trained first aiders I would rather see somebody attempt to stem major haemorrhage than stand back and watch somebody bleed to death, or not attempt CPR because they didn't feel confident in doing so. First Aid is all about common sense, and the courses are there to allow formal teaching as well as supervised practice to help build a person's confident if they ever do need to perform their skills. You can even get free advice online, and the BBC even have a section on First Aid: http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/first_aid/

 

And it is true that the attending paramedics will generally want to visualise the wound themselves - makes decision making a little easier and the hand over to A&E a hell of a lot easier!

 

fairly basic is a whole lot better then none. I've done a fair bit of extra stuff, most of that though is training to use extra bits of kit. Being trained to use medical gasses and splints isn't going to help if you don't have them there.

 

SJA by any chance? (saw the pens and penlights in your kit on the photo's thread, and the mention of medical gasses makes me 99% sure you are ;) )

Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't think the course is that long in the US. I had to take a recert course a few months ago and they covered the whole of the epipen stuff in about half an hour.

 

Anaphylaxis is scary stuff. I would know, I went through it. Luckily I got a shot of adrenaline before I made my way to the hospital and that basically saved me.

 

Same here it seriously is. I'm allergic to dairy, nuts, bee stings (that's what got me). I became unconscious with my epipen in my hand, thank God my friend administered it to me.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and the use of session cookies.