£5k Super-Coupes

[Fizzy]

Particularly with regard to the Skyline, I definitely need to read more about what can easily be done to make the car more impressive.

 

With Skylines, I "appreciate" the way they look because of what they are but I'm not really sold on their looks.

AFAIK, the stock car makes about 250-odd BHP (?) so if it's gonna cost me more than a couple of grand in bolt-on bits to get it to go faster that kinda ruins it for me

 

I know people say Skylines rule, but although the 2.6 litre engines of the GTR are awesome, the 2.0's & 2.5's aren't that great. R32's are sort of brisk stock (very light), but the 2.5 R33's are pants. They also cost a fair bit to get 300bhp out of.

 

It's not that expensive to get 300bhp out of the R33 GTST, mine puts out 300bhp and it's still running standard boost. All that's been done is the car's breathing (exhaust, filter, decat, downpipe, front mount) Now, while this isn't exactly cheap to pay for in 1 go, you'd be hard pressed to find one that hasn't had the exhaust filter and decat done at the very least and for one like that you'd only be paying about £3500 for a nice clean one. With a budget of £6k you could find yourself a very nicely tuned one and still have some change left over.

However, if you're looking to spend about £6k you could also get a R32 GTR or R34 GTT for that money, and I've even seen R33 GTRs going for around the £6k mark. If you want some more Skyline info, pop over to http://www.skyline-owners-club.com/ and say Hi There's also a fair few for sale on there which might give you some idea. Should you decide on a Skyline, let me know, one of the top Skyline tuners happen to be friends of mine and they can always source something.

 

Edit: As for fuel economy, I see 30mpg on long motorway runs

[TwinTurboCH]

It's not that expensive to get 300bhp out of the R33 GTST, mine puts out 300bhp and it's still running standard boost. All that's been done is the car's breathing (exhaust, filter, decat, downpipe, front mount) Now, while this isn't exactly cheap to pay for in 1 go, you'd be hard pressed to find one that hasn't had the exhaust filter and decat done at the very least and for one like that you'd only be paying about £3500 for a nice clean one. With a budget of £6k you could find yourself a very nicely tuned one and still have some change left over.

However, if you're looking to spend about £6k you could also get a R32 GTR or R34 GTT for that money, and I've even seen R33 GTRs going for around the £6k mark. If you want some more Skyline info, pop over to http://www.skyline-owners-club.com/ and say Hi There's also a fair few for sale on there which might give you some idea. Should you decide on a Skyline, let me know, one of the top Skyline tuners happen to be friends of mine and they can always source something.

 

Edit: As for fuel economy, I see 30mpg on long motorway runs

You might well have squeezed that out of an RB25, but the fact is, you can't get anymore without serious money, whereas the same tuning on an RB26 will deliver close to 400bhp. Most people with your tuning don't see more than 260bhp at the wheels, so I'd be interested to see your dyno printout so that I know what the 30+ people I know with RB25's are doing wrong I've never met a turbo Skyline owner who can manage 30mpg, maybe because they enjoy driving their cars and can't stomach not using boost for hours on end, but that's not to say it's not possible LOL

 

P.S. a 300bhp R33 is still slow in my opinion, they are too heavy for the power they have. Of all the jap cars I've driven (from integra v-tec's to GTR's) they are the slowest in stock form, and handle like my volvo estate. They don't even feel like they should be in the same bloodline as my two R32's and my Dad's R35, the only thing that is sort of right is the sound the engine makes, and even then, it's not as much of a scream as either the RB20 or RB26, mainly because the hydraulic lifters prevent them from being revved past 7k, whereas the RB20 can rev to 8krpm easily, a stock RB26 will rev to 9,250rpm stock, and my tuned RB26 revs has the rev limiter at 10krpm

[Fizzy]

Well, it's 269.9bhp at the hubs, and I was told you can account for a 30-35bhp transmission loss, so...

I'll scan the Dyno plot later, but I don't see how that's going to show where your 30+ people have gone wrong. The cynic in me would just say it's because you don't believe me. Hey ho!

[TwinTurboCH]

Well, it's 269.9bhp at the hubs, and I was told you can account for a 30-35bhp transmission loss, so...

I'll scan the Dyno plot later, but I don't see how that's going to show where your 30+ people have gone wrong. The cynic in me would just say it's because you don't believe me. Hey ho!

I was right not to believe you though LOL It's only 270bhp. No-one actually counts flywheel figures these days. My car is 600bhp at the flywheel, but I only ever tell people it's 500bhp because that's all that actually makes it to the wheels LOL A 'stage 1' R33 will get eaten alive by a 'stage1' R32, mainly because they'll make the same power but the R32 will weigh 150kgs less.

[Fizzy]

Most people do count flywheel figures though, it's only really people into tuning cars that don't.

[TwinTurboCH]

Most people do count flywheel figures though, it's only really people into tuning cars that don't.

Which is what the OP is, therefore it is a reasonable assumption that when discussing his options we talk a bout real world power figures rather than flywheel figures which mean nothing. To make my point, a 200sx with 300bhp at the flywheel will be MUCH faster than an similar weight 4wd car with the same 300bhp at the flywheel. That's because the 4wd power train will sap much more power than a 2wd setup. Power at the wheels is the only 'real' measurement as it is the only one that is comparable. The only people who quote flywheel figures are big manufacturers, and even then it's not all of them, and that is just because they want to give a bigger power figure. Nissan quote the new GTR as being 485bhp, I saw one dyno'd the other day which ran 505bhp at the wheels and it was 100% stock. Same with my Dad's old 996 turbo, it ran 416bhp at the wheels but was quoted by Porsche as having 414bhp.

[Fizzy]

But the OP also made reference to the quoted 250bhp stock flywheel power the R33GTST makes(I even quoted it in my original post), and he wanted to know about getting it beyond that and if it was going to cost £££ to do it

[Stealthbomber]

To be pedantic, it's actually wrong to talk about "rear wheel BHP".

 

BHP stands for (as I'm sure we're all aware) "Brake horsepower".

The word "Brake" is there because older dyno's (and some new ones) used a thing called a "water-brake" to load up whatever it was testing.

So, BHP is the power your engine makes when it's bolted to the "Brake".

 

Technically, we should talk about BHP with regard to engines (note that not all engines are in cars so that's why it's still a standard measurement) and talk about RWHP when comparing our e-penises.

[snowman]

I love how people read "must be a 2+2 for £5K" and then chip in with RX7s (2 seaters, although possible to find a ratty one in budget), Honda NSX (ha ha ha) and S2000 (2 seater convertible, way over budget). Not to mention the array of Yank-Tanks and high end performance German super-saloons...wtf?

 

I drive a Japanese coupe (Punky doesn't like it, apparently) but I wouldn't buy any of the ones on the list to be honest. The Supra might be fun(ish), but it's all grunt and no finesse, it certainly won't be anything like an MR2 and few of the others will either. Lots of people seem to like the Nissan 200SX, but I drove one when they were new and it seemed big, heavy and dull to me (I didn't buy one). The Skyline? Well, I guess you either get them or you don't - Out of the box they don't seem very quick (there are a baffling array of variants though, so maybe there are stock quick ones prior to the current model), but you seem to be able to tweaky them into the stratosphere (if your pockets are deep enough and with a £5k budget, I suspect they're not).

 

I don't know much about the GTO - It's decently quick, but all the in period reviews said it was sterile and no fun to drive (a criticism also aimed at the Skyline by some) - To my eyes it looks horribly dated, but beauty's in the eye of the beer holder as they saying goes.

 

So, that leaves the Nissan 300ZX - Wow... I'm kind of surprised to find that's the one I'd choose, but it is Assuming of course I couldn't have a FIAT Coupe which is the obvious choice you've missed!

 

Cheers.

[Stealthbomber]

So, that leaves the Nissan 300ZX - Wow... I'm kind of surprised to find that's the one I'd choose, but it is Assuming of course I couldn't have a FIAT Coupe which is the obvious choice you've missed!

I think I said something similar about the 300ZX.

 

I'm sure it's the sensible choice but it just doesn't seem... I dunno.

TBH, I suspect that I feel like it's more of a "proper" car rather than a "fun" car.

I wonder if I'd find myself wondering why I had another car as well while, at the same time, wishing it had a diesel engine that could achieve 60mpg?

 

I'm still having a nosey at Skyline websites to see if I might change my mind but I just don't like the way they look and I don't think any amount of tuning is going to change that.

 

Incidentally, I went to have a look at a 400hp Supra last weekend. Seemed like a bargain at £4k ono. Very nice looking in the pictures.

I looked inside it and half the dashboard (literally - glove box, dash top, under-dash panels etc) was missing, there were holes chopped out of the dash where I assume turbo timers and boost controllers used to live. It had bucket seats screwed to the floor with racing subframes (so there was no access to the rear seats) and there were wires hanging out all over the place.

 

The owner seemed quite proud of this. Easy to modify apparently. Shows it's a proper road-racer apparently.

 

 

As for the FIAT, I'd never buy an Italian car that cost less than £50,000 (and have another £50,000 in the bank to cover servicing costs).

Grew up with Alfa's and FIATs and, frankly, they don't deserve another chance.

S'funny there too. I was talking to a young guy about cars and said how they were all plagued by leccy faults and he grimaced.

Turns out he's just bought a 3 year old Alfa 159 (?) and every time he opened the boot with the lights on the lights would switch off and you'd have to turn the ignition off and on again to get the lights working again.

Classic Italian electrics.

[snowman]

Re the FIAT.

 

Maybe but you still see an awful lot of FIAT Coupe's around and most look in pretty good fettle.

 

We had a TIPO (on which the Coupe was rather belatedly based, hence its relatively short life - same with the For d Puma which was based on a Fiesta well into the platform's life and so died with the new Fiesta - to be 'replaced' by the awful Sports Ka! ), with an electronic dash and remarkably it never gave us any problems (we only sold it after it needed some welding and the we decided we wanted a car with aircon).

 

I can sympathise, but I'd take a 5 cylinder turbo FIAT over those fat Jap boxes any day - Classic styling which actually seems to get BETTER with time (none of your list manages that, imo), practical, fast and fantastic turn-in for a FWD car

 

Cheers.

[Stealthbomber]

I can sympathise, but I'd take a 5 cylinder turbo FIAT over those fat Jap boxes any day - Classic styling which actually seems to get BETTER with time (none of your list manages that, imo), practical, fast and fantastic turn-in for a FWD car

 

Cheers.

I dunno.

 

The FIAT Coupe always looked like it had a "fat bum" to me.

A bit similar to the Mitsubishi FTO, in fact. Looks okay from some angles but kinda pudgy from others.

 

I must say, I'm not completely happy with any of the cars I'm considering but I just think it'd be fun to own a big daft jap sportscar.

Now I think of it, that's probably one of the reasons I'm not hooked on the 300ZX.

It's too sensible looking.

At least the Celicas, GTOs and Skylines look the part, even if they've aged a bit.

 

Ah well, I'm in no hurry. Maybe I'll see something I hadn't considered before.

[Marlowe]

Spend 3k more on a import 350z. Job's a good un.

 

*Flees before the ricer fans gather torches and pitchforks.*

[Stealthbomber]

At least the Celicas, GTOs and Skylines look the part, even if they've aged a bit.

 

[pits]

FTOs are front wheel drive and therefore fail, especially when you put in a heavy v6 right over the front wheels.

 

Stealth, bhp isnt everything Stock 250bhp S15s are faster than a stock 276bhp 3000GT, and my 2-door R32 is faster than an F430 in a straight line even when the boost controller is turned off, so circa 400bhp (it's 550 turned on )

 

The S15s have a 6-speed btw

 

For the money you have I could source you a 300bhp S15, a 320bhp+ Soarer or a 350bhp Supra but it would be unlikely to be a manual. If you like the R32s I could find one with 400+ bhp for what you want to spend.

 

Get in touch if you have any more in depth questions

Have you driven an FTO? Or are you basing your point on it being a fwd V6 car? I think you will they are on of the best handling fwd cars ever made, I hate fwd but the FTO is excellent in fwd form

 

Out of the lot of them

Skyline- Pretty awesome major tuning capabilities looks good

Supra- Same as above, but I dont find them the prettiest of things about

Silvia,S15 etc- Not really a fan of them to be honest, great for drifting, not where I would be spending 6k

3000GT/GTO- Avoid, probably the most unreliable car ever made, had one of them, never again, they are all the same, the only car I know of, to go onto a ramp and blow every single electrical item to make the car work, they also have a problem with the ECU's the older ones, well most old Mitsi's end up with leaking capacitors(£500 to you and I)

 

If it was me R33 Skyline all the way, the RB engines are superb, get the GTST-T, not an auto, if you can afford it a GTR

 

Although, the other car for 6k I would be thinking of is an 8 series BMW which is the ultimate 2+2 coupe, this is where my 6k would be going

 

Others I saw mentioned

350Z and the S2000's are fairly slow, as for whoever mentioned the NSX, you wont get one for 6k

[Marlowe]

Not sure I'd call a 0-60 score of sub 6 seconds slow, but whatever tickles your fancy.

[Fizzy]

Not sure I'd call a 0-60 score of sub 6 seconds slow, but whatever tickles your fancy.

Indeed, especially when the favoured 8 series is a second slower

[screamin_weasel]

that 8 series looks great, and is going to be rarer than any of the jap cars, and will draw more respect. usually BMW drivers get zero respect, but thats i nice looking car, especially if you can get black ones.

[Stealthbomber]

that 8 series looks great, and is going to be rarer than any of the jap cars, and will draw more respect. usually BMW drivers get zero respect, but thats i nice looking car, especially if you can get black ones.

8-series BMWs were notoriously unreliable and not very well-made.

They were prone to rust and mechanical failure. The electrics were a brave attempt but they were implemented before the technology was truly reliable and suffered with heaps of failures.

 

The main thing, by a country mile, is the engine. Anything goes wrong with the engine and you can pretty-much scrap the car.

[Fizzy]

The 4.4l V8 is a pretty good engine though. A well serviced one should be good for several hundred thousand miles

[pits]

8-series BMWs were notoriously unreliable and not very well-made.

They were prone to rust and mechanical failure. The electrics were a brave attempt but they were implemented before the technology was truly reliable and suffered with heaps of failures.

 

The main thing, by a country mile, is the engine. Anything goes wrong with the engine and you can pretty-much scrap the car.

Taking it you own one? You do know the 4.4 litre V8 in the 840 is widely used across the whole BMW range so can easily be picked up?

You do know that only around one or two get broken a year.

 

Ours has never broken down, well not a genuine break down, it was taken for a service at "BMW Specialist" and bits were supposed to be done, and they werent, simple little gaskets to change. So we had the engine rebuilt and gearbox taken out and cleaned up, new TC seal etc was due a major service anyways, and as it is a mint example it was worth doing.

 

As for the engines going, they dont go wrong, they will go around the world, and when they break, they are a V8 one of the easiest engines to fix, you can get all the parts for them, or even a new engine out of a 740i for about £1000, so you would scrap a 6k plus rare car over an improbable engine failure, bearing in mind the prices of these have shot up over the past year

 

Rust, ours is a 95 not a spec of rust on it, they are very well undersealed from the factory, couple that with seriously thick hard paint, and hard laquer over top including base colours

 

Electrics, the only thing that ever goes wrong with these electrically is the center console display, sometimes the lights can go funny on them but again rarely, there are cars out there with worse electrics, the GTO for example the electrics in them are awfull.

 

Build qaulity, they feel like an 80k car, which is what they were, and they are built like an 80k car

 

Take this from an 8 series owner, look out for a good one and it shouldnt do you wrong, try to get the 4.4 litre V8, and an individual model as they are gaurenteed to be looked after. There are some dogs out ther which havnt been looked after, seen a fair few, but you can tell they havnt been looked after by who the owner is, ours is immaculate with

FBMWSH or FBMWSSH 2nd owner, p/o also put the 4.4 V8 in, hasnt put a foot wrong with us so far

[Stealthbomber]

Taking it you own one? You do know the 4.4 litre V8 in the 840 is widely used across the whole BMW range so can easily be picked up?

You do know that only around one or two get broken a year.

Sorry but there's simply not a chance of me gambling on one of these.

Forget it.

[pits]

Sorry but there's simply not a chance of me gambling on one of these.

Forget it.

 

So you have nothing to substantiate the reliability of the 8 series? No personal experiences of an 8 series?

[Stealthbomber]

So you have nothing to substantiate the reliability of the 8 series? No personal experiences of an 8 series?

I have plenty of experience of them.

One of my best friends works at the local BMW dealership and I often take my cars there to use the ramps when they're closed.

I've seen plenty of tatty 840's and the cost of repairing them is ridiculous.

 

That's beside the point though. I'm not interested in an 8-series BMW thanks. if you want to discuss what a great car your dad has then start a thread about it and stop bugging me.

[screamin_weasel]

is that a no then ??

 

i have to say, every japanese car ive been in, the interior has been pretty bleak, though saying that ive not been in any of the cars you've mentioned, but it doesnt seem to be something confined to your choices. my bro has an 's' reg toyota rav-4. its the top of the range, bells and whistles model, but the interior is a miserable meltdown of cheap grey plastic, greay leather, grey carpet, grey headlining. its pretty disgusting tbh. quite literally, the only bits of the dash that aren't grey are the little red and blue bits that tell you where your heater slide is, and the clock. bearing in mind the harsh, sparse, relatively uncomfortable interior in my car, i can honestly say the rav-4's his hideous. my mates M reg fiesta encore is a nicer place to be. seriously.

 

considering you sit inside the car when you're driving, and not looking at it from the outside, i wouldnt buy a car if i thought the interior was horrifically *suitcase*. you've got to sit in it, and live with it everytime you get in the car. if its not a nice place to be, you're going to be in a bad mood before you've even started the engine.

 

luckily for me, my interior is great. its just the rest of the car which annoys me