Stealthbomber Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 iMaD I've been buying AEGs for the past 9 years and have converted to clones (albeit I usually tart them up to where they cost more than any AEG, but that's my weird fixation ), they are no worse than Marui, I've yet to have a single AEG, clone or 'high end' fail on me, blockages is about it, Airsoft is full of snobs, ignore them, The whole point of the Chinese market being notoriously unstable is a valid one, one I'd never considered, I wonder if UK retailers are putting in large orders right now to weather the shortage that will surely come it was murder getting some models after the olympics, it still is for some makes ? I'm glad some people can see past the whole "Elitism" thing. Just to be TOTALLY clear, I have nothing at all against the quality of chinese guns. What I do have a HUGE problem with is that the market comes to rely upon them and they turn out to be an unreliable source of equipment. THAT is what bothers me. That and people who only read one thing and see something totally different. Link to post Share on other sites
Erik Cartman Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 Yes, we know. That was all established on the first page. Two days ago. Sorry. Didn't see. I just replied after reading the corresponding post. Which post was it exactly. Link to post Share on other sites
Stealthbomber Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 Sorry. Didn't see. I just replied after reading the corresponding post. Which post was it exactly. Read the thread. Link to post Share on other sites
Habakure Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 I like the fact we can get AEG's at a cheap price and do work near enough as well (Just some QC issues) as top end makers (even though the G&P has a line aimed at people who want a cheap AEG and they work well, so too CA). Though I have to agree with Stealth, that if we rely on AEG's being made in a country where it is illegal and its all under the table dealings, it could damage the buying community should it collapse (not talking about the companys that have a license to make for exportation only). With that in mind, it could take airsoft into a world where the price gets hicked up so much to make ends meet for the R&D etc, it could mean the end of cheaper AEG's and the end of AEG's within the £150 mark (And perhaps see it jump up to most AEG's being £280 plus for plastic bodied AEG's). Link to post Share on other sites
KWP Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 This shows how geographically monopolised the Airsoft gun business has always been. First we relied on the arrogant Japanese from Marui who still don't give a donkey *albatross* about what's going on outside their own borders; and now the Chinese who are unreliable, most of them operating in a legal gray zone, and who knows if child labour is involved or other inhumane conditions. I wait for the days when we see quality products and customer service made in USA. Link to post Share on other sites
EmptyChambers Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 Hahahahaha. Oh dear... Link to post Share on other sites
Rob15 Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 With that in mind, it could take airsoft into a world where the price gets hicked up so much to make ends meet for the R&D etc, it could mean the end of cheaper AEG's and the end of AEG's within the £150 mark (And perhaps see it jump up to most AEG's being £280 plus for plastic bodied AEG's). I wouldn't worry about that too much, even when £1 = $1.45 TM MC51s (One of the best stock AEGs about imo) were only £145 and a plastic ICS MP5 which is made in Taiwan is only £125 which instead of some rubbish battery comes with a much more usefull second mag and you could get an extremely good GBB for £65, less than half of these Chinese ones. I'd say the biggest difference the Chinese have made is cheaper mags, but only hicaps because STAR and MAG were years ahead of them in bringing real and midcap prices right down. This shows how geographically monopolised the Airsoft gun business has always been. First we relied on the arrogant Japanese from Marui who still don't give a donkey *albatross* about what's going on outside their own borders. I doubt they don't care at all about the market outside of Japan, and there is good evidence for this, the international (Yes, not just Japanese) Patents they have on the new M4 SOPMOD system. If they didn't care at all I doubt they'd have gone to the effort to get that. Link to post Share on other sites
GuzziHero Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 This shows how geographically monopolised the Airsoft gun business has always been. First we relied on the arrogant Japanese from Marui who still don't give a donkey *albatross* about what's going on outside their own borders; and now the Chinese who are unreliable, most of them operating in a legal gray zone, and who knows if child labour is involved or other inhumane conditions. I wait for the days when we see quality products and customer service made in USA. And you're paying $600 for a pistol because of minimum wage and unions. You've been enjoying the benefits of cheap labour for years. Unless you have said to a manufacturer "Look, I dont think I've paid enough for this, heres another $300, please give it to the workers in the factory", you have no room to complain If workers have been exploited then by having the products you already own, you have already contributed to that exploitation, so its a bit late to have a conscience now Link to post Share on other sites
-Angel- Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 They'd just employ mexicans... Link to post Share on other sites
Rob15 Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 They'd just employ mexicans... And instead of a naff battery you'd get free swine flu with every gun..... Link to post Share on other sites
Stag Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 I doubt they don't care at all about the market outside of Japan, and there is good evidence for this, the international (Yes, not just Japanese) Patents they have on the new M4 SOPMOD system. If they didn't care at all I doubt they'd have gone to the effort to get that. Oh, super. More M4s. Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Link to post Share on other sites
Rob15 Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 Oh, super. More M4s. Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Yes, of course TM only make M4s. We'll ignore all the other vast range of guns they make and used to make and forget that actually they tend to do more innovation than any other manufacturer around. EDIT : Thinking about it, haven't I seen almost every other manufacturer just release wave after wave of Mbores with minor alterations anyway? TMs range of M4s is pretty small compared to anyone else. Link to post Share on other sites
Stealthbomber Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 Oh, super. More M4s. Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Didn't we already do this one back on page 2 or 3? Somebody pointed out how TM only make AR15s and I noted that chinese companies like DBoys and JG produced dozens more AR15s than Marui ever did. Conversely, given that 95% of the chinese produce is a copy of a Jap design, and the chinese companies have yet to copy every jap gun, it's not physically possible for the chinese to be producing a more diverse range of products than the jap's do. Link to post Share on other sites
t_hum Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 This shows how geographically monopolised the Airsoft gun business has always been. First we relied on the arrogant Japanese from Marui who still don't give a donkey *albatross* about what's going on outside their own borders; and now the Chinese who are unreliable, most of them operating in a legal gray zone, and who knows if child labour is involved or other inhumane conditions. I wait for the days when we see quality products and customer service made in USA. I can't wait for the day when we see quality products made...anywhere, for a reasonable price. Everyone assumes that if cloners went away that we would all pay rediculous amounts for our guns. Not likely. Instead of competing solely on price manufacturers would compete on quality and innovation and price. Right now, whats the point in competing in quality and R&D when a company that doesnt give a crud about either can outsell you AND consumers think that quality and innovation are over rated (unless its cheap, of course)? The days of clone manufacturers are numbered if we say they are. I know we are all enamored with cheap ######. Honestly, if we are satisfied with 90% of what is being produced right now by manufacturers we have set the bar far too low. I believe that if we want true quality products we must demand better. Manufacturers will listen, either to our voice or our dollar votes. Face it guys, we perpetuate mediocre products when we snap up garbage just because its cheap. How many AGM gbbs have you seen recently that have 500% of the purchase price worth in replacement parts?! Yet people still flock to them. And you have to spend that 500% on parts because they saved $12 in material costs and $8 dollars in R&D. And they dont offer direct customer support. Our current market is a little backwards and its because of us as consumers as much as anybody else. EDIT: And for people who think that $100 dollars or whatever is fair for a clone gun, I disagree. Look at other products out in the world that are $100 dollars and had massive R&D, marketing, and customer support behind them. Im thinking a DeWalt cordless drill, for example. And it lasts....for years...with stresses umpteen times greater than an airsoft gun. Yet they do it. Cloners have the wool pulled over our eyes. And even worse are the companies that offer only marginally better products for 4 times more. Link to post Share on other sites
Habakure Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 I think the whole "sell more" thing comes into it when dealing with other products with huge r&d, they tend to be from a market base that sells a lot more than airsoft AEG's do. Also, Marui where the first one's to come up with micro AEG's (The Glock 18c anyone) and also the great P90! Link to post Share on other sites
t_hum Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 Certainly amortizing the cost of R&D over many many units helps keep costs down. But for these companies, its not just R&D. Its customer support, advertising, distribution, corporate offices, local branches, stocking a WIDE variety of spare parts, etc. I think we can hold airsoft manufacturers responsible for at LEAST one of those considering that they may sell 100 times fewer goods, but they also have 100 times less the overhead and operating costs. Link to post Share on other sites
Mike_West Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/10/explodi...n-was-actually/ I have no idea what kind of "imitation" was that to bump fire with lethal results, but there's some baaaad *suitcase* going on in China and we really, really DO NOT WANT it. Link to post Share on other sites
menatarms Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/10/explodi...n-was-actually/ I have no idea what kind of "imitation" was that to bump fire with lethal results, but there's some baaaad *suitcase* going on in China and we really, really DO NOT WANT it. Those aren't anything new .. they've been used in Taiwan by thugs for decades. made out of Jap. model guns. Usually the barrels aren't rifled. The bullets however are real. Link to post Share on other sites
Frontiers Posted September 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/10/explodi...n-was-actually/ I have no idea what kind of "imitation" was that to bump fire with lethal results, but there's some baaaad *suitcase* going on in China and we really, really DO NOT WANT it. im pretty sure is those things, like some people denied here it cannot be done but they showed in news and talked of imitation guns to be made in lethal form i guess is those ones. i guess if you can shoot it anything with that can kill or hurt bigtime is enough Link to post Share on other sites
spetsnazdave87 Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Also from the sound of it that guy was carrying a disguised, home made pistol so was probably not up to much good... Link to post Share on other sites
bal541 Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 competition is good, I like chinese guns even if the quality sometimes is suspect. *hugs galaxy mp5k* Link to post Share on other sites
KWP Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 ... I doubt they don't care at all about the market outside of Japan, and there is good evidence for this, the international (Yes, not just Japanese) Patents they have on the new M4 SOPMOD system. If they didn't care at all I doubt they'd have gone to the effort to get that. Don't wanna drift too much off topic. So just in brief: I only have one clone gun, the cheapo AGM M4 GBB rifle and that's been a wall hanger so far. Bought it just to see what's all the hype about GBB rifles and kept it because GBB rifles kick *albatross*. The rest of my tactical nylon stuff is 99.9% real world made in the US of A and most of them I have to order from there anyways as it's not available in shops. So, if you ask me, all Chinese Airsoft companies could wrap up for good tomorrow and I wouldn't give a rats anus. More on topic: I asked the locals here who are more familiar with the whole matter and it's not really big news. Everybody seems sure they will resume business soon. More worrysome would be if Airsoft gets more restricted or even banned here in Hong Kong as it's the major Airsoft distribution hub for the world. "Airsoft" or better Airguns were actually banned here before for a couple of years in the past because some idiots made it their hobby to snipe down people on the streets just for the fun of it. But I don't see that happening. Link to post Share on other sites
Moofner Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Also from the sound of it that guy was carrying a disguised, home made pistol so was probably not up to much good... Shot in the chest and neck artieries.... how many bullets did this guy stuff into his phone? And then on top of that did the phone actually work? Sheer crazyness making a gun out of a phone.... thats just as dumb as the reason this whole thread started... making real guns out of fake guns (TOYS)!!! Sometimes the stupid in this world mind boggles me. Link to post Share on other sites
spetsnazdave87 Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Almost as good as the guy in the states who lost a nut and crashed his car after the handgun bullet he put in his car's fusebox in place of an actual fuse went off and hit him in the groin. Link to post Share on other sites
Moofner Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Almost as good as the guy in the states who lost a nut and crashed his car after the handgun bullet he put in his car's fusebox in place of an actual fuse went off and hit him in the groin. Didn't that guy get a honorable mention in the Darwin Awards for that? Link to post Share on other sites
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