Big Chinese crackdown

[harborne blue]

I'm not gonna close this yet but if it continues to rage out of control it's getting flushed.

 

The thread is about a clamp-down on production of airsoft guns in China and how it affects us.

It's not about putting guns in paper bags or government conspiracies.

 

All I'm gonna add is that I think you're all nuts to endorse, and rely on, the supply of cheap chinese toy guns when, as this shows, it's a completely unreliable source.

 

It's not that we're reliant on China because it's necessarily cheap - the new JGs certainly aren't with their BAR-10 pushing the VSR close on price - it's that the ACM co.'s are making what people want:

Full metal guns and new models that aren't just endless rehashes of the bl###y M4. As a keen WW2er, ACM has given us a decent MP40, MP44, Tommy in m1928, Kar98 and now the Sten - guns that sell well and many players have been screaming for for years. What does TM offer - two new M4 that wobble a bit when you fire and need bespoke high price mags. Oh and an L96 that been available from several other co.'s for year plus some new skins for their tried and tested GBB pistol models.

 

ACM prices have also been responsible for pulling a lot of new players into the game when they can get a decent skirmishable AEG for £100.

 

Personally, I look to ACM to make new and interesting models as TM etc. don't seem to ever listen to what their customers actually want. If the factories get closed and this hit the flow of current models that would be bad. If it kyboshes the new models I've been tipped the wink about, that would really, really suck.

[The General]

Hmmm lets see.

 

MP40... errr... you are outranged by everone, even FAMAS owners!

MP44... break a lot and run at silly fps out of the box

1928 Thompson... totally wrong design

Kar98, that will be unskirmishable then

Sten... first run came with an unusable lipo and charger, non adjustable hop unit.

 

Yeah... epic win all round.

[ninja master of coffee]

This whole story sounds like the chinese government coming up with trumped up charges against a factory they don't like. I suppose it maybe that some idiot has decided to retool a replica gun factory to produce low-quality firearms and got in some serious trouble with the local authorities. My impression of the relationship between buisiness and government in china is that it's deeply shady. One thing to remember is that the legal system in china doesn't really operate like the legal systems in the west, for a start, individuals don't actually have any legal rights, it's more or less all left up to the discretion of the authorities so if they like someone and they're greasing their parms well enough then they can do what they like, if not they can get into some serious ###### very quikly. I'd be interested to know just how much manufacturing in china is in at least a quasi-legal status.

[Aitch]

Personally, I look to ACM to make new and interesting models as TM etc. don't seem to ever listen to what their customers actually want. If the factories get closed and this hit the flow of current models that would be bad. If it kyboshes the new models I've been tipped the wink about, that would really, really suck.

 

TM do listen to their customers, the Japanese market, TM do not distribute outside of Japan, they never have and never will, the only reason we get TM proucts is thanks to third party wholesalers,

If the chinese market dries up, so be it, it was good while it lasted, but if everytime there is a national event production ceases what is the point in them continuing ? after the olympics it was 4-6 months to get the flow running again and he likes of JG have been releasing pure s**t due to loss of moulds,

 

As for the comments to the quality of Chinese AEGs, they are no worse than the other brands, just the volume they sell in makes failure rates seem much higher, the Sten, that is good up to 50m (.3BB) out the box with it's non hop set up, sounds good to me, as for the unusable lipo, I have yet to find a chinese gun battery that is reliable, and I'm not brave enough to use their chargers

[The General]

TM do listen to their customers, the Japanese market, TM do not distribute outside of Japan, they never have and never will, the only reason we get TM proucts is thanks to third party wholesalers,

If the chinese market dries up, so be it, it was good while it lasted, but if everytime there is a national event production ceases what is the point in them continuing ? after the olympics it was 4-6 months to get the flow running again and he likes of JG have been releasing pure s**t due to loss of moulds,

 

As for the comments to the quality of Chinese AEGs, they are no worse than the other brands, just the volume they sell in makes failure rates seem much higher, the Sten, that is good up to 50m (.3BB) out the box with it's non hop set up, sounds good to me, as for the unusable lipo, I have yet to find a chinese gun battery that is reliable, and I'm not brave enough to use their chargers

 

Did actually find a reliable chinasoft battery, it came with my Cyma blowback MP5. A nunchuck 8.4v 1400 mah. Its been easily as good as anything by Vapex.

 

Nothing against chinasoft guns, just buy the ones that suit me!

[-Angel-]

Hmmm lets see.

 

MP40... errr... you are outranged by everone, even FAMAS owners!

MP44... break a lot and run at silly fps out of the box

1928 Thompson... totally wrong design

Kar98, that will be unskirmishable then

Sten... first run came with an unusable lipo and charger, non adjustable hop unit.

 

Yeah... epic win all round.

This shocking news just in: China guns need some tweaking.

 

*the audience gasps*

 

All of the guns you listed need minimal work to get them up to standard (bar the K98, which is dire in every regard), and you save hundreds on alternatives. TOP MP40 anyone? Shoei MP44? Viva Sten?

[H.U.N.K]

It all seems a bit odd to me.

 

Round here, an illegal firearm can go for less than a decent quality softer, so I have no idea what they had to gain????????

 

 

Greg.

 

QFT. Around Peterborough you can buy firearms from the wrong crowd for less than an Xbox 360...

[Coldgunner]

QFT. Around Peterborough you can buy firearms from the wrong crowd for less than an Xbox 360...

Ahh, a local!

 

Indeed, I bet its cheaper to get an illegal firearm in china than it would for many good quality replicas.

[Azulsky]

China Guns are definetly some of the best buys in the market currently. They provide solid bases for upgrades that would cost double had the user started with TM and had to bin all the stock parts for upgrades anyway.

[Stealthbomber]

It's not that we're reliant on China because it's necessarily cheap - the new JGs certainly aren't with their BAR-10 pushing the VSR close on price - it's that the ACM co.'s are making what people want:

Full metal guns and new models that aren't just endless rehashes of the bl###y M4. As a keen WW2er, ACM has given us a decent MP40, MP44, Tommy in m1928, Kar98 and now the Sten - guns that sell well and many players have been screaming for for years. What does TM offer - two new M4 that wobble a bit when you fire and need bespoke high price mags. Oh and an L96 that been available from several other co.'s for year plus some new skins for their tried and tested GBB pistol models.

All very interesting but it doesn't actually do anything to refute my suggestion that relying on an unreliable source of supply is not a wise thing to do.

How are your WW2 re-enactors going to feel if the chinese companies shut down for good?

 

Yes, the chinese companies have made a couple of new guns but you're in cloud-cuckoo land if you think that they produce a more diverse range of guns than the Jap's.

Go take a look at the range of guns that outfits like JG or DBoys sell.

In the TM line-up there's maybe half a dozen AR15s. It the DBoys line-up there's twenty or more. Same thing with JG.

Marui make springers, gas pistols, AEGs and remote-control tanks.

It's just bonkers to suggest that they produce a less diverse range than any chinese company.

[Rob15]

To add to that, get a copy of Guns Digest and you will see just what a huge range of guns the Japanese make, a lot of which never even make it to HK stores and also go look at the classic Japanese guns and you'll see a huge range of unusual ones there too.

[menatarms]

assault rifles are more difficult to acquire. AFAIK, harder to do so in HK and Japan but still possible

 

Hmm .. I don't know why this is so ..

 

It is illegal to own or carry a real steel firearm in Hong Kong period. Same thing for Japan, though there are shooting clubs where guns can be rented and shot .. inside the premises. There might be special licenses issued to Olympic athletes. I know there is one depiction in a movie where a Japanese man imported and owned a hunting rifle, but I don't know if this is pure fiction. If I had to guess I'd say it's a Hollywood script thing. For damn sure -- no one can own or operate an assualt rilfe in Japan.

 

South East Asia -- in Singapore -- they give you the death penalty for importing an Airsoft, and I believe even Airsoft has to be kept at an real steel gun club and shot there inside the premises. In Thailand -- friend of mine is a Colonel in the Army and his dad is a high ranking general .. he has Airsoft in his home. I asked him why can't he just import his own arms from the States since he went to Ranger School in the States as well as officer's school .. why not just bring back a real steel Knight's Armament, ZM LR-300, or Shrike .. he definitely qualifies for M/LE. He said nope! Customs would arrest him. I know Thai citizens can own and carry handguns, if the gun is kept in a case and the bullets separate. Of course Thailand is rampant with China Airsoft. I guess in the Philipines, firearms aren't a problem, as I know my friend's villa is staffed with private security with UZI's.

[menatarms]

BTW -- I looked into this, and everything I heard said that all this is being blown out of proportion. The factories that had trouble didn't have the right paper work. All those factories that had legitimate "licenses" were not reprimanded. This year is the 60th celebration of the founding of the PROC, hence the "crackdown".

 

But it is true .. about an year ago, the police en mass swept through Shenzen, Guangzhou, plus I guess any other Chinese city and made selling Airsoft illegal. So, this has been a pain for me, becuz now I must get all my clones through expensive Hong Kong ..

[Vercingetorix]

To those of you saying " who cares, chinese guns suck" you do realize that all those "high-end" guns you and I love are made in mainland china, too, right? Like G&P, CA, King Arms, etc, etc. THe only ones that are are Marui, ICS, VFC and the like (which are made in either Taiwan or Japan). So if the worst, "biblically proportional , fears come true, all you "clone haters" will be as hard hit

 

 

 

[leejinwen]

To those of you saying " who cares, chinese guns suck" you do realize that all those "high-end" guns you and I love are made in mainland china, too, right? Like G&P, CA, King Arms, etc, etc. THe only ones that are are Marui, ICS, VFC and the like (which are made in either Taiwan or Japan). So if the worst, "biblically proportional , fears come true, all you "clone haters" will be as hard hit

 

 

-G&P, CA, King Arms

 

Those are made in Hong Kong

[Frontiers]

-G&P, CA, King Arms

 

Those are made in Hong Kong

 

sorry to break your bubble mate but they are made in CHINA, like Real Sword also. I've been in the Classic Army factory myself i know where that is those other 2 i havent been in but ive heard they are here also. Hong Kong is so expensive it would be suicide to open a factory there

[menatarms]

-G&P, CA, King Arms

 

Those are made in Hong Kong

 

Nothing has been made in Hong Kong since the early 80's. If they were made in Hong Kong -- they would cost three times what they sell for now.

[Frontiers]

To those of you saying " who cares, chinese guns suck" you do realize that all those "high-end" guns you and I love are made in mainland china, too, right? Like G&P, CA, King Arms, etc, etc. THe only ones that are are Marui, ICS, VFC and the like (which are made in either Taiwan or Japan). So if the worst, "biblically proportional , fears come true, all you "clone haters" will be as hard hit

and if this would ever happen, prices would jump up high as the other factories would know Chinese where out of the game so they can put any price they desire.

[greg]

Chill out guys, the Chinese government officials just want thicker envelopes from the factories.

Yeah but that cost will be passed on to us, the paying customer.

 

Before you know it, you'll be expected to pay as much for a top quality knock off (+bribe) as you do for the original, to cover the cost of r&d etc.

 

There will be no 'cheapo' option for the penny pincher's. Oh dear.

 

You will just have a choice: Do I pay for R&D etc, keeping the original manufacturer involved in producing original, new ideas, or do I pay the same for the knock off, keeping some government official in drugs & hookers.

 

I love an even playing field.

 

 

Greg.

[greg]

QFT. Around Peterborough you can buy firearms from the wrong crowd for less than an Xbox 360...

I've no idea how much an X-box is, but I kind of put a quality softer between £100 (Marui Glock17) & £300.

 

Which is a very sad reflection of the area I love & live in.

 

 

Greg.

[Erik Cartman]

Nope, they were wrong. I just watched it again. The scientist claimed that "after calculating the speed of the gun being that it's 80 meter/s, the joules is about 12, which means that it can harm/kill someone"

 

Oh yeah, I'm chinese, and I understand mandarin. I thought we were all suppose to be good at math...lol. Damn scientists ruining our rep

 

80m/s muzzle velocity and 12J would result in a projectile of 3.75g or 57.8 grain

 

12J is 12 Newton metres or approximately 12 Kg.m/10 therefore 8.7lb.ft (the UK FAC free limit for air rifle is 12lb.ft)

 

a run of the mill air gun pellet is between 7 grain to 15 grain.

 

a 9x19mm parabellum is usually over 100 grain has has a muzzle velocity of around 1300 ft/s

 

So, the scientist chap was testing a rather weird gun, or there's something wrong with the numbers. The mass of the projectile is out of proportion with the muzzle velocity.

 

 

 

[Stealthbomber]

sorry to break your bubble mate but they are made in CHINA, like Real Sword also. I've been in the Classic Army factory myself i know where that is those other 2 i havent been in but ive heard they are here also. Hong Kong is so expensive it would be suicide to open a factory there

Well, I guess that's all the more reason to be annoyed at the clone companies.

This kind of thing never happened until every man and his dog set up a company making toy guns.

 

80m/s muzzle velocity and 12J would result in a projectile of 3.75g or 57.8 grain

 

12J is 12 Newton metres or approximately 12 Kg.m/10 therefore 8.7lb.ft (the UK FAC free limit for air rifle is 12lb.ft)

 

a run of the mill air gun pellet is between 7 grain to 15 grain.

 

a 9x19mm parabellum is usually over 100 grain has has a muzzle velocity of around 1300 ft/s

 

So, the scientist chap was testing a rather weird gun, or there's something wrong with the numbers. The mass of the projectile is out of proportion with the muzzle velocity.

 

Yes, we know.

That was all established on the first page.

Two days ago.

[iMaD]

Well tbh, I've seen kinda horrible things said to each other in this thread. Snide remarks, Which is kind of sad when we're all meant to be friends and get along.

 

All Frontiers said was that they'd shut down etc etc and people started saying stuff like "China clones suck anyway"

(I have a feeling that some of these opinions have a stupidity behind them, The people behind them may have the cash to spend on an overpriced Echo1 which are just china-softs re-branded with internal QC + you PAY for the garuantee bassically)

Which for the starting-out-noob such as My self

(who was converted from reenactments and the odd "plink" in my back garden shooting cans, with my Dad who owns a UKARA Membership and loads of "High-End" guns like TM, Marushin and KWA)

is kind of "daunting", in the way that I KNOW for a fact I couldnt afford a £300 Gun + Battery + Charger + Shipping.

 

When people say things like the prior, it always makes me think that I should be ashamed of what I have, but then I realise I can probably out-shoot you, out run you, out gun you and all for a lower buget than your on. I can get a lot of stuff from Chinese Wholesalers for WAY cheaper than anything here in the UK or the west (and Japan) for that matter.

 

Where as if I goto Gunners or Rsov

(Still want to know other retailers in HK and China)

I can buy a highly rated and "respected" DBoy's M4A1 in FULL metal, Metal Gearbox and TB as standard (Example) for what £62.79~ + Shipping + 15% VAT (if im unlucky) and for a mere £1.00 odd more (maybe less) you can have a full metal S-System! or the JG G36 for like £45.43 + shipping and VAT (again if im unlucky) which is on-par with the TM anyway!

 

Just my thaughts though.. Frredom of speech and all..

 

**RANT OVER**

[Aitch]

iMaD I've been buying AEGs for the past 9 years and have converted to clones (albeit I usually tart them up to where they cost more than any AEG, but that's my weird fixation ), they are no worse than Marui, I've yet to have a single AEG, clone or 'high end' fail on me, blockages is about it, Airsoft is full of snobs, ignore them,

 

The whole point of the Chinese market being notoriously unstable is a valid one, one I'd never considered, I wonder if UK retailers are putting in large orders right now to weather the shortage that will surely come it was murder getting some models after the olympics, it still is for some makes ?

[rudysw2]

-G&P, CA, King Arms

 

Those are made in Hong Kong

 

Those companies are based in HK - all manufacturing is done on the mainland.