Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

chris u'5

Forum Sale Problem

Recommended Posts

In all the years I have been a member here at Arnies I have stumbled across my first problem when it comes to selling items to a fellow member and I was hoping for some advice.

As many of you will know I regularly sell items here on Arnies and as far as I'm aware everyone I have dealt with has been happy with their purchases from me.

Anyway, through PMs I sold a TM Guarder Glock frame that had been custom painted by RSP to another forum member.

After some brief discussion and after the buyer received pictures he agreed to buy the frame and sent payment that same day and I sent the frame to him on the same day.

The buyer is based in Romania so obviously it would take a bit longer to reach him but unfortunately after several weeks I received a PM from the buyer to say he had not received the frame so I spoke to the lady at the Post Office who informed me that 25 days must elapse before a claim is made and she suggested I wait another week.

I informed the buyer of this and he agreed to wait which he did but after a week or so he contacted me again to say there was still no sign.

I visited the Post Office again to collect a claim form in order to seek a refund from Royal Mail for the missing item, which I completed and sent away but I do accept that there was a delay on my part in doing this (around 2 weeks) as I work overseas, I did explain this to the buyer who again, very reasonably, was happy to wait.

Today I received some more PMs from the buyer who is understandably upset at this point and he would like me to refund the money for the frame to him and for me to keep any refund I receive from Royal Mail.

Obviously if I receive a refund from RM the money will be refunded straight back to the buyer but I'm slightly unsure of my position at this stage.

I have the receipt from the Post Office to prove that I posted the frame to him on the same day he paid but I have no evidence to say that he has or has not received the frame, is it correct for me to refund the money to the buyer now or should the buyer wait until I receive a response from Royal Mail?

I would like to make clear that I hold no malice toward the buyer and I can completely understand that he his upset but if I have evidence to say the item was posted am I liable for the loss? Or is it reasonable for the buyer to wait until I hear from Royal Mail?

Thanks for the help guys.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In UK distance selling rules you the seller ARE responsible for any goods sent via post until the recipient receives/accepts them, it is why Recorded deliveries are a must so you get the signature as proof of receipt, sellers should be aware of thism some unscrupulous people could take a non registered delivery item and keep it whilst making a claim, but I take it you insured the package seing you are claiming ? so neither of you should lose out :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i would say wait, you might not get your money back though.

 

What type of mail did you send it? i.e first class/ overseas/ special delivery ect

 

did you pay extra for insuramce?

 

and also it might have been lost in romania in which case its not the royal mails fault.

 

ALso if you have the receipt royal mail should be able to run the order down for you and see exactly where the package went missing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

always use recorded/signed for

i wont buy from people who dont use tracking,i pay for the postage costs so i want tracking numbers.

the seller is responsible for a parcel until the buyer receives it.

 

royal mail cant track anything without a tracking number...period.ive been in this situation myself,i made a claim and royal mail made it a pain in the *albatross* to follow through with ma claim....now everything is tracked,if some one buys from me but wants cheaper postage costs then its tough......i have to protect myself.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just checked the receipt and it was sent via 'International Airmail Small Packet'

 

It didn't ask specifically for insurance to be honest, I did what I always do and said "can I post this to Europe/America please" fortunately of all the items I have sent overseas none have gone missing.

 

But if a claim has already been submitted to RM then is it not reasonable to wait for their verdict before taking any further action?

 

If they don't refund the money and after I seek legal advice and if that legal advice suggests that I am liable then I will of course refund the money but until then is it not reasonable to wait for RMs decision? (despite the obvious annoyance and inconvenience to the buyer)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
always use recorded/signed for

i wont buy from people who dont use tracking,i pay for the postage costs so i want tracking numbers.

the seller is responsible for a parcel until the buyer receives it.

 

royal mail cant track anything without a tracking number...period.ive been in this situation myself,i made a claim and royal mail made it a pain in the *albatross* to follow through with ma claim....now everything is tracked,if some one buys from me but wants cheaper postage costs then its tough......i have to protect myself.

Please remember that this item was posted to Romania.

From my experience as an ebay seller and posting items overseas, items are not traceable when using RM unless you send the item via International Signed For which was not requested by the buyer.

The buyer mentioned he was interested in overnight courier delivery but I told him this would significantly increase the cost of the item and as a result he was happy to proceed with Royal Mail delivery

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

better, wait

but donot hope the post office if you do not have the tracking number.

I used to sell model kit on ebay, but once the buyer did not receive it, so i claim through the post office, their response is "we are sorry heard that, but we can not see any reason bla bla" then they give me 6 first class stamp.....want me continue use their service.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
better, wait

but donot hope the post office if you do not have the tracking number.

I used to sell model kit on ebay, but once the buyer did not receive it, so i claim through the post office, their response is "we are sorry heard that, but we can not see any reason bla bla" then they give me 6 first class stamp.....want me continue use their service.

Dude, the Union Flag in your profile suggests you are posting from a location inside the UK.

 

We have hundreds of members who live in different countries all over Europe and Asia.

 

THEY ALL SPEAK BETTER ENGLISH THAN YOU.

 

Sort it out. :waggle:

 

On topic, if the buyer says he didn't get the item and you can't prove otherwise then you need to refund him. That's just the way the mop flops.

Your own claim, from the Post Office, should be a totally seperate affair.

Frankly, you shouldn't be awaiting the claim to be payed before making the refund.

 

Beyond that, there's a good reason why a lot of eBay sellers refuse to ship to Eastern Europe. <_<

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To all the people saying used a recorded/special delivery service, bear in mind this was an overseas sale.

 

While there are Airsure and International Signed for options most are only tracked until the point where the parcel leaves the UK, If I remember correctly there are only 12 EU countries where these services are trackable the full way. Past that the extra cost of these services is almost always a waste of money, if you make a claim (And this is in the Royal Mail T&C, might be worth looking at) then its almost certain that they'll say it was lost after it left the UK and that they are not liable for any cost.

 

If its a Guarder glock frame i'm guessing it isn't a hugely expensive item and personally I wouldn't be bothering seeking legal advice unless it is free, however by using the Royal Mail service you have agreed to their T&Cs so they can just use the get out of saying it was lost outside the UK and you won't have a leg to stand on.

 

With regards to distance selling regulations they were designed for businesses selling by mail order and not personal sales, although its generally considered it is the sellers responsibility to ensure the item arrives although i'm not certain it is a legal requirement as afaik there are no specific laws relating to personal distance selling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been thinking about this a lot since I started the thread so thank you to everyone who has posted replies.

 

No I can't prove the he has or hasn't received the item but I can prove that I posted the item and as the Distance Selling Regulations don't apply to private sales (and probably not to overseas sales??) then I'm not going to be held responsible for an error made by Royal Mail or the Romanian Post Office. If it had been the case that I didn't have a receipt as evidence that I had posted the frame then it would have been a different matter, but I do.

I also don't believe the claim is a totally separate affair and after much consideration I wont be refunding any money until I receive a response from RM (I have informed the buyer of this)

Once I receive a reply I will inform the buyer first and then post the result here.

If they refund the money it will be sent straight to the buyer but if they don't then I will discuss the next step with him and try to come to an agreement.

Thanks again to everyone who has helped :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and the use of session cookies.