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grundig

Force Recon Kit Discussion

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Real Steel stuff is expensive because it's not made by little chinese children in sweatshops.

 

Real steel stuff is expensive because a name brand company has to recoup it's R&D costs and yes, the products are built to higher tolerances and specs.

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LOL I understand the china sweatshop thing. And i realize anything not pot metal is more expensive but still it's how many ounces of what?

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Anyway, I think people have the wrong impression about Force Recon companies. Force Recon is not part of SOCOM (MARSOC is). Force Recon is also only company (roughly 150 people) sized. When you're a company sized unit you don't have a generous budget, especially during non-war time. Yeah there is cool gear that gets sent down from higher because it is specifically for recon and recon operators, but then you have to make do with everything else. That means old weapons, old training devices/facilities, old gear, and old vehicles.

 

For comparison, Recon BN's are relatively rich compared to Force Recon companies. Obviously they have more people, but they can afford to buy nice stuff for everybody. Everyone gets a surefire, everyone gets the latest gortex, everyone has a bottom rail for their M4. My last deployment, they bought BRAND NEW M4s for everybody! Even the lowly private who works in the vehicle repair bay who will never go outside the wire.

 

That's money, yo.

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Thanks for bringing that up Shadow.

 

 

But that brings up a question Ive been thinking about lately, let say a Force guy get this crappiest piece of equipment out their( i know, i know, they make do), but if he wanted to replace some of it with private purchases, what all is he allow to use/replace?

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Thanks shadow. I guess that pic I linked must have been of Recon Battalion since they had all the Block II stuff. I'm not sure if I want to do an FR or Recon Battalion build but at least I get get started with the gun (major differences seem to be in the accessoeries.)

 

Anyway I'll keep you guys updated with my gun and eventually my kit. I've learned a lot from this thread. :)

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Which picture is it? Maybe it is of MARSOC?

 

kodiak: Thankfully "crappy" is relative because a lot of the issued stuff (the "crappy" stuff) is actually quite acceptable. It may just not be enough or may be too much for Recon's needs, hence crappy not because of the quality but because of the difference in capability.

 

Operators are allowed to subsidize their own gear to an extent. There are certain things they are allowed to purchase for themselves. I can't provide a complete list and every "what-if" scenario but generally major components of a rifle or firearm are a no, unless authorized/installed by an armorer and authorized by command. Ballistic components like soft-armor panels and the trauma plates are also a no, unless they are authorized by the DoD and the Platoon Commander and probably the Company Commander. The reason for this is if you start using your own stuff and you die because of it, who becomes responsible? The Command? The Marines? You (who are now dead or seriously wounded)?

 

Most common private purchase stuff are things like bags, rucksacks, pouches, weapon grips, accessories (lights, panels, stocks), vests, and chest rigs.

 

Optics have to be able to do the same job as the issued item, it is up to the discretion of the Platoon leadership.

 

Major parts like firearms, parts for the operation of the firearm, and armor are things I call "liability items." If they fail and you are hurt or die because of it, then your beneficiaries and the unit are really *fruitcage*ed. Some Marines don't understand this. I will provide an example.

 

You decided that you didn't like your SAPI plate and switched it out with "something better" but wasn't authorized by the DoD. Later on you go into battle and get shot through the plate and heart and then you either die or become crippled for life (if you somehow survived a gunshot wound to the heart). The Marines will investigate this (and it will be investigated) and find you didn't use approved armor. Because you died from your own actions and not the fault of the Marines, your military life insurance goes away. Any other benefits for your family goes away. If you were only crippled your disability compensation (from this horrible injury) will also be void.

 

The same things goes with your helmet or a major component of the firearm like an unauthorized bolt or barrel.

 

But most everything else is fair game. As long as the item is tactical and can do at least the job of the item it is replacing, then most leaders won't have a problem with it.

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Yeah, the MSOBs (Marine Special Operation Battalion) are a part of MARSOC (Marine Special Operations Command), which falls under USSOCOM (United States Special Operations Command).

 

From what I understand, USSOCOM has an unlimited or nearly unlimited budget. So MSOBs have no problem getting Block 2/Block 3/Block Whatever or the latest anything, because hey just ask SOCOM for more money.

 

Whether or not this is true, I can't be certain (about the unlimited budget part). But I am fairly confident it is.

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They're not cheap either. I've been thinking of picking one up (Kimber Desert Warrior) as a back-up sidearm to go with my AR-15, but at roughly $1400 (in Hawaii) for a used one. It is a really beautiful piece of product though.

 

Here this should help:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States..._Reconnaissance

 

It explains it better than I can.

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Thanks from here too, Shadow! You made clear a lot of things.

But there is something I don't get. You just mentioned you were thinking on buying a Kimber Desert Warrior. Can you buy a sidearm other than the issued one? Or using one instead or beside your issued M9?

 

 

Ontopic:

 

I received my Pantac MBSS Hydration Carrier yesterday. The first part of my future FR loadout. Now I mounted it on my EOTV, it looks strange. :) But I'm on low budget now, gotta make it with I have. Want somebody pictures?

 

The hydration stuff in it is quite fair. I just have to get rid of that ###### rubber taste from the water first. But as far as I tested there were no leaks, holds 2,5 litre also there is enough place for BBs, batteries, tools, food, porn magazines, etc.

But a skirmish test is yet to be done.

For approximately 50 USD this backpack was a really good deal, the EI one was 3-400 USD on ebay. Even if I have to replace the hydration system with a real camelbak or WXP one.

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Well I'm no longer in the Marines, so I can buy whatever I want as long as it is legal.

 

When I was in the Marines, I was issued an M9. But to answer your question, no you cannot buy your own sidearm or a sidearm different from what you've been issued. That's the general policy.

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Ive been following this thread on and off since Mk1 and I haven't seen many pics of current FR with M203's. Id assume that they would have them, its one hell of a force multiplier, especially with a smaller unit. Anyone have a say on this?

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They have them, but they aren't issued to every Marine, and there aren't a ton of pics out there. But if you look around ( other sites ) you will see they are issued and used pretty commonly.

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Then I'll go ahead and get one :D . Thanks for the link Fatal, part of my worry was that I hadn't actually seen them for sale to civilians, so I was considering picking up a few to stockpile. If I know they're available I'll just pick up one since it's cheaper and find more if the issue comes up.

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