British Kit

[Azulsky]

match grade barrels are in all dm type weapons in the US inventory

 

The LMT rifle will probably do well but i would imagine the 417 is probably a grade higher

[PWRRTiger16]

Can someone tell me what's wrong with the L7 Just seems like people are hating on it because it's not the 417

[spetsnazdave87]

Apart from the HK417 beating it in ALL categories, a bit of looking around at articles says the LM might not be all that bad so perhaps not so much of a disaster (hopeful thinking?). US police seem to like it a lot and while admittedly Afghanistan is a whole different ballgame at least someone out there has used it and thought it decent before now...

[Azulsky]

I think its a case of the HK417 being overbuilt as compared to the LMT being just built well. The only thing i can really hit it hard on is that its SS and not 4150

 

I would sure like to hear some dissenting opinion with facts if im wrong

[PWRRTiger16]

Apart from the HK417 beating it in ALL categories, a bit of looking around at articles says the LM might not be all that bad so perhaps not so much of a disaster (hopeful thinking?). US police seem to like it a lot and while admittedly Afghanistan is a whole different ballgame at least someone out there has used it and thought it decent before now...

 

 

And where's the proof of that have you been in the tests?

 

OP, what's wrong with the LM7? Since you're involved with PECOC, what's the HK417 done to beat the LM7?

[spetsnazdave87]

Despite not going through a proper trial process, having no automatic function, no forward assist, a fixed stock (bloody useless in cqb), a Stainless match barrel (try putting a thousand rounds down it in a few hours and see what happens ).

 

The 417 is superior in every way, yet the LM7 was chosen. All i can say is that internal politics are a funny thing and Darkchild is not a happy boy.

(i was one of the guys that trialled the 417, every person that saw them both together preferred the 417 over the LM7)

 

That might not be all the categories fair enough but it seems to be enough to be getting on with... I wasn't at the tests, no, but he was and didn't seem to think much of it

 

Bit of internet research says the LM7 probably isn't an outright disaster, but the 417 seems a far superior choice.

[darkchild130]

to answer a lot of the questions on here in no particular order:

 

The L86 will stay in our inventory with the new rifle in place. It will be down to individual units to decide what to take on the ground.

 

The LM7 is chambered for 7.62mm (would be a pretty dumb trial otherwise)

 

Crye are making a camouflage which is in the colours of multicam, with the pattern of DPM (but a 6 colour variant).

 

The LM7 is not really a bad rifle, as all problems can be rectified. Problems include a fixed sniper stock, no foward assist, no full auto (useful for compound clearance), STAINLESS match barrel (not going into ballistics but this is a problem), The aforementioned gas system that is harder to clean and has more stoppages than the 417, The mags are similar to colt style ones and have weak springs (which causes stoppages).

 

another (potentially massive) problem is the support. LMT literally bolt together different bits to make their guns, through a number of sub contractors. The 417 is all HK. the implications are obvious.

 

The LM7 is not a terrible weapon, but the 417 is better. Is is pretty much everything we needed right out of the box.

We have been cheated out of a decent weapon, and the MOD will probably spend the next 10 years trying to make the LM7 better (like the L85)

 

If i've missed anything let me know.

 

Darkchild

[PWRRTiger16]

Ahh that clears it all up.

[Habakure]

Can't wait to see pictures of the new camo, sounds very interesting.

[kodiak22]

Any updates on...... well anything, but specifically the new DPM, Dark?

[darkchild130]

I will be doing my PECOC review next week hopefully. I would have done it this week but my wife also got a weeks leave so i've been spending time with her.

 

Have no idea when info on the new DPM will come about but you can be sure i'll be on here with details as soon as i know.

 

Darkchild

[kodiak22]

Sweet cant wait.

[darkchild130]

Sooo, PECOC.

 

 

There's a lot more to the PECOC system than that, but i will be only including stuff that may be of interest to airsofters. I have not included various things like underwear, socks, boots (same as current service ones, meindls, lowas and magnums) sleeping systems and warm kit (mainly because it came from the manufacturer incorrectly sized).

 

I will go into detail on stuff like Helmet, webbing and body armour, and broadly brush over stuff like the daysack and bergan as they're not that interesting.

 

Now i have to go and take individual pics of items

Im not the best photographer in the world but you will get the gist of it, not ideal conditions indoors in rainy weather anyway.

 

EDIT: please disregard the colour patterns of the kit too, the load bearing gear is in Hybrid 6 and the clothing obviously DDPM. Both of these will be replaced by Crye DPM when it becomes available.

 

Darkchild

[askeytheman]

Looks good, with the exception of the colour scheme.

 

I almost commented before reading the post with 'OH NOES THE MOOFLAGE BURNS MA EYES'.

[darkchild130]

Right, first up, helmet.

 

PECOC helmet (probably end up being called mk8 or something)

 

Here's the spiel: Its 600g lighter than the current mk6A and 200g lighter than the mk7. Im not permitted to talk about ballistic protection but suffice to say its equal to a mk6A. As you can see its higher cut at the back and more "squared off" at the front, making it easier to use in the prone position and when looking through weapon sights.

 

Here you can see the harness

Which is fully adjustable and truth be told, is quite comfy.

 

With your helmet you get a crapload of these little pads

so you can fit it to your own bonce better. The helmets themselves come in the usual sizes (small medium large and outsize) but the pads do help.

 

Problems you can immediately see here are that there is no ventilation, making the helmet very hot to wear for any length of time. You could pad out the top to create a gap but that would raise the helmet too far off your head.

Also, the pads themsleves are very weakly constructed and tear after a couple of re-positionings. It seems that the velcro is far stronger than the stitching of the pads.

 

The pads are constructed from a gel substance covered in soft material. This material soaks up sweat and they effectively turn into little soggy sponges within minutes of any physical activity.

 

Apparantly, future iterations of the pads will have leather coverings to alleviate these problems (like the mk6A, DUH!!!) I dont see why they didnt do this in the first place.

 

Here i've quickly thrown it on so you can see how it sits on a human (barely) head

you can see the coverage is pretty good, though you end up looking a bit like the bad guy out of space balls.

 

In summary, i think this is a good piece of kit, providing the manufacturers rectify the small problems that arose on the trials.

 

Darkchild

[darkchild130]

Just for interest, here are a couple of pics of the "Halo"

 

 

this thing is a series of mounting point for various items (which i dont own but have trialled) which will be issued mainly to top cover and gunners in Jackals, wmiks etc.

 

The side rails are basically inverted picatinny mounts, and yes that does mean you can mount the helmet onto your rifle

These come with a couple of little brackets so you can mount surefires (also part of the PECOC kit) onto your helmet.

 

The front bracket doubles up as a "Visor" mount which is basically a shaped pair of dust goggles that raise and lower on a little arm, and an NVG mount.

 

The brackets fore and aft of the halo on each side are for mounting the armoured "mandible" which covers your face below the eyes. When mounted and worn with the visor down, you literally look like an ODST from halo, as well as being completely unable to fire a rifle (the mandible ruins your cheek weld and eye relief)

But keep in mind that this is primarily designed for people who will be firing HMG, GMG or GPMG, so thats not really an issue.

 

Darkchild

[Azubi]

Class! Nice one, cheers.

[Kyrian_Zenda]

Very nice, I'm liking that halo thing. How useful is it? And what's the thinking behind the inverted rails? Strikes me it would be more useful to have normal rails so you can mount things to it.

 

Looking forward to seeing the word on the vest.

[darkchild130]

The things behind the rails are slots for attaching the mandible. I would also have normal rails, but the army is stupid so there you go.

 

Personally i think the armour will be very useful for gunners, and the ability to head mount things without a menagerie of straps is a good idea too, i just hope they buy enough brackets to issue every man more than one, cos i bet they get broken quite often on the ground.

 

Darkchild

[darkchild130]

Body armour.

 

This is a size 180/96 (my size) current gen PECOC body armour vest. Its rated as equal to an osprey, yet it has thinner plates.

Please ignore the pouch placement, i rigged it up for mech warfare and havent taken the pouches off (they will be reviewed later)

 

 

This armour is, how can I put it...... the biggest piece of turd i have ever had the misfortune to test.

 

That about sums it up. The cover is made out of some crappy 500d cordura that the manufacturers are peddling as "lightweight" 1000d.

No, just no.

There is no triple, or even double stitching on the vast majority of the cover, no bar tacking, they replaced all the MOLLE real estate on the front with a pathetic buckle system that broke the FIRST TIME I put it on.

 

It doesn't fit properly, its too tight in the chest. This isnt too bad until you put on fully packed webbing and a daysack, which fits snugly to the vest thanks to all the non slip material involved.

Apparantly the geniuses that implemented this didnt realise that the weight of your gear would drag the back of the vest down, causing the front plate to ride up and choke the wearer!!

excellent, we can die before we even reach the battle!!

 

Good points, they sorted out the profiling of the armour and plate entry so its safer and lower profile than osprey.

 

 

And the plates themselves are quite clever i guess, the theory behind the dimpling being that incoming frag or rounds will always hit at an angle rather than square on, thus increasing the effectiveness of the plate (but maybe creating some wild ricochet scenarios )

 

 

In summary, this vest is totally inadequate. Keep in mind that though my scything criticism raises all the various problems with this vest, it has another 2 YEARS of development time left, so I have faith the final product will be considerably better.

 

Feel free to ask any questions. I'm keeping these reviews quite short cos i'd rather answer any queries than try to think of every relevant fact in a oner.

Next up, webbing.

 

MODS: could one of you please put this thread back into gear discussion where i originally posted it? cheers

 

Darkchild

[Grim]

seems like a complete piece of junk then. is there any reason thay added tose staps to the front? And what about the 1 time the frag some how doea manage to hit square on? and what about incoming rounds what of the plates capability to stop those?

 

Grim

[darkchild130]

Same as Osprey, i think the material is more compressed (i'm no scientist) but they are no lighter than Osprey plates and are rated the same.

 

I have absolutely no idea what bright spark decided to change the closure system to the front, obviously the r-tards decided it was more important than actually being able to mount kit on your armour :

 

EDIT: i dont think you got what i meant about incoming fire always hitting at an angle. The dimpling of the plate FORCES all incoming fire to hit at an angle, in the same way that a tank's forward armour plates are slanted.

 

Darkchild

[Grim]

ahh i get what you mean now.

 

Looking forward to the webbing mini review.

 

Grim

[PWRRTiger16]

I'm desperate to see the Cyre DPM.

[Kingmob3]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/sci/tech/7811567.stm

Plates probably have something to do with this research.

Thanks for the pics.

KM