Searching for a flashlight

[swannie_2006]

Hello,

 

I want to spice up the look of my M4 and decided to add a flashlight to it. But I don't know which one to get. I looked at various sources but couldn't find one that I really liked. With all the geardos and semi-geardos out here I thought it would be a good idea to pick your brains.

 

What I am looking for:

 

- black or grey colour

- metal body (preferable 6061 alu)

- NO built-in rail (I want to mount it using a DD offset mount so it can be used as a regular flashlight as well)

- should put out at least 90 lumen

- should run on CR123 or similar

- replacement bulbs should be readiliy available (if not LED/CREE)

- momentary on/off tail cap (no stupid strobe and what not), twist tail cap for constant on

- low profile

 

Something like the following:

 

Flashlight in the 5th picture

ICS Aurora 101 Combat torch

 

Thanks for the great ideas in advance

 

[Rob15]

Sounds like you want a Surefire 6P.

 

I just bought a Surefire 6P classic and it is extremely nice, and would seem to suit most of your requirements (Lumen rating being the exception)

 

http://www.mindyourfingers.co.uk/P99.html

[swannie_2006]

Not bad. But I have something longer in my mind. Like the SureFire M3 Combat torch But I would be insane to shell out 240 GBP for it.

The Surefire E2DL Executive Defender LED Black Crenallated sounds more promising. But let's wait for other ideas.

[Rob15]

Thinking about it, how about this?

 

http://www.mindyourfingers.co.uk/cgi-bin/s...tml%23a238#a238

 

That does meet all you're requirements and the price isn't too bad either.

[Vercingetorix]

You want longer? Surefire 9P or G3. Then get some Malcoff LED drop ins, and done.

 

I recently got a 6P and I LOVE it. Its more than enough for my needs, and with a malcoff drop in bulb, I think it'd be more than good enough. If I were to get a dedicated gun light, though, I'd get an E2 flashlight and the new scout light LED head. BUdget scout light

[galactica]

the scout light abides. That is all.

 

(built-in rail though, so not right for Swannie)

[Jin15]

Surefire 6P, 9P, G2, or G3. Any will work for your needs and replacement bulbs are widely available. Malkoff Devices make some excellent drop in high power replacements if that's something you're interested in.

 

Personally I'd recommend the G2 or a G3 if you want something longer. I myself was very skeptical of a "plastic flashlight" but I've been extremely impressed with my G2. The Nitrolon polymer compound they use for these lights makes them much lighter than their aluminum counterparts and actually stronger and more durable as well. Also, it doesn't get cold in the winter and costs a fair bit less.

 

So... stronger, tougher, lighter, and cheaper. What's not to like?

Most real steel shooters who keep up with the times have nothing but praise for Surefire's nitrolon lights. I love mine and I think you will love yours too. After working with my G2 for a while I put the 6P up on the shelf, the G2 is my light of choice now.

[Agent Hunk]

+1000 to the Surefire 6P

 

You can get them for pretty good deals on E-Bay.

 

If you feel its too short add one of these:

 

http://www.lighthound.com/Solarforce-L2-Fl...E18_p_2808.html

 

http://www.lighthound.com/Solarforce-L2-Fl...ECR_p_1625.html

 

The 6P LED may not be the brightest but its is certain;y bright enough and 11 hours of light off two batteries is tough to beat.

[BigAl]

Try e nay you'll get pages of results some at excellent prices.

[greg]

But let's wait for other ideas.

Going on your pictures, I'd say a 2xcr123a type is what you are after. I guess you specify 3 cell, as you want more power? I'll cover that later......

 

The Sure fire 6P was the benchmark light in this category.

 

Be aware that Surefire have a well deserved reputation for making the very best flashlight casings available. There is very little out there that offers a better quality flashlight housing. They have been doing this forever & were the 'only choice'.

 

This is why they are so expensive. In the last few years, things have changed.

 

If you are happy to compromise on the quality of the casing, for a fraction of the price, you will get a lot more features & 'light', if you get my drift.

 

Dealextreem offer loads of 'Cree' led options from companies like Ultrafire. These are very cheap, highly functional torches. You will possibly find a 2xcr123/1x18650, with over 200 lumens for around a tenner, delivered. You will also find other features such as strobe, s.o.s. & variable power settings.

 

For better quality (Maglite-ish), I would recommend the Fenix TK11 R2 @ about £65. It claims 2 modes,240 lumen turbo (more than enough bright, white light for most) & 60 lumen general. It comes with the sort of tail switch you want & a remote pressure switch is available for about £18. (Heinnie Haynes). Being led, the lamp will probably outlive you. The TK11, offers the advantage of use on the 18650 rechargeable battery. On 'turbo', this will last over 2.5 hrs per charge. Nearly twice as long as a pair of expensive cr123's.

 

The olite M20 R2 warrior is very similar. The main functional difference between this & the Fenix, is the tint on the beam. As you know, all lights have a tint, from white. Incandescent bulbs are typically perceived as orange/yellow, where as leds, er, ain't. There is whole science surrounding this, but in short, the Fenix leds tend to favor an indigo (blue/violet) tint & the olite favors green/turquoise. In practice you would only notice this, if you shine them, side by side, onto a white surface. It does mean, that the Fenix is best in CQB, as it is better for illuminating modern bright colors found in decorated rooms. The olite is better in the woods, where natural foliage is found. The olite is also hard to get hold of from a UK supplier.

 

If you are happy to go a bit bigger, consider the G&P Scorpion series R500s at about £75 (AA). Same tail switch you want. Remote pressure switches are hard to come buy but it shares the same thread as the Ledwave C1/3, so these can be used, £21.40 (USMC).

 

This torch is a copy of Blackhawk's Legacy XR/XHR7, which was offered in competition to Surefire's M4 Devastator.

 

The R500 offers a single mode incandescent (yellowish) 500 lumens & comes, like the XHR7, with a built in rechargeable power source. This can be charged from mains or a car cigarette lighter, so handy for charging on the way to a site.

 

I have an M4 devastator & an R500. The G&P throws out as much light & I prefer it for skirmishing. It saves on batteries &, being cheaper, I don't care if it gets beaten up. In fact have all the above lights I have mentioned. This is why I can confidently say that the Surefire's are a bit 'last year', when it comes to out put of light, compared to the cheaper led counterparts.

 

Which ever way you go, make sure you protect the lens appropriately, as an unlucky shot will take out the lens, on all the lights we have talked about. Yes, even the Surefires. PM me, if you are local to West London as I can offer a protective solution,,,,,,,, for a small fee.

 

 

Greg.

[greg]

Er, double.

 

Bugger.

 

 

Greg.

[swannie_2006]

Hi Greg,

 

First of all, thanks for your detailed reply. It was a real joy to read. I love history. A few points to clarify, though.

 

- The M4 I want to use the new light with is not in my gallery yet (any existing pictures would only fool you). The rifle will only be used in woodland games hence the minimum 90 lumen output requirement (larger distance to light up).

- I have the following torches already and for one reason or other just wouldn't fulfill my needs:

• UltrafFre LED flashlight (2x CR123) -> tail-cap is not momentary on
• SpiderFire LED flashlight (2x CR123) -> mounted permamently onto my MP5 with a pressure switch
• G&P R500 -> too bulky
• RICO Tactics Beta-9 (250 lumen) -> built-in rail, pressure switch only

 

The Fenix TK11 R2 flashlight sounds very promising. Though I am not sure if it is 34mm wide at the bezel or at the body (hint: the DD offset mount I'll use with it is for 1 inch body).

 

I looked at the Olight (spelling, man ) M20 R2. Found a couple of reviews, etc. I think I am in love. The light is gorgeous, performs just the way I need it (though I have a bit of a cold feet about the "press for momentary on"/"clicky for constant on" feature. Maybe it is just me and my past experience with the *suitcase* quality of my Ultrafire/Spiderfire lights' tail caps that puts me off. Although it has a strobe function but it is easy to not to use that feature so I think I can live with that.

 

Another huge bonus: it seems to be usable outside of airsoft just as well. Oh, and here is a UK retailer having it in stock: M20 Warrior Olive

 

I believe my problem is solved, gentlemen.

 

Jin15 : thanks for your reply as well. I was quite tempted to get a Surefire (yeah, brand is a brand and I am such a snob) but Greg's Olight changed my mind. I'll see if I still want it after 2 weeks. If so, then I buy the Warrior (in olive).

 

Out.

[greg]

1, The Fenix TK11 R2 flashlight sounds very promising. Though I am not sure if it is 34mm wide at the bezel or at the body (hint: the DD offset mount I'll use with it is for 1 inch body).

 

2, I looked at the Olight (spelling, man ) M20 R2. Found a couple of reviews, etc. I think I am in love. The light is gorgeous, performs just the way I need it (though I have a bit of a cold feet about the "press for momentary on"/"clicky for constant on" feature. Maybe it is just me and my past experience with the *suitcase* quality of my Ultrafire/Spiderfire lights' tail caps that puts me off. Although it has a strobe function but it is easy to not to use that feature so I think I can live with that.

 

3, Oh, and here is a UK retailer having it in stock: M20 Warrior Olive

You have a good collection of lights. One more wont hurt. I'm surprised you see the R500 as too bulky but you are right, the bezel is big compared to the 6p copies.

 

1, It's 34 across the bezel.

 

2, I don't think you will have any probs between the momentary & click on. There is a good bit of travel between the two & the click on it quite distinct. The strobe etc. are controlled off the bezel, so once set, won't interfere. Definitely consider the rechargeable 18650's if you don't already have one. They last forever. It mounts well, I make the body diameter 24mm. The strike face & rear finger grips are removable. It also comes with an optional glow in the dark tail switch.

 

As you are going for 'long throw', you might also want to try the 'smooth' reflector. It's a little 'ringy' but gives a bit more distance. I have both & favor the textured but that's 'cos I use it for cqb. This is also why I recommended the TK11, as it's better in 'decorated' domestic situations. Particularly anywhere with gloss white paint on door frames etc.

 

However, this is a slim difference & as said, the olight (you are correct ) has an advantage in a more natural environment. The olight also has a tighter focus with either reflector, so is better for long throw. Not so good for 'flooding' a 10x10 room though.

 

3, I had a real tough time finding a UK stockist & got mine from 'qualityflashlights.co.uk', who turned out to be in Austria!!!!!!!!!!

 

They are so similar to the Fenix products, most stockists will do one or the other, not both.

 

I doubt you will be disappointed.

 

One more thing to consider: I have a Steamlight TLR1. This claims 135 lumens but is slightly brighter than either the TK11 or M20 (Streamlight have always given conservative brightness figures). The beam is also a brighter white., with no significant colour tinge. Not quite as good for long throw as the olight.

 

Loads more money, but due to the battery configuration, very compact. It's meant for a pistol, but my fave for a cqb wep light at present. However, it wont take the 18650 rechargeables.

 

Again, I make the offer for the lens protectors, you don't really want to wait until you smash the original.

 

 

Greg.

[swannie_2006]

Again, I make the offer for the lens protectors, you don't really want to wait until you smash the original.

 

Oh, yeah. That is for sure. I'll take the offer most likely. I had the original lens protector shot to hell in Lewisham but I made a nice replacement one out of face mask mesh. Nevertheless I'd rather protect the lens on this one.

[greg]

Oh, yeah. That is for sure. I'll take the offer most likely. I had the original lens protector shot to hell in Lewisham but I made a nice replacement one out of face mask mesh. Nevertheless I'd rather protect the lens on this one.

No probs. Basically I can make up a shield, or replace the existing lens with a clear material, which will survive anything airsoft can muster.

 

I have tested it point blank with 665fps (.2) & just left a small mark.

 

Let me know when you are ready.

 

 

Greg.

[swannie_2006]

Give me 2 minutes to pack my laptop and I am on my way to you

Yeah, the clear material for the R500 sounds very promising.

[stum99]

Has to be a Surefire 6P, rugged, powerful, upgradeable...use mine for airsoft & on the job

[Adiventure]

No probs. Basically I can make up a shield, or replace the existing lens with a clear material, which will survive anything airsoft can muster.

 

I have tested it point blank with 665fps (.2) & just left a small mark.

 

Let me know when you are ready.

 

 

Greg.

Would one of those be available across the pond? What would they run in 'Murkin money?

 

As a side note about the Olight, for some reason mine seems to have some trouble related to running 18650 batteries. It goes on fine, but as they get lower in charge I lose the highest power of brightness. Not sure if it is the batteries, or the light or what (I've tried disposable cr123as which don't seem to have the problem, but not any other 18650s, if it matters mine are Ultrafire, 2200 Mah). Either way, it is still an excellent light, and the best I could find for the money (besides the aforementioned Fenix).

[swannie_2006]

hey Stum99,

 

Olight is on its way already.

 

Has to be a Surefire 6P, rugged, powerful, upgradeable...use mine for airsoft & on the job

 

[greg]

Has to be a Surefire 6P, rugged, powerful, upgradeable...use mine for airsoft & on the job

Have you ever seen the olight or Fenix we are talking about? In real life, not just on paper?

 

If so, please feel free to enlarge on 'Has to be a Surefire'.

 

If not, check one out.

 

 

Greg.

[galactica]

worth pointing out here that Surefire measure the lumen rating from some distance away, not one millimetre away like certain chinese suppliers might, so don't assume that "250 lumen" on a chinese light is better than a 150 lumen Surefire.

[stum99]

Well, all I can say is that I have been using the Surefire for all of this year and it hasnt let me down either personally or professionally...it does the perfect job in both airsoft and work. I tried changing from the standard 80 lumen bulb to a changeable which claimed up to 200 lumens, but actually wasnt accurate, when put it up next to another 80 lumen surefire and found that the new bulb wasnt what it claimed....

 

 

[swannie_2006]

worth pointing out here that Surefire measure the lumen rating from some distance away, not one millimetre away like certain chinese suppliers might, so don't assume that "250 lumen" on a chinese light is better than a 150 lumen Surefire.

 

hey Galactica,

 

So true. but I have to say my so called 200 lumens chinese led torch is pretty much on par with my 250 lumen RICO tactics gun light. I na CQB environment, at least.

[greg]

Well, all I can say is that I have been using the Surefire for all of this year and it hasnt let me down either personally or professionally...it does the perfect job in both airsoft and work.

& I can say the same.

 

In fact, I have used Surefires, trouble free for many years. See my post #10.

 

But, as per my post #10, this was before companies like olight & Fenix were around.

 

I can now happily say that I've used* an olight Warrior M20 R2, for about 8 months etc. etc. Granted, this is not a full year, only time will tell. I agree the quality is more maglight than surefire but this is pretty good.

 

Here's a thing, the rechargeable 18650 has never run out during a game day. With my 6p, (p61 bulb assembly) I'd often go through 3 sets of CR123a's. Two things here: the first is the obvious economy, the second is less obvious but more important: Having the batteries fail at a critical moment, is not fun in airsoft, even less fun, in real life!

 

Here's another, various power levels, two of which are brighter than the 6p. This gives you choice. Do I want to see where I'm going/what I'm doing, without giving away my position or do I want to throw a beam on to my target 70m away? Yesterday (at the mall) a guy was trying to work out how bright his genuine Surefire X300 was. We shone it onto a white wall at 20m next to my olight warrior M20 R2 (max 250 lumens). They looked about the same, possibly the Surefire was a little brighter. So we guessed it was pretty good, possibly over 250 lumen? Then I pointed out that the olight was on medium power, a claimed 90 lumen. Turning the olight onto full, completely washed out the £250 surefire, which I found out this morning is rated as 110 lumens.

 

A strobe? On a site that allows this, among folk it wont affect (yes, I'm aware of epilepsy etc.) this allows distraction, adding to the atmosphere & effectiveness of your game play.

 

Don't forget accessories. Olight do a remote pressure switch for under a tenner. How much is a Surefire one?

 

So, for a similar cost, with very little sacrifice to quality, you can get, a much more flexible light source, that IS brighter, lasts longer & is cheaper to run. Olight now offer the M20 as a special edition titanium bodied 500 lumen model. At £210 I wouldn't suggest it's worth having, for that price, you could have an ally bodied 100 lumen Surefire L2 . However, it does show what the future holds. It's on my Christmas list.

 

Galactica is right, Lumen figures can often be misleading, but shining two lights onto different surfaces at different ranges will give you the answer as to which is more preferable. I have done this & it is why I can give the details I have in post #10. This info is not figures or roumers, it comes from personal observation.

 

So, Surefires all round then?

 

Any one, like me, having bought a Surefire, has bought into a great bit of kit. However, be aware, that unlike a few years back, there is now a lot of alternatives & some offer 'more', than current surefire models.

 

Once apon-a-time the only choice you had to make, was, 'which Surefire?'. I'm afraid it ain't that simple now.

 

Check it out, you are fooling yourself if you think Surefire still rule the roost. Products from companies like Jetbeam, Nightcore, Olight & Fenix(to name a few), are not just cheap, Chinese copies.

 

 

Greg.

 

* When I say used, I mean used & abused. It's been bounced off concrete floors, trodden on, hosed, dropped down staircases (concrete & metal fire escapes, oops butter fingers ) regularly covered in Epsom's finest mud, smacked into & scraped along brick walls, exposed to the damp & left out, over night in the worst rain storm this year. On one occasion it was accidentally left switched on (full power) for about an hour during lunch . It didn't get particularly hot & still made the day without a battery change.

 

No significant signs of damage or failing performance yet.

[greg]

hey Stum99,

 

Olight is on its way already.

Did you get the Christmas special offer? M20R2 & Titanuim, ITP A3 EOS, (a 1xAAA, 80 lum max, key ringer), all for £70!

 

OMG, that's £15 lass than the 80 lumen, '6P LED'. (£85 at Heinnie Haynes)

 

I am so gutted I already have one & don't need another.

 

 

Greg.