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Due to recent activity in a section not to be named, in which a mod, in my view violated two rules in one post, while also locking and banning other members, who criticized said mod. I wont name names, or copy-paste the post.

 

This thread is not meant to "call out" anyone. Instead to bring it to attention that mod's do not operate on a consistent basis. While some call out others ignore etc. Furthermore at times, more often than not personal bias and other factors figure into their actions. I do not meant to say individual mods are choosy, but that they differ too much from one another. For example, I'm my experience Hoppum and Misfit both operate in the same manner for each situation, but do not necessarily do so in the same manner as one another, if that makes sense. (Note I am not criticizing either mod here, misfit im sure knows this hence our recent pm exchange.)

 

Often i have been told by more than one mod, if I dont like the scenery , leave, I happen to quite enjoy this forum, as imo its the only one worth bothering with as far as airsoft is concerned. Now, on that note, it becomes irritating when rules are enforced, or not enforced, to different degrees and to different views constantly. Rules are meant to be used and followed, and on the same basis by all.

 

Just my ten cents, I end with the request that the RS thread be reopened as it never got off topic in the first place.

 

Respectfully

Reaper

 

P.S. Out of respect, dont delete this, as the members make the site, not the admins or mods, and I believe that I am not the only one who shares my opinions on the matter.

 

 

 

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Grow up?

 

 

The mos do a hard job and arent paid afaik. they get a lot of stick for it to, but the vast majority of the time they steer the forum away from the dark places it could end up.

 

If you have a problem with an individual mod, look at yourself through their typing fingers first, just to make sure they are or are not out of line.

 

I have deep respect for mods so when i get an odd slap on the wrist that i dont understand i investigate it myself and let it drop as normally the mods are right, if a little heavy handed on rare occasions.

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sigh....

 

just forget it, mods delete.

 

I tired to make a legitimate point, respectfully, without calling out certain individuals, and yes i do put myself in others shoes before I criticize. Yet I end up being called childish.

 

Sorry for any disrespect, I meant this in a constructive manner, yet i get non constructive criticism.

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I'm leaving this open so other people can post their thoughts.

 

One thing I'll say is that we don't get a moderating manual that tells us what to do in every situation, but we do try our best to handle things consistently.

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I must admit, I wouldn't want this thread deleted, reaper16.

 

It is very difficult to act in exactly the same manner as the other moderators, as after all moderators are human and some will see one rule as very important while another may not. Generally whenever I take action that isn't the standard "back on topic" post, I ask another moderator if they agree with the course of action. I am even more careful to do this if I receive a complaint from a user about an action I have taken. If the other moderators disagree, I'm having to remove the warn and apologise.

 

Another factor you must take into account is that moderators largely deal with the same things every day, for example having to move their tenth thread to the correct forum, or having to tell the 5th member of the day not to insult other users. Generally by the time I've dealt with multiple people breaking the same rule simply because they were too lazy to read the rules or forum stickies, I'm rather aggravated. ;) (Although I am careful not to allow this to influence my moderating decisions.)

 

As to the incident you are referring to, I personally dislike it when someone argues with my actions in the thread, it only further derails the thread and gives me images of kids being naughty in class in an attempt to look cool. The best course of action for members to take if they don't like a decision a moderator has made is to PM them. Then, if they do not feel the matter has been resolved to their satisfaction, they can PM Marlowe or another mod.

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We try our best to be consistent but we are-generally speaking- human. Very rarely are any two given situations the same, so it follows the appropriate level of response will not be the same, for example we take into account previous action so something that could be viewed as minor on its own can result in a suspension if its the last in a line of infractions by th same member.

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As stated, mod's don't get paid, and they do a decent job - They're all only human, and as such, they're all going to make the occasional fufu. Everyone's affected by their opinion of people, and the only way you're going to get standardised moderation is by paying people money, and writing them a detailed manual.

 

It's a free forum, full of craploads of useful information, nice people, and it's very well run from what i see. 98% of the time everyone gets along, but there's always going to be arguements and the like.. It's a minor nuisance. Kind of like Megan Fox messing with your sh:t, and then punching you in the nose. It's a bit of an annoyance, but you're still gonna come back for more.

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I explained this better to elrey in a PM, in my first writing of the post I realized it was too immature for the point i intended. This largely stems from the conduct of one moderator that I found not upstanding to the large majority of you.

 

So, After thinking about it, i determined my post was the best way to say; at the time, in hindsight i could have worded it better, but I'll take it over looking slightly immature (or very for that matter) in my first post.

 

As i said, I dont meant this as a "calling out", but constructive thought. By and large you do operate in the same manner with moving threads and getting on topic. I meant that at times personal bias, and personal feelings come into play. Which would fall under differing methods. Once again the majority of mods are not the issue. I simply had to find a method with which to express my concern over the issue with, while not being a ***hat at the same time.

 

Sincerely

Reaper

 

Edit, just noticed the Megan Fox comment, epic.

Edited by reaper16
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I know exactly what you talking about reaper, and while it seems most of the time any confusion/conflict can be settled with reasoned discussion this most recent case has got me real real angry. I should preface this with the fact that it all pertains to that... Mod mistake and not to the general moderation community issue that you arise in your first post about personal differences.

 

2 Members were suspended for calling a mod on what is clearly unprofessional conduct including avoiding the swear filter on the site, (which is against the rules, and one of the primary things mods help control. SEEN HERE there are more examples, but when you just search "Swear Filter" about 1/4 are results talking about the swear filter, so I thought I would narrow it to relavant things by adding +

swaer Filter" +"Mod edit")

 

But hey, it's ok for mods to make mistakes because they are volunteers and don't get paid, right? Actually I think its ok that thye make mistakes regardless of pay or how difficult the job actually is, it issue is the acknowledgment of said mistakes.

 

Misfit and I had a run in a little while back, but in the end after some heated words were said we got everything all worked out.

 

In this most recent case however Ive found my voice shut out by the arnies staff, as its pretty obvious that what went on is not in the normal line of moderation, but instead came off as an over zealous suspension for no reason. Even as I conversed with the at this point thinly veiled moderator it became clear that his reason cited for the suspension which was "I might have been willing to retract that comment if I'd been PMed politely. As it was, people decide they've got to ignore my request and continue to whine about it in that thread.

THAT was what the suspensions are in place for."

 

No one ignored his request, in fact after one member called him on the insult/violation of the swear filter, the member tried to get the thread back on topic, instead of as the moderator suggests, continuing down a off topic and now unacceptable path.

 

And now? Now the mistake is not acknowledged, and people say, "Grow up? The mos do a hard job and arent paid afaik. they get a lot of stick for it to, but the vast majority of the time they steer the forum away from the dark places it could end up."

 

and "One thing I'll say is that we don't get a moderating manual that tells us what to do in every situation, but we do try our best to handle things consistently."

 

or even "We try our best to be consistent but we are-generally speaking- human. Very rarely are any two given situations the same, so it follows the appropriate level of response will not be the same, for example we take into account previous action so something that could be viewed as minor on its own can result in a suspension if its the last in a line of infractions by the same member."

 

I see how these statements are a defense of mistakes, as mistakes are part of human nature, but I don't see how they justify staying the course of those mistakes. And I see to how they assert the fact that sometimes things gow a little deeper then the surface. In this most recent case, however, there was no infraction by the member. He didn't tell the mod to go stuff himself and then continue on with the off topic discussion that the mod said wasn't allowed, he was on track with the thread.

 

 

I want to say after all that though, I don't have any problem with the moderation team in general, I recognize that not one can be right 100% of the time, and thats just fine. I just want the mod to instead of saying "I stand by my statements" say "I made an error, and I would like to fix it." Overall this is a really great forum, and I know that people here are reasonable enough to see the point I'm making, and at least have the decency of a reasoned response, as opposed to the classic 'shut up or leave' response. I say what I say only because I care about this community, and the only want to make it better is to stand up and speak my mind.

 

Signed-

MCXL

Edited by MCXL
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I know exactly what you talking about reaper, and while it seems most of the time any confusion/conflict can be settled with reasoned discussion this most recent case has got me real real angry. I should preface this with the fact that it all pertains to that... Mod mistake and not to the general moderation community issue that you arise in your first post about personal differences.

 

2 Members were suspended for calling a mod on what is clearly unprofessional conduct including avoiding the swear filter on the site, (which is against the rules, and one of the primary things mods help control. SEEN HERE there are more examples, but when you just search "Swear Filter" about 1/4 are results talking about the swear filter, so I thought I would narrow it to relavant things by adding +

swaer Filter" +"Mod edit")

 

But hey, it's ok for mods to make mistakes because they are volunteers and don't get paid, right? Actually I think its ok that thye make mistakes regardless of pay or how difficult the job actually is, it issue is the acknowledgment of said mistakes.

 

Misfit and I had a run in a little while back, but in the end after some heated words were said we got everything all worked out.

 

In this most recent case however Ive found my voice shut out by the arnies staff, as its pretty obvious that what went on is not in the normal line of moderation, but instead came off as an over zealous suspension for no reason. Even as I conversed with the at this point thinly veiled moderator it became clear that his reason cited for the suspension which was "I might have been willing to retract that comment if I'd been PMed politely. As it was, people decide they've got to ignore my request and continue to whine about it in that thread.

THAT was what the suspensions are in place for."

 

No one ignored his request, in fact after one member called him on the insult/violation of the swear filter, the member tried to get the thread back on topic, instead of as the moderator suggests, continuing down a off topic and now unacceptable path.

 

And now? Now the mistake is not acknowledged, and people say, "Grow up? The mos do a hard job and arent paid afaik. they get a lot of stick for it to, but the vast majority of the time they steer the forum away from the dark places it could end up."

 

and "One thing I'll say is that we don't get a moderating manual that tells us what to do in every situation, but we do try our best to handle things consistently."

 

or even "We try our best to be consistent but we are-generally speaking- human. Very rarely are any two given situations the same, so it follows the appropriate level of response will not be the same, for example we take into account previous action so something that could be viewed as minor on its own can result in a suspension if its the last in a line of infractions by the same member."

 

I see how these statements are a defense of mistakes, as mistakes are part of human nature, but I don't see how they justify staying the course of those mistakes. And I see to how they assert the fact that sometimes things gow a little deeper then the surface. In this most recent case, however, there was no infraction by the member. He didn't tell the mod to go stuff himself and then continue on with the off topic discussion that the mod said wasn't allowed, he was on track with the thread.

 

 

I want to say after all that though, I don't have any problem with the moderation team in general, I recognize that not one can be right 100% of the time, and thats just fine. I just want the mod to instead of saying "I stand by my statements" say "I made an error, and I would like to fix it." Overall this is a really great forum, and I know that people here are reasonable enough to see the point I'm making, and at least have the decency of a reasoned response, as opposed to the classic 'shut up or leave' response. I say what I say only because I care about this community, and the only want to make it better is to stand up and speak my mind.

 

Signed-

MCXL

 

 

Yes, thats what my post should have said, but I could not at the time find an appropriate way to express those views.

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As a mod of the sniper haven I have to admit I play a very small role and generally have very little call to have to fall back on any moderation powers.

I've wagged my fingers at a few people in the past, but I can count those incidents on one hand.

So on the whole, the people in this forum are generally well behaved and should take some personal satisfaction from that.

 

We are human (just), and we all approach situations in different ways.

As a former Police Constable, I am well aware that situations can be dealt with in a myriad of ways whilst still remaining within a certain framework. You will always get this.

Personalities clash, this cannot be avoided. It's regrettable, don't get me wrong, and the position of a Moderator should ultimately be able to rise above any personal issues, but it does happen.

I try to moderate using the old oath of allegiance (to the Queen, for those non UK residents), which is to execute my duty without fear or favour, malice or ill-will.

Hopefully no-one has issue with my 'style'. It's not the harshest in the world, and I think the odd private comment of "look here old chap, pull your socks up" is sometimes more effective than getting into a slanging match in a thread.

 

In terms of the moderator saying 'sorry, I was wrong'.....

 

Thats a difficult one. In your eyes their judgement may be wrong, mainly because the opinion differs to yours, but in their eyes it may be correct. I know when I 'think' I am correct in my judgement, not even a freight train will get me to renege on that judgement. Stubborn mule that I am.

If I offend someone inadvertently, then I do apologise because that is never my intention, but if I 'tell someone off' then I do that because I think it is the right course of action and you'd be hard pressed to get me to reverse that decision.

 

Anyway, there are always levels of moderation, and if you have an issue with one of them, there are more to approach to address your concerns to.

 

But, on the whole, the moderators here are certainly better behaved than the pack mentality of some mod groups on other forums.

 

And certainly do not fear voicing your opinion.

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In the instance that you're talking about, it was quite obvious that there was a group of members who were serving little purpose besides mouthing off to that mod. While I feel that his initial reaction maybe have been rather harsh, it did have a purpose. Hes always been kind of a hardass. Thats just his way. Like elrey said, theres no manual for how they should act. They all have to deal with situations as they see fit. Also, since you are making reference to a single example, and keep saying you're just talking about this one mod and not the others, you clearly are calling him out. t doesn't matter if you "hide" his name

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...

I see how these statements are a defense of mistakes, as mistakes are part of human nature, but I don't see how they justify staying the course of those mistakes. And I see to how they assert the fact that sometimes things gow a little deeper then the surface. In this most recent case, however, there was no infraction by the member. He didn't tell the mod to go stuff himself and then continue on with the off topic discussion that the mod said wasn't allowed, he was on track with the thread.

...

 

A very well worded post, but you don't seem to realise that the mods aren't a democractic group that you've voted into power.

 

To have taken regular members' opinions as gospel as to how the forum is run isn't very fair, and hints towards an 'Us versus Them' attitude. No one is defending anyone, no one is saying "shut up or leave" - simply get used to it, because the rest of us have and that's why we're still here!

 

If you aren't getting what you want out of this forum, then you aren't getting behind Bill Clinton's proverbial office desk often enough.

 

Bum kissing is the way forward in dictatorships.

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- Also, since you are making reference to a single example, and keep saying you're just talking about this one mod and not the others, you clearly are calling him out. -

 

Yea your right, I wasn't really thinking about that when I made the post because I had been up for like 20 hours. So I take it back, sort of. I AM trying to call him out, because his responses on the subject via PM were irrational and, how shall i put this, full of self entitlement.

 

EDIT: Oh and I meant to respond to this,

But, on the whole, the moderators here are certainly better behaved than the pack mentality of some mod groups on other forums.

 

This is certainly a glass half full approach to the community. Yes the moderators are better then some other sites, but what does that have to do with this discussion. Saying "At least its not (insert worse site)" doesn't improve the situation. This is a topic on a very specific subject and saying its better then something feels like a cop out rather then addressing what I am saying. I know you didn't necessarily mean it to come off that way, but it does.

 

It's just like the teenager, after he comes home drunk going "Well at least I'm not on crack!" Sounds like avoidance to me.

 

Personalities clash, this cannot be avoided. It's regrettable, don't get me wrong, and the position of a Moderator should ultimately be able to rise above any personal issues, but it does happen.

I try to moderate using the old oath of allegiance (to the Queen, for those non UK residents), which is to execute my duty without fear or favour, malice or ill-will.

 

This is the sentiment I look for in all moderators, and it seems to be lacking in this case. I realize that they arent elected officials, but in the end doesn't that mean they are held to a higher standard? They have no term, no system, other then us the community. If we don't like them (or enough of us) isn't that enough to change things? Or is this system so much of a dictatorship that it really is a us and them mentality? That It is the moderators site, and we are just guests here, not the community that makes the site as I believe?

 

Maybe thats what some of the staff think, maybe thats what some of the members think, I don't know. What I do know is that it is about as wrong of an idea as one could have. Without all of the members here what would arnies be? AirsoftNews.eu probably.

Edited by MCXL
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if people were nice all the time like i am then this would not be a problem you goddamn ##### pork luncheon meat #####

 

*fruitcage*.

 

I dont even know what those blanks are supposed to mean lol. As t is though, its just a few people complaining. It hardly like theres a mob of members calling for his head.

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A very well worded post, but you don't seem to realise that the mods aren't a democractic group that you've voted into power.

 

To have taken regular members' opinions as gospel as to how the forum is run isn't very fair, and hints towards an 'Us versus Them' attitude. No one is defending anyone, no one is saying "shut up or leave" - simply get used to it, because the rest of us have and that's why we're still here!

 

If you aren't getting what you want out of this forum, then you aren't getting behind Bill Clinton's proverbial office desk often enough.

 

Bum kissing is the way forward in dictatorships.

 

I think there's two things to take here:

 

- No one thinks that the moderators are democratically elected.

- That doesn't make them or their decisions beyond criticism by the forum population. In fact this area of the site solicits that criticism. Community bureaucrats like the admins and mods are there to ensure the smooth running of the forum. If they aren't following the rules or enforcing them unequally or using punishments inappropriately in order to squash dissent then there is an issue there which should be spoken about.

 

The thing I find here is that most of the admin team are open to suggestions, see for example this thread:

http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/inde...p;#entry2197293

 

Whilst you'll see the first response is very defensive it actually turned out what I was asking about wasn't that hard to do at all. I dunno what effect that had as my warning points were removed shortly afterwards and I haven't been awarded any subsequently but I hope it had a positive effect (although I think it ended up getting one of the mods, Anteater, banned as well!).

 

MCXL nails it, what people aren't asking for is perfection in mods, it's accountability when the inevitable mistakes are made. Suspending people who express dissent or displeasure at the way something is dealt with is the very opposite of fostering the sort of atmosphere where the mods are approachable over these issues. Dictatorships don't necessarily need to be authoritarian or unaccountable.

 

I fully agree with what Stealth was actually trying to do in preventing the Real Steel thread descending into another epic gun control thread. I just don't think he handled the aftermath with aplomb.

 

Edit: I actually think it's more childish if we keep avoiding talking about the incident in question as we are all perfectly aware of it, hence the naming names.

Edited by Chimpy
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Yea I agree Chimpy, it is kind of childish to just dance around the issue that I think we all know we are talking about, so lets just talk about it.

 

StealthBomber's conduct.

 

If you look at the link Chimpy posted you can see that Stealth comes in again with a non constructive post, basically trying to attack Chimpy's reasonable request. Then Marlowe stopped it before it could get to the same point that the RS discussion thread did where suspensions were handed out because someone pointed out that 'Wow, that was professional.'

 

I fully agree with what Stealth was actually trying to do in preventing the Real Steel thread descending into another epic gun control thread. I just don't think he handled the aftermath with aplomb.

 

And thats the point I am making here, its not that he came in and mandated that the discussion of "Guns R Good vs Guns R bad" or "It waz murder" and "It wasn't Murder" thats just fine. But BOTH the members who got suspended got suspended for calling stealth unprofessional, NOT VIOLATING HIS MOD DECREE OF NO MORE POLITICS/LAW.

 

Since we are being more candid I will just copy and paste Stealth's post into here.

 

QUOTE (babybackribs @ Nov 15 2009, 11:32 PM) *

[stuff]

 

Dude, stop trolling and go back to being Titleists b1tch.

 

Seriously.

 

*EDIT*

Just to be clear, that means packing in all the pro/anti gun political nonsense and letting this thread get back to it's intended purpose.

 

OK lets examine this. His original post, as indicated by his clearly marked EDIT line was "Dude, stop trolling and go back to being Titleists b1tch. Seriously."

 

Only later (maybe a minute maybe an hour I dont know) did he come back in and say something mod like.

 

HOW IS THIS ACCEPTABLE CONDUCT FOR A MODERATOR IN ANY WAY. EVER?

 

Now the suspensions come in for, and Ill just use stealths post again, I dont even need to quote the originals because he did that work for me.

 

QUOTE (whomper @ Nov 16 2009, 04:41 PM) *

I'm glad to see that mods here are held to a high standard and project a very professional attitude.

rolleyes.gif

 

Take a week, no - a fortnight, off for that.

 

Not in the mood.

 

*EDIT*

Incidentally, in case I didn't make myself COMPLETELY clear, this thread is not for whining about gun laws.

I say that on the basis that we can all find examples of where other countries, as well as our own, have done stupid things related to guns.

Debating it gets us nowhere and creates bad feeling.

 

This thread is for those who wish to talk firearms while, at the same time, not wanting to actually do so on a forum about real firearms.

 

QUOTE (Titleist @ Nov 16 2009, 04:46 PM) *

Wow, that was professional.

 

 

Oops, didn't see that.

 

Join Whomper in taking some time out.

You never know, you might use the time to find a real-steel forum you prefer.

 

SO he suspended 2 people for 2 weeks each based on the fact quite simply that they called Stealth on being completely and totally unprofessional?

 

I honestly feel that there is no counter argument, all the facts are there, and its as plain as day that this was an obviously incorrect decision from the outset.

 

Lets go back to the Chef's pledge thing, and compare it to stealth's actions in this instance.

 

"To execute my duty without fear or favor, malice or ill-will."

 

Fear; He gets the first one right, he obviously has no fear.

 

Favor: I cant speak to his motivations, but from the interaction Ive had with him on the matter it has become apparent that he has a severe predisposition toward the RS discussion thread, and Titleist in particular.

 

Malice Or ill will: Well if the suspension of us regular forum folk for questioning the moderators soundness of professionalism alone is not an act of malice or ill will I don't know what is.

 

And then on top of it all, Stealthbomber had the sheer audacity to tell me that the suspensions were, as I quoted above,

 

"I might have been willing to retract that comment if I'd been PMed politely. As it was, people decide they've got to ignore my request and continue to whine about it in that thread. THAT was what the suspensions are in place for."

 

I don't see that, not in the way he describes it at the very least. In fact, Titleist attempted to return the topic to its track with more RS pictures, as that is the primary purpose of that thread, and the other suspended member, did in fact go on about % in gun crime. However the damning evidence against stealth is that he quotes the questioning of his professionalism, NOT the continuance of the discussion.

 

On top of that the thing that stands out as the MOST ridicules to me is "I might have been willing to retract that comment if I'd been PMed politely."

 

Really? We have to PM moderators to make sure that they don't lash out at forum members AND skirt the swear filter? Because When I PMed stealth about it he basically insulted me with the usual comments like,

 

"Yawn."

 

"People need to learn to STFU and do what the moderating team ask. We're very easy going and because of that people assume they can debate and question every decision. Wrong!"

 

Or one of my favorites

 

"Pretty much everybody who posts in the RS discussion thread is too busy humping Titleists leg to do anything else. Dunno why so many people got upset because I said something which is entirely true."

 

It's not that you said something that rings true Stealthbomber, it's that you are a moderator, and breaking the rules and insulting members is not acceptable conduct. You don't need a, 'moderating manual' to know that.

 

That's just my opinion though, and maybe I am alone in it, but I doubt it.

Edited by MCXL
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SO he suspended 2 people for 2 weeks each based on the fact quite simply that they called Stealth on being completely and totally unprofessional?

 

In the thread, which just continues to derail it. Titliest didn't try to get the thread back on topic, he tried to disguise his attempt at derailing the thread further so that he would have an excuse to complain.

 

As an example of other moderators acting in a way similar to Stealth's in such a situation, I recently gave you a warning and temporarily locked a thread as you refused to PM me rather than derail a thread.

 

When you complain about a single action against a user being apparently over the top, you must remember that you do not have access to that user's warn panel and may not be aware of their previous behaviour.

Edited by Misfit
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This is certainly a glass half full approach to the community. Yes the moderators are better then some other sites, but what does that have to do with this discussion. Saying "At least its not (insert worse site)" doesn't improve the situation. This is a topic on a very specific subject and saying its better then something feels like a cop out rather then addressing what I am saying. I know you didn't necessarily mean it to come off that way, but it does.

 

It's just like the teenager, after he comes home drunk going "Well at least I'm not on crack!" Sounds like avoidance to me.

 

It was no way intended to be a glass half full avoidance. I was merely pointing out that you can do 'A LOT WORSE' elsewhere. Like all things, we as people have the option to vote with our feet, hence why I personally do not inhabit another certain forum.

 

It is not a perfect world by any means and the addage of 'if you don't like it, go elsewhere' is a rather bad bastardisation of the individuals ability to choose a course of action for themselves. I am well aware that it's taken as a very negative comment, but the meaning of it is certainly very valid.

 

Favor

Dude.... this is a British Forum! hehehehe, yes, yes, yes, I know you spell things differently on your side of the pond. Let's not argue somantics (might not be the correct usage of the word, but you get my drift). Ahloominum I ask you.....

 

Now I cannot condone such a course of conduct, it's not my style. I'll grant you Moderators have to appear to be whiter than white (in a 'clean' sense, don't go misconstruing that comment into something its not...) and above reproach.

 

There should be a system of addressing these issues..... and indeed you are making good usage of that very system by posting your comments here. So you see, the process can and does work. Nobody is hiding anything and it's certainly not the 'pack mentality' I spoke of before.

 

Nobody is coming to your house with a black sack and some large batons (well, not yet anyway! but best keep any eye out).

 

What the eventual outcome will be is far from me to speculate upon. I am merely a pawn and do not consider the functions of higher beings (it makes my brain hurt).

 

But one thing I will say is, whilst Stealth is brash, ubrupt, cynical, opinionated, hot tempered and dare I say ugly.....

He's a good honest bloke, he's done a lot in this forum and is a worthy addition. It would be a more monochrome place without him.

 

I don't like Marmite..... but apparently some people do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Now I cannot condone such a course of conduct, it's not my style. I'll grant you Moderators have to appear to be whiter than white (in a 'clean' sense, don't go misconstruing that comment into something its not...) and above reproach.

 

There should be a system of addressing these issues..... and indeed you are making good usage of that very system by posting your comments here. So you see, the process can and does work. Nobody is hiding anything and it's certainly not the 'pack mentality' I spoke of before.

 

Nobody is coming to your house with a black sack and some large batons (well, not yet anyway! but best keep any eye out).

 

What the eventual outcome will be is far from me to speculate upon. I am merely a pawn and do not consider the functions of higher beings (it makes my brain hurt).

 

Well hopefully something positive will result rather than the current rather defensive attitude being displayed by some here (not yourself) to what seems like reasonable and constructive criticism.

 

But one thing I will say is, whilst Stealth is brash, ubrupt, cynical, opinionated, hot tempered and dare I say ugly.....

He's a good honest bloke, he's done a lot in this forum and is a worthy addition. It would be a more monochrome place without him.

 

As someone whose personality regularly clashes with Stealths and who thinks he has his own set of failings as a moderator I fully agree that he is an essential part of the forum and has done a lot for it. That doesn't make him immune from criticism for his actions though.

 

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In the thread, which just continues to derail it. Titliest didn't try to get the thread back on topic, he tried to disguise his attempt at derailing the thread further so that he would have an excuse to complain.

 

Sorry, that's a real pile of suitcases, I can quote his post again, if you like. He didn't derail further. Like I said the other guy after his first post (which was the one quoted by stealth), went on about % shenanigans, so there I understand it, BUT Titleist did no such thing.

 

As an example of other moderators acting in a way similar to Stealth's in such a situation, I recently gave you a warning and temporarily locked a thread as you refused to PM me rather than derail a thread.

 

And because of that I thought I would try the PM approach. As I expected before, all I got was a hostile response telling me to stuff it. I think matters like this need to be dealt with publicly, though not necessarily in the original thread as I tried last time. No offense, but you also acted unprofessionally by calling me, I believe it was a word for lady parts. Then another mod came in and changed it to baby. However by relay of Elray i heard that you "Really didn't mean to say that" it all worked out.

 

When you complain about a single action against a user being apparently over the top, you must remember that you do not have access to that user's warn panel and may not be aware of their previous behavior.

 

I am aware of Titleists previous behavior, and as I keep saying, that doesn't matter. Saying that you are judging posts based on previous posts is stupid though. If I post a sarky comment somewhere does that make this post less valid? Maybe to you on a personal level, but on a pure level, no.

 

Remember just because it is the pot calling the kettle black, doesn't mean the kettle isn't black. Titleist was a bad moderator from what I know, but in his case he wasnt aboe the rules and he lost his mod status because of it. Why should this be any different?

 

Calling someone guilty because they were guilty in the past is one of the biggest reasons innocent people end up in jail.

 

Ill respond to Chef in a sec here.

 

EDIT: MAN THREAD IS CRUSING! I am gonna move my edit post to a new one.

Edited by MCXL
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That doesn't make him immune from criticism for his actions though.

 

I couldn't agree more, and this should apply to everyone who inhabits the place. Me included (but feel free to grant me total immunity if it makes you feel better!)

 

Anyway, off to pick my Mac up, this vista based pile of donkey droppings of a Laptop is driving me batshit by the minute!

 

Edit.... ignore that... They've just called to say it's not ready yet. So if you hear some loud banging noises, don't panic it's just my head on the keyboard!

Edited by The Chef
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And because of that I thought I would try the PM approach. As I expected before, all I got was a hostile response telling me to stuff it. I think matters like this need to be dealt with publicly, though not necessarily in the original thread as I tried last time. No offense, but you also acted unprofessionally by calling me, I believe it was a word for lady parts. Then another mod came in and changed it to baby. However by relay of Elray i heard that you "Really didn't mean to say that" it all worked out.

 

Yes, indeed I did call you a word I really shouldn't have.

 

I had another moderator edit the post within a few minutes and asked elrey to relay an apology to you, which I hope you got. If you did not, I apologise once again for acting in such a manner, I was rather ill tempered that day.

 

I am aware of Titleists previous behavior, and as I keep saying, that doesn't matter. Saying that you are judging posts based on previous posts is stupid though. If I post a sarky comment somewhere does that make this post less valid? Maybe to you on a personal level, but on a pure level, no.

 

Calling someone guilty because they were guilty in the past is one of the biggest reasons innocent people end up in jail.

 

Ill respond to Chef in a sec here.

 

I'm not quite sure how a members previous behaviour doesn't matter.

 

On a forum we generally don't ban people outright for one single action, we moderators attempt to direct them into becoming productive members that follow the rules. If a member continuously behaves like a muppet and has a history of acting like one, he or she may eventually be banned.

 

As for quoting Titliest's post again, allow me:

 

Wow, that was professional.

 

I don't have any bikini girls, but here's some hip firing:

 

4105281928_de7a6be058_b.jpg

 

Posting "Wow, that was professional." is not an attempt to get the thread back on topic.

 

Well hopefully something positive will result rather than the current rather defensive attitude being displayed by some here (not yourself) to what seems like reasonable and constructive criticism.

 

I hope I'm not coming across as defensive, Chimpy. I'm simply trying to provide the moderators viewpoint and perspective in a situation such as this, rather than simply the members which has been portrayed quite adequately. ;)

Edited by Misfit
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