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ARES Tavor TAR-21 - First Impressions


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At first my Pmags wouldn't lock in, but after working them a little they did after a good slap. I think it may just be due to the gun being brand new.

 

My gun was made December 8th 2009, and doesnt seem to have the barrel wobble other people talked about. When looking in, it looks like the same method they used on the DE version is there. However the same issue with the mag release is there. You would think they would have fixed that in the newer batches. Otherwise Im extremely impressed with this gun. After having the TSI....this is a dream!

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At first my Pmags wouldn't lock in, but after working them a little they did after a good slap. I think it may just be due to the gun being brand new.

 

My gun was made December 8th 2009, and doesnt seem to have the barrel wobble other people talked about. When looking in, it looks like the same method they used on the DE version is there. However the same issue with the mag release is there. You would think they would have fixed that in the newer batches. Otherwise Im extremely impressed with this gun. After having the TSI....this is a dream!

 

 

I found that the little catch that holds the BBs in the magzine on my Pmags was what was preventing it from locking in every time. a quick shaping with a file and they locked in no problems. more of a mag issue, combined with the shape of the feed tube on the tavor really.

 

I dont seem to have the barrel wobble issue either and mine is one of the early ones too. :)

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My gun does have some barrel wobble, but i have to use force for it to move. AKA. Moving the gun around, the barrel stays still. Applying pressure moves the barrel. I think i am going to sort that out as it might affect long term accuracy and such.

 

Yeah, same here, no wobble although if I rest the canon against a wall when aiming it's not as rigid anymore. Isn't the fix a pain though ? Looks like I'll have to open the whole gun to add some wrap at the holding point

 

I found that the little catch that holds the BBs in the magzine on my Pmags was what was preventing it from locking in every time. a quick shaping with a file and they locked in no problems. more of a mag issue, combined with the shape of the feed tube on the tavor really.

 

I dont seem to have the barrel wobble issue either and mine is one of the early ones too. :)

 

I'm interested in your solution here. Would you mind telling me again which part of the PMAG did you file ? The catch that holds the BB is retracts, so I'm not sure I understood what you meant there.

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I don't own a CTAR (black), but comparing this video and what I heard to my TAR (DE), it looks like they changed that. With a PMAG in, I have no wobble whatsoever, 0, nada, nothing. With an ACM one, by shaking hard I guess I could make the mag move a little, but still far from the video. I'll check again when I get home.

 

I'm not persuaded they've made any external changes for the DE TAR - I think it all comes down to tolerances. It's the same with the barrel flex (I'm not going to call it wobble, as it isn't wobble on mine).

 

Individuals are reporting different things about their units or what they observe in others'. Some have barrel flex, some don't. Some have tight mag wells, some don't - regardless of whether it's a TAR or a CTAR.

Edited by The Reptile House
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Yeah, same here, no wobble although if I rest the canon against a wall when aiming it's not as rigid anymore. Isn't the fix a pain though ? Looks like I'll have to open the whole gun to add some wrap at the holding point

 

 

 

I'm interested in your solution here. Would you mind telling me again which part of the PMAG did you file ? The catch that holds the BB is retracts, so I'm not sure I understood what you meant there.

 

yep thats the part, it has a slope on it so that it retracts when its inserted into the feedtube of the rifle itself. the slope is a little flat at the first point of contact with the feedtube and you just need to smooth it down so that when its inserted, the feed tube pushes it back easier. hope thats a little more understandable.,:)

 

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yep thats the part, it has a slope on it so that it retracts when its inserted into the feedtube of the rifle itself. the slope is a little flat at the first point of contact with the feedtube and you just need to smooth it down so that when its inserted, the feed tube pushes it back easier. hope thats a little more understandable., :)

 

Understood, and I'll check that ! Thanks for the tip ! :D

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I'm not persuaded they've made any external changes for the DE TAR

Nonsense! The DE Tavor has a longer barrel and rails! :D Joking aside, I would think so too, but I seem to be finding users with different experiences with aspects of the CTAR and TAR, so I wanted to see if they had a difference or if it was all luck.

 

yep thats the part, it has a slope on it so that it retracts when its inserted into the feedtube of the rifle itself. the slope is a little flat at the first point of contact with the feedtube and you just need to smooth it down so that when its inserted, the feed tube pushes it back easier. hope thats a little more understandable., :)

This took a second for me, but you're talking about the BB catch that prevents BBs from flying out of your mag at anytime it pleases, right?

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Nonsense! The DE Tavor has a longer barrel and rails! :D Joking aside, I would think so too, but I seem to be finding users with different experiences with aspects of the CTAR and TAR, so I wanted to see if they had a difference or if it was all luck.

 

You got me there :D

 

I guess it could be possible they've changed the moulds. Would seem costly, though. If they have, I guess 50% of the DE users I've seen have been unlucky.

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Guess what… my motor died.

I had to put an ICS Turbo 3000 borrowed from my AKS74U. It Works fine, but is too fast. Now shoots 2 rounds in semi :huh:

I'm going to test ROF tomorrow.

 

Also I replaced the stock hop up rubber with a G&G green one after the stock rubber was torn by the "spacer" <_<

 

 

 

 

Just a quick question for those of you who've gone for the longer barrel Tavor, Does it have the same cylinder as the regular one? ie, a non ported cylinder?

Yes, a non ported cylinder.

Edited by Disajim
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About how many rounds (or magazines) did you fire until your motor burned out?

 

Its a total shame that this happened already. Unless he put over 10k rounds through it in only a couple months I doubt it was any number to have caused this through normal ware. I wonder what battery you were using though?

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One worrying thing about this AEG are proprietary parts. What do we do if tappet or gearbox shell breaks ? Cylinder head and hopup chamber are also unique, just as plastic parts of trigger mechanism inside the gearbox.

 

Anyone know of any place to source these replacement parts ?

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I found this thread extremely useful and thank all it's contributors as the advice has helped a lot - so I would appreciate some more...

 

I have experienced the semi/auto lockup, but by using a 9.6V battery I seem to have (temporarily) eliminated it - but now I'm worried about the motor - is a 9.6V safe for use in this thing?

 

IF.

Edited by Imperial Fist
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Good news everyone!

 

I just got mine in earlier today, and it is a beuty.

 

Though there is one thing I think this thread was really missing, a comparison between the tavor and other rilfles for inner barrel length and overall size. I'll be making a my first impressions now, as I need to skirmish with this before doing a real review

 

16c71gh.jpg

 

I tried lining up a full length CA G36, the Ares DE Tavor, and a AGM M4 GBBR by the magwells, I now notice that the AGM wasn't quite placed right in the photo, but you get the point. The DE Tavor seems to have about the same barrel length as the G36 and yet has a overall smaller body than the M4 with a collapsible stock at position four out of six (my prefered firing position with the M4).

 

+1 For the DE Tavor

 

Other things said about the Tavor....

 

Shakey magwell: I have the Ares midcap that came with this and a CA hicap, it seems that the Ares mag is a bit thicker than the CA mag, I can take a caliper to this if anyone wants me to. I stopped all the Ares mag wobble with electrical tape in the magwell, this also tones down the CA mag wobble. However, this doesn't mean that mags will just fall out when they please, they stay locked in and fire fine despite the wobble.

 

+/- 0, rather meh kind of deal here, easy free fix and even then, not a huge deal.

 

The barrel moves!: Yes, you can move the outer barrel by pushing it with a little force, I wouldn't worry about that, this would be the same for any free float barrel system and the Tavor does seem to some some bits of free float going for it. As far as I'm considered, don't *silly F word replacement* with it and you should be fine.

 

+/- 0, not a big deal, but worth mentioning.

 

I don't have an IDF sling!: Neither do I, but I found out that you can take a three point sling mount cord (of which I have extras), take the plastic tab off and move the cord through the rear sling mount, then knot it on the other side. Congrats, you can now use one point slings on that, I wouldn't worry about the cord either since the IDF sling seems to use a cord there and these cords are strong enough to carry the weight of a G36E with full metal AG36 for a full game day with no signs of wear.

 

+1 for being able to use the IDF sling or really anything I want.

 

The lock up/spring release problem: Sadly I've locked up in single a few time, but that was solved by moving to auto, firing, and going back, no clue why. Its also notable that my spring release seems to only work after firing on full auto. Over all a minor problem and made up for in having a spring release in the first point and the next point.

 

-1 still a problem, but having a spring release makes up for it.

 

Spring release: Seems to only work on mine after firing full auto, but its rather amazing to me, I honestly think every AEG needs one of these since it can prevent spring compression.

 

+1 for being useful.

 

Trigger response: Honestly, its comparable to the trigger response on the AGM M4 GBBR. It does feel a little better and more responsive. Every pull of the trigger lets the spring go and then rewinds it back up, similar to how the L85's work if I recall correctly, only no blow back. Honestly, every AEG should work like this.

 

+1 for the best trigger response I've ever had.

 

Battery size: I fit a 9.6v mini type just fine with no troubles, but make sure you can pull the bolt back, have it lock, and be able to release it before thinking that you're good, you want to make sure those fires aren't in the way of anything. After getting a battery into a G36 and then the AG36 (a pain by the way to get a 9.6v battery in that), I really appreciate this.

 

+1 for easy battery installation.

 

Feel: Coming from a guy that loves rubber butt-plates and VFGs, this just feels right, period.

 

+1 for just feeling right.

 

The mag release: I definitely need to do one of those spring mods everyone's doing here, even after trying to fix the mag wobble, mags will fall right out of this thing if it isn't

 

+/- 0 since it can be a rather easy free fix since I plan on upgrading the spring anyways.

 

Over all 5 +'s, 1 -, and 3 neutrals for me so far. I'm sure the spring change for me will just me a plus too. Over all I'm very happy with this one and have decided to name it "Vera".

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What mags are you running?

 

For me I had to grab the mag and shake it myself for the Ares mag to shake, but if I shook the gun, the CA mag wobbled a lot. I put a layer of electrical tape on each side of the mag well and three layers of tape right onto the CA mag. No more wobble. I may also note that mags don't just fall out of my Tavor like that, so I got some insurance before getting a cut AEG spring.

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Any feedback on installed spring vs power ? I have gotten slightly disappointing results related to spring rating. For example Guarder SP110 and CA M120 both chronoed at 350fps.

 

Because in Japan the max allowed is 0.98J, while the gun was clocking easily a 1.1~1.2J, I tried changing the spring right away to a Systema uneven pitch 1J I had in stock. Of course the goddam output when to bananas, and I ended up with a nasty 0.7~0.75J... not really what I was expecting.

 

I ordered a Systema 130 uneven pitch and will update the output once it's done. Although I also ordered a new air muzzle, following everyone's recommendation, but I'm afraid this is gonna boost yet over the 0.98J even with the 130... we'll see.

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I experienced quite a loss of power after installing Prometheus tightbore. Instant 25fps drop. The problem lies with hopup chamber and barrel, stock barrel is slightly longer (about 1mm) so it pushes the bucking deeper into the chamber. I had to modify the chamber to accept Prometheus barrel, a little dremeling and improvisation.

 

Thanks to The Reptile House, it came as a great discovery - standard Armalite hopup chamber is compatible, but with slight modifications: one has to file away the tube at the bottom. IMHO, chamber integrated with gearbox is more harm than good, especially when you have to to modifications.

Edited by Hristo
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Any feedback on installed spring vs power ? I have gotten slightly disappointing results related to spring rating. For example Guarder SP110 and CA M120 both chronoed at 350fps.

 

:huh:

 

This Monday I installed a M120 in mine and chronoed 398fps, just below the limit for assault guns in my country (400fps)

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Guess what… my motor died.

 

 

I had to put an ICS Turbo 3000 borrowed from my AKS74U. It Works fine, but is too fast. Now shoots 2 rounds in semi :huh:

I'm going to test ROF tomorrow.

i had to change the motor in my tavor too, did you have the simple grey motor without any markings?

 

 

 

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