MP5K alternative

[Punkypink]

I really don't want to ask this, but... are you dumb? Like, medically less intelligent?

 

wow, You are saying:

 

magazines have no weight, esp with 470 Bb's inside?

 

A mag is vertical, so any weight it places will be more or less on the balance point, thus minimally affecting the weight balance. If this is something you don't know, I suggest you either go back to school, or if you are going to school, wait till you're old enough to learn some basic physics before you come join the grown-ups' discussions m'kay?

 

 

wow, You are saying:

 

 

you have to use a compact weapon with its stock folded?

 

 

I'm saying you CAN use a compact weapon with the stock folded. If compactness is one of the primary deciding criterias, are you telling me we cannot consider the dimensions of the weapon with the stock folded against other weapons without a folding stock?

 

wow, You are saying:

 

You cant aim properly with a P90 with an integrated red dot/ pistol sights?

From http://www.personaldefenceweapons.com

 

Interesting -and almost necessary due to the bullpup design- is that this weapon does depend on other than iron sights. The sight radius would probably be too small to exploit the range potential of the bullet with iron sights.

 

http://www.personaldefenceweapons.com/SCHV...s/schv_pdws.htm

 

'Nuff said.

 

Yes you do need glasses, although I'm beginning to suspect the probelm isn't your eyes.

 

sorry that your attempt to look like a smart alec backfired on you.

[Punkypink]

Guys, G36C's are 6-7 pounds or so, and MP5k's are like 4.5 pounds.

My MP5K is 2.3kg with the battery in, which is about 5 pounds.

 

 

 

 

 

Anyways, personally I favour the MP5K the most, but there are a lot of small guns out there worth a look, and in the end I think it boils down to personal preference.

 

Trying to pass off personal preference as fact, such as "G36Cs are HUGE" is a no no and will be laughed off by knowledgeable members of arnies.

[quinch]

Being only 5’ 2” and having (or still owning) most of the AEG’s being mentioned here…

 

P90 – to hold its just…well, perfect. However, the impracticalities of it as a skirmish AEG soon come calling.

 

1 – Mini-battery capacity only. Ok, these days it can be upped by adding either a stock extension or converting to LiPo or adding one of the M16/Mass capacity magazine attachments.

 

2 – Its short…sounds like that ought to be an advantage huh? But sorry it isn’t, the barrel is just too close to your hand to gauge “instinctively” where it’s pointing. Exclusive use of optics is the way round this but I’m not a big fan of this style of tunnel-vision inducing play.

 

3 – Unreliable and low capacity magazines. It’s been mentioned before, but its true…getting LBE for the mags is easier now so that’s not the issue. Changing mags in a hurry or even expecting your mags to use 90% of the BB’s inside them IS an issue though. Again, this can be resolved with the mass-capacity attachement.

 

I’ve mentioned the M16 mag converter…its seemingly a decent idea BUT…it largely prevents you making an AEG safe. Remove the magazine from it and you loose 100’s of BB’s on the floor. Add to this that you now have a 3,000 round box mag on a P90 and you can see this limits play potential.

 

G36C – Seemingly a normal “rifle” size weapon but with a nice short barrel and folding stock…

 

1 – The stock, extended, for me was not comfortable (TM version). You can’t adjust it easy for length (you can of course shave bits of the stock rubber though) so I used this mainly with stock folded.

 

2 – Balance. With stock folding it IS front heavy. Also battery changes are a…pain! Forget it whilst underfire. Worried about weight and balance? Add a single point bungee sling and stop worrying…you don’t aim with the sights if you’re using this for CQB or FIBUA games…fire from the hip and love it. But the H&K Iron Sights are, to me, the best type of Iron Sight for Airsoft.

 

3 – Reliable. Very…very…very reliable. Nuff said…this AEG can go, unmodified for years and years of softing.

 

4 – Magazines. Good capacity choice, reliable feeding but…G36 specific pouches are really needed for good changes. Those lugs just get in the way.

 

M4 variants – The “everyman” AEG….lots of choices, short “stubbies” which are nice lookers, medium length ones you can happily use for woodland too.

 

1 – Extendable stocks…not foldable but a good range of positions (6 usually) meaning you can get some good comfort. Buy a version with a front wired battery and just get rid of the stock altogether if you want! Not real-life realistic but this is Airsoft. LR’s have folding stocks though. The stubby versions tend to come with scaled down solid stocks…another option to throw out there.

 

2 – Near-Endless “bitz-n-bobz”….Rails, RAS’s, barrels, stocks, optics…blah-blah-blah..the M4 family has a massive range of after sales crud you can add to them. The only thing between you and oblivion is personal good sense….oh dear…

 

AK-Betas – I am going to go out on a limb and recommend one of these.

 

1 – Balance. Its been mentioned before but a Beta with a solid stock and battery in, is very well balanced..though, I still think, a little odd looking. Big battery for am win though huh?

 

2 – Mags and kit; good range of magazines from short ones to normal long ones with all capacities available…hell, you can even get a drum mag. Kit to hold the mags is cheap (search for VN NVA kit on Ebay or East German stuff).

 

3 – Choices…thanks to the Chinese there is now a wide choice of versions now. I have a Jing Gong AK-Beta-f…folding stock version. I find it hugely compact with stock folded, the stock is perfect length for a stunty like me too…I’ve added a thumb-hole foregrip to it so the stock folds correctly and it’s an awesome piece! Reliable still after three years ownership (yes, it’s a Chinese made AEG that’s been reliable without upgrading!). Still not happy? Ok, lets take off the stock and convert it to an M4 extendable stock…yes, we can do that too now.

 

4 – Aiming? No, we don’t worry about that. In fact with any short barrel AEG accuracy suffers of course but the AK-Beta is a little worse than the P90 (which actually has a decent length of barrel). Optics look a little odd on a Beta but it can be done if you want but you have to buy the optics attachment.

 

L85 – Why hasn’t this been mentioned? ARES or ARMY…not the best choices but you could get an ARMY one for the price range.

 

1 – Short but not short. Holds like a short AEG but performs like a nice long one….thank you Bull-pup design!

 

2 – Poor reliability (even the ARES version..poly-mechbox)…nuff said.

 

3 – Magazines….you cant have massive capacity mags…they’re in the wrong place for that! Mag changes need to be learned as well.

 

4 – optics/sights…lack of decent optics or sights is an issue (can be got but at a silly price)

 

FAMAS – FAMAS am best gun! Bull-pup design so wins on being short and well balanced.

 

1 – Old design. TM designed this AEG to run from Radio controlled car 7.2v batteries…FPS is 280 on a good day as standard…RoF is large using 8.4v batteries.

 

2 – Magazines, same issues as with the L85.

 

3 – Optics/sights, pretty much the same issue as with the L85 again.

 

Machine Pistols…Vz/MP7 etc – Pretty decent option but not what I’d consider Primary weapons unless you have some spare cash behind them.

 

1 – Small battery. Means you need to change more often! I prefer an AEG that lasts at least half a day if not a full day on one battery.

 

2 – Magazines. Not all models have the range of magazines available.

 

3- Range. Low FPS and very short barrels…these are CQB-friendly RiF’s only. Fun to use successfully in woodland but difficult to do so.

 

Long post…sorry. Haven't mentioned the Mp5's as I think they've been pretty much covered....

[Punkypink]

Great post Guinch. I do have one question though. How come you feel the G36C is front heavy?

 

At the moment such things are subjective, so what I'm going to do is put up a pic of a G36 where the balance point with the stock folded is marked out with a red line. How much of the weight needs to be behind (aka how far right does the red line need to shift) before you'd consider it well balanced?

 

 

I find the balance as it is, if anything, a bit rear-heavy, and thats considering my G36C has a vert foregrip, L250 laser and a M3 taclight mounted on the front rails.

 

 

[ktk_ace]

Great post Guinch. I do have one question though. How come you feel the G36C is front heavy?

 

At the moment such things are subjective, so what I'm going to do is put up a pic of a G36 where the balance point with the stock folded is marked out with a red line. How much of the weight needs to be behind (aka how far right does the red line need to shift) before you'd consider it well balanced?

 

 

I find the balance as it is, if anything, a bit rear-heavy, and thats considering my G36C has a vert foregrip, L250 laser and a M3 taclight mounted on the front rails.

 

Not everyones a butch you know.

[Punkypink]

And someone's given up trying to debate with logic and gone straight for insults. I'd heed your own advice now if I were you

[ktk_ace]

I really don't want to ask this, but... are you dumb? Like, medically less intelligent?

 

 

A mag is vertical, so any weight it places will be more or less on the balance point, thus minimally affecting the weight balance. If this is something you don't know, I suggest you either go back to school, or if you are going to school, wait till you're old enough to learn some basic physics before you come join the grown-ups' discussions m'kay?

 

 

 

I'm saying you CAN use a compact weapon with the stock folded. If compactness is one of the primary deciding criterias, are you telling me we cannot consider the dimensions of the weapon with the stock folded against other weapons without a folding stock?

 

 

From http://www.personaldefenceweapons.com

 

 

 

http://www.personaldefenceweapons.com/SCHV...s/schv_pdws.htm

 

'Nuff said.

 

Yes you do need glasses, although I'm beginning to suspect the probelm isn't your eyes.

 

sorry that your attempt to look like a smart alec backfired on you.

 

Yes, you play with a perfectly balanced G36C with no magazine .

 

You need to play more on the see saw sis.

 

 

Typical Singaporean girl, its no wonder .

 

oh

 

and your ignorance is here for all to see, you cant care because you are shameless and thick skinned.

 

Perfect for airsoft i guess.

[Punkypink]

There is no point further debating with you. All you can do is hurl illogical insults.

 

Would someone else like to try explaining to the troll that the insertion of a G36 magazine doesn't shift the weight balance forward by more than a few mm? He obviously has just decided not to read any of my replies and reply to what he imagines instead.

[ktk_ace]

And someone's given up trying to debate with logic and gone straight for insults. I'd heed your own advice now if I were you

 

I cant take anything from someone who says the G36C is not front heavy,

 

when two other girls have expressed their own feedback on the same gun saying it is .

 

Well at least one has tried to minimize the problem with a SLING, which is genius compared to ignoring the problem .

 

 

Why dont you dig a hole and hold it out? G36 FANGIRL?

 

 

 

 

 

[ktk_ace]

There is no point further debating with you. All you can do is hurl illogical insults.

 

 

Would someone else like to try explaining to the troll that the insertion of a G36 magazine doesn't shift the weight balance forward by more than a few mm? He obviously has just decided not to read any of my replies and reply to what he imagines instead.

 

Your replies are illogical too, it is only fair that i reply in such a manner.

 

Oh

 

I think a better word will be BIASED .

 

 

as for the explanation

 

No one will, you invented it yourself that the G36C is perfectly balanced when held by the pistol grip with folded stock and no magazine.

 

Im guessing 30 months in the army has turned you into someone who cant get a proper feel of weight distribution.

 

the batts 150G, the muzzle 50G, the barrel even more. and the pistol grip is the pivot .

[Punkypink]

I cant take anything from someone who says the G36C is not front heavy,

 

when two other girls have expressed their own feedback on the same gun saying it is .

 

Well at least one has tried to minimize the problem with a SLING, which is genius compared to ignoring the problem .

 

 

Why dont you dig a hole and hold it out? G36 FANGIRL?

No need to. All I simply need to do is to place the gun on the floor, put something long and round under it to act as a fulcrum, and find out where the balance point is. Everyone else who has a G36C, try it.

 

That beats all your claims of some "two other girls who feel it is front heavy". Such claims can be made up by anyone with no proof. No, genius is when you actually have some objective evidence as compared to making bull *suitcase* claims and then attempting to cover up a lack of any factual evidence with a lot of smoke and mirrors.

 

It's simple science, not that you can grasp the concept of science though. You can only hold onto the most inane, tenacious things like the self-professed "fangirl" in my signature and keep yapping about that, despite my obviously logical and methodical attempts at the debate.

 

Lets not mince words here. We all know from your other thread that you're a hypocrite. As someone else pointed out, of the 7 things you accused me of in one post, you commited 4 of them FIRST. It wouldn't be any surprise to find out that once again, you're accusing me of something else you clearly are: biased.

 

Furthermore, your contribution to the thread has been minimal, with unquantified responses that add nothing to the debate. I actually make an effort at scientific quantification when talking about things such as weight distribution, while all you can do is talk about 2 other possibly imaginary girls to back your claims up. Try harder.

[Reppyboyo]

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!

 

 

 

 

or not.....

[ktk_ace]

No need to. All I simply need to do is to place the gun on the floor, put something long and round under it to act as a fulcrum, and find out where the balance point is. Everyone else who has a G36C, try it.

 

That beats all your claims of some "two other girls who feel it is front heavy". Such claims can be made up by anyone with no proof. No, genius is when you actually have some objective evidence as compared to making bull *suitcase* claims and then attempting to cover up a lack of any factual evidence with a lot of smoke and mirrors.

 

It's simple science, not that you can grasp the concept of science though. You can only hold onto the most inane, tenacious things like the self-professed "fangirl" in my signature and keep yapping about that, despite my obviously logical and methodical attempts at the debate.

 

Lets not mince words here. We all know from your other thread that you're a hypocrite. As someone else pointed out, of the 7 things you accused me of in one post, you commited 4 of them FIRST. It wouldn't be any surprise to find out that once again, you're accusing me of something else you clearly are: biased.

 

Furthermore, your contribution to the thread has been minimal, with unquantified responses that add nothing to the debate. I actually make an effort at scientific quantification when talking about things such as weight distribution, while all you can do is talk about 2 other possibly imaginary girls to back your claims up. Try harder.

 

I didnt know you put the pivot on a string, classic.

 

Not everyone as a vert forgrip, not everyone has a RDS, no one but you put the pivoting point at the middle of the gun.

 

 

 

Comparing a Pimped out G36C with customized stuff and weight distro? classic, I can bring in the armalite crowd in anytime.

 

We call people like you a mountain tortoise.

[Stealthbomber]

I haven't read all of this yet but the part I HAVE read seems all rather bitchy and childish.

 

So let's wind our necks in, retract our claws and play nice, eh?

[Punkypink]

Weight, my dear is very simple. Most of the ancillaries do not weigh much. In any case, the base gun as it is, tends to be rear heavy.

 

If you don't even understand basic physics how are you going to contribute to the discussion here? What else can you do but add insults?

 

I could certainly take off all the accessories on my gun. they're all on the FRONT, which, if the gun is front heavy as you claim, should make it more front heavy should it not? And yet, WITH accessories on, my G36's weight is rear-biased, so if I took them off, the gun would be EVEN MORE REAR HEAVY. It's not a hard concept to understand is it?

 

And no, I don't make the claim based on what I feel with the gun in hand. I make the claim based on a simple way of finding out where the balance point, ie, where the effect of gravity on the frontal mass cancels out the effect of gravital on the rear mass.

[ktk_ace]

I haven't read all of this yet but the part I HAVE read seems all rather bitchy and childish.

 

So let's wind our necks in, retract our claws and play nice, eh?

 

At the expense of misinforming others and jepardizing the reputation of this forum because of biased misinformation,

 

Sure.

 

I'm cool.

 

I dont have claws or nails that need manicures anyway.

[Punkypink]

I dont have claws or nails that need manicures anyway.

You just couldn't resist yet another cheap sexist shot could you

[ktk_ace]

Weight, my dear is very simple. Most of the ancillaries do not weigh much. In any case, the base gun as it is, tends to be rear heavy.

 

If you don't even understand basic physics how are you going to contribute to the discussion here? What else can you do but add insults?

 

I could certainly take off all the accessories on my gun. they're all on the FRONT, which, if the gun is front heavy as you claim, should make it more front heavy should it not? And yet, WITH accessories on, my G36's weight is rear-biased, so if I took them off, the gun would be EVEN MORE REAR HEAVY. It's not a hard concept to understand is it?

 

hold it out like a pistol with your able hand.

 

say it is NOT front heavy.

 

 

[Punkypink]

hold it out like a pistol with your able hand.

 

say it is NOT front heavy.

That is not the way to find weight distribution. That's like saying holding out a rear-heavy porsche is front heavy because you're holding it up in your hand by the rear bumper.

 

Be prepared for howls of laughter directed at you

 

Front heavy, my good sir, is when you hold the gun with both hands, and more weight is over the hand that's at the front than at the back.

[Stealthbomber]

hold it out like a pistol with your able hand.

 

say it is NOT front heavy.

Gotta say, I agree with him.

 

You don't hold a gun by the magwell (unless it's an uzi). You hold it by the pistol-grip.

It's ridiculous to say that the balance of a G36 doesn't change when you load a mag.

 

Summat like an Uzi or MP7 is perfectly balanced for one-handed use.

A gun like an L85 or P90 is rear-heavy.

Guns like G36s and MP5ks are front-heavy.

 

Arguing about things which are common sense is a little pointless so let's just get over it and move on, eh?

 

I guess ktk_ace doesn't like G36s and Punky' does. Case closed.

[ktk_ace]

Case closed.

[Punkypink]

But this IS a thread about MP5K alternatives, not a thread for pistols. Most primaries were intended for use with 2 hands. Just like where the front and rear of a car begins is not decided by where the driver is sitting, where the front and rear of a gun begins is not decided by where you hold it by.

 

Due to the position of the gearbox and motor, actually a good deal of weight IS beyond the magwell, which makes it rear heavy.

 

Also sir, if you read, I said the balance changes minimally, since a magazine is vertical. The forward shift in weight is approx 5mm at most with a mag in, which still makes the gun lean towards the rear when you have a pivot resting on the mid point of its entire length.

 

Fact is, the G36C AND the SIG552 are both guns to consider for smaller people who want a full sized AEG but do not wish to use a MP5K. Iff they're trying to fire it one handed and complain its front heavy... then that's like complaining a car is badly design when you try to steer with your feet and don't really succed at steering isn't it?

 

 

[Stealthbomber]

Sorry, you don't seem to get it.

 

I'm TELLING you that the reference for balance of a weapon is considered to be the pistol grip.

 

You then consider if the gun tries to lean backward or forward from the pistol grip.

That's how the rest of the world does it so now you've learned something perhaps we can all move on?

[Punkypink]

Could the rest of the world PM me to let me know if what Stealth says is true? Gun forums don't seem to be saying the same thing, but since Stealthie is saying it, theres a good chance it is. Still, always prudent to not just take a single source as fact. So, always happy to learn, please get in touch. Cheers

[ktk_ace]

Could the rest of the world PM me to let me know if what Stealth says is true? Gun forums don't seem to be saying the same thing, but since Stealthie is saying it, theres a good chance it is. Still, always prudent to not just take a single source as fact. So, always happy to learn, please get in touch. Cheers

 

I would have to be a mod to change your thinking.

 

 

 

Im just a chairsofter , i anit no SF or soldier.

 

 

Its good to be a civve now.

 

 

pS> why dont you try it out , the pistol grip? your body will tell you the answer.