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The Real Steel Discussion Thread


elrey

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So, the news about FAMAS replacement are out. The government agency responsible for armaments (DGA) announced a call for offers, and aside from the big names like H&K (who already supplied the French Army with a batch of G36KVs with launchers as you apparently can't reliably bolt a 40mm plonker to a FAMAS) and FN Herstal the list is curious to say the least. The deal goes like this: companies from EU/EFTA countries only, 45 thousand rifles, 45 thousand carbines, ammo supply to go with it: 38 millions of 5.56x45 rounds and 92 thousand 40mm grenades. That, and the French aren't too keen on bullpups anymore, apparently.

1. H&K are, of course, in, but they haven't revealed whether they'll offer the G36 or HK416.

2. FN offer the SCAR-L, well, duh.

3. SIG is in, with a mysterious offer. It won't be their 55x line, and they won't reveal what is it, but the rumor is they're working on something that uses an AR15 lower that doesn't need the buffer tube, based on an upscaled version of their MPX submachine gun.

4. Beretta brings ARX-160 to the table.

5. Steyr-Mannlicher's offer is just as curious, as it's a piston-operated AR15 clone, the STM-556.

6. Since there's gotta be a French company, IWI is considering a deal with Verney-Carron to manufacture at least the most important parts of Galil ACE in France.

7. Czechs decided to jump on the bandwagon too, but they don't want to reveal what they're bringing in. CZ 805, most probably.

8. Thales will most probably offer the F90, or the latest version of their pimped-out AUG.

9. The last confirmed entry is, you'd never guess, the Polish MSBS-556. Since the assembly line is up and running, it's time to make money.

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Concealment does not always equate to cover.

A couple days ago I was helping a local LE agency with a video project. Mostly content that will probably never be made public, but here's a no frills edit for some of the footage that can be shared.

 

 

We didn't show in the video us shooting at the engine block, wheels etc mostly because this section of the content was mostly to illustrate the fact that, contrary to what Hollywood shows in movies, most of a car is not cover, just concealment.

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I remember seeing a US mil video about the same subject, but they focused on buildings. The video was showing penetration of rounds shot from an AK47 and an M16 at different at different angles to the side of the building and seeing what it actually went through.

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Well they do make their buildings out of cardboard in the US ;)

 

Did you do the whole stand off behind cover thing? I was reading a while ago it is considered best to crouch 1M/1.5M back from cover/concealment to allow for rounds that might have otherwise clipped you, pass over your head as they have been slightly deflected by the cover/concealment.

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We've done that before. I first experienced it during a few vehicle tactics classes. I have since done more testing when working with various LE agencies. We didn't film it. We do plan on filming more of these kinds of things in the future. A lot of what I heard from people prior to my own experience I suspect was what they themselves had read. My personal experience and that of other dudes doing similar testing and being in real active gunfights tends to be a little different than what a lot of the textbook answers have been.

 

In answer to your question, when possible try not to crowd your cover/concealment. Any warfare is a game of angles. The more you crowd the more you sacrifice mobility and angles of engagement. And then there's also deflection which does happen. That said it is also situation dependent. If you're being flanked you're angles are already being compromised anyway and you might need to get closer to it. Plus there are times when using your cover for supported shooting gives you significant gains in accuracy. Lots of opinions out there. Not everyone agrees. Or as my delta buddy likes to say: "The right answer to every question in warfare is: It depends." :D

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Not crowding your cover is pretty basic gun fighting technique and applies equally to real steel, airsoft and paintball. 

 

Being a bit further back from your cover allows you to expose less while shooting around the cover itself. It also allows you to switch sides easier since your rifle isn't pressed up against whatever you're hiding behind.

 

I know a lot of airsofters get their shooting drills from real steel instruction videos like Art of the Dynamic Carbine and such, but it's actually pretty instructive to watch a few games of speedball paintball. Obviously, paintball and airsoft are a lot closer analogs than airsoft and real steel, so the way that speedball players use their cover and how they return fire is pretty instructive.

 

I know this may seem like blasphemy and I'm certainly not advocating for speedsoft, but sometimes it's nice to have different sources for technique.

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