WE GBB PDW

[danielsilva]

Got to use the we pdw open bolt gbbr at a game today. I had cut the inner barrel down to drop the fps. I was running it with propane and .28g bbs. Range is impressive...accuracy is acceptable. I could hit a target past 180 feet. Once every 3 or 4 shots narrowly missing it by a few inches or a foot to the left, right, or up high. By target, I mean a person sized target. I wouldn't say its as good of a shooter as the kjw m4 but it is definitely skirmishable. The open bolt system offers a night and day difference compared to the awss/escort/ closed bolt system we has been using.

 

Sorry for the informal post. I'm on my phone and driving the car home.

 

Looks a bit how my m14 performed stock ( although i run with much higher FPS and as such at 180 feet my accuracy was just a bit better ), this got me scratching really hard for a PDW now

If the PDW gets the same accuracy boost from replacing the hop with a Prometheus VSR bucking as my M14 it's definitely a HUGE improvement over the old system

 

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Btw how does the gun perform/functions/cycles with the STANAG mags ? I already have a shitload of WE mags and it's way cheaper ( and reversible ) to just convert them with the open bolt kit than having to buy a bunch of brand new open PDW mags.

Edited September 11, 2010 by danielsilva

[sacairsoftsn00py]

The gun cycles well with the stanag magazines. They actually lock back the bolt a whole lot better than the pdw magazines (surprisingly). Down side is that they are loose where as the pdw magazines fit like a glove. Personally, I like the stanag magazines better. However, its cheaper to go with the pdw magazines. Gas/bb capacity with the pdw magazines are lesser (as previously noted) than the regular stanag. No big deal really...so long as it can empty one full load of bbs in the mag and lock back...its gravy baby.

 

Also with the pdw mags, bolt lock feature is somewhat finicky.

 

Sticking some shrink tubing on the bolt catch arm inside the gun solves the problem for the pdw mag. However, stanag mags will want to engage the bolt catch any time it likes with this particular mod.

[ahadsz]

wait so if im getting this correct the pdw and the m14 shoots about 180 ft in range and acceptable range? Without upgrades, dang maybe ive been taking the gbbrs thing too seriously. I like the kjw but the externals dont impress me as much, and for either of these rifles is it best to keep them stock or is there 1 or 2 upgrades needed?

[danielsilva]

wait so if im getting this correct the pdw and the m14 shoots about 180 ft in range and acceptable range? Without upgrades, dang maybe ive been taking the gbbrs thing too seriously. I like the kjw but the externals dont impress me as much, and for either of these rifles is it best to keep them stock or is there 1 or 2 upgrades needed?

 

Huh your posts are getting a bit confusing ... sacairsoftsn00py usually uses duster on his GBBR's and he clearly stated he had a max range of 180 feet using duster ( 320 fps with .20g BB's ).

Read my posts about the M14 ( basically the same hop-up unit ), i measured a max range of ~80m ( 260 feet ) with the M14 shooting >450 fps with an effective range ( as in, i could always hit what i was aiming at ) of about 60~70m ( 200~230 feet ) when using .28g BB's. This was with the stock configuration, with a prometheus vsr bucking the groupings were a bit more tight.

[ahadsz]

Ill be using green gas, but im saying ive been researching gbbrs for a longgg time, and i was in love with the pdw, the m14 and the kjw but people changed my opinion and i was going to go for the kjw except i hate the externals. So, i may in the end get this pdw or the m14 instead of the kjw because its accurate, ive always wanted a nice accurate and long range gbbr so thats pretty much All I wanted. And should I use .28 gram bbs as well? and all the tb does it improve groupings so its not that necessary?

[sacairsoftsn00py]

Dsilva...I'm with you on your comment avout a particular user. For that reason I have stopped adressing personal questions directed towards me. Instead, I focus on what I could share to everyone on the forums.

 

All I have to say is open bolt is win! I would write a review for a stock one but I had already done specidic "mods" to my particular unit.

 

I think ill run my gun with propane/ green gas now. Cold weather is coming so duster gas isn't really a viable option as o get quicker cool down effects because of it. if someone made some sort of polymer/metal bolt carrier group for the we open bolt, then the gun would be able to run on duster/134a gas better.

 

So far, I am a fan of the we open bolt system. However, that trigger assembly is still a question....or questionable for me. Time will tell....when it goes, it goes.

 

My old we scars trigger unit went poof on me in 3k rounds...

[ahadsz]

oh, wow...just wondering lower fps will that increase range and accuracy on a gbbr like on an aeg or no? And where can I aquire duster gas? I have green gas laying around, and hopefully ill be getting this or the m14 its up to my self to choose ive bugged you guys enough about this, thanks for all your help guys.

[danielsilva]

Well let me be straight and to the point with this. Asking whether to get a M14 or a PDW is basically the same as asking which one to get, a car or a motorcycle.

They are complete different guns ... the PDW is short and very light compare to the sheer size of the M14 and its weight, the way you use them on the field will be totally different! No even counting the weight and size differences of a STANAG or PDW mags versus the M14 mag ( a WE M14 mag weights exactly 0.5kg when empty ).

 

If this is your first GBBR i still recommend you to get the KJW, not that i think the WE PDW Open Bolt to be a bad choice but because the KJW still has a better proven record of reliability. Although the open bolt pdw has been getting mostly positive "reviews" it's reliability is still a bit unproven, so the most sound choice would be the KJW. If you don't mind taking a bit of a gamble go for the PDW, if not just get the KJW.

 

Like snoopy said, the PDW's trigger still is a bit of a problem but 80% of the problems are due to the valve locker and firing pin assembly to break and the replacement parts are easy to find and for the most part "cheap".

[ahadsz]

yeah, i see what you guys mean, but im going to university in london after a year or so, so im going to take a break from airsoft, so hopefully this will be my last purchase, and in a way it is my first "gas blowback" rifle but i have had 4 pistols ( 2 kwa's (m1911 and the m93r) and then a Glock 17 by Marushin and a Tokyo Marui Desert Eagle but I sold the other 2 years ago (maybe less.) The thing is I like the PDW and the m14, and actually in all honesty i can afford both there ra-tech counter parts as they all look solid. Now, the problem with the PDW i think was resolved by ra-tech by adding a steel trigger grouping? (dont quote me on it). See have a look for your self, these are the 2 im interested in, but the only thing is that, the m14 parts kind of confuse me is it worth paying that much money? But see for the PDW it looks as if the parts are well put in you know like money was spent well on it. Heres the link, I also like the we m16, but thats the same as the pdw in a way. (except it being longer and probs heavier). http://en.ratech.com.tw/product/rag/ra_custome_work/rag_custome_work_2.php

 

1st one and then the 3rd one on that page.

Edited September 12, 2010 by ahadsz

[danielsilva]

BTW can anyone confirm that the PDW uses the same trigger parts as the M series ?

[ahadsz]

It actually does, surprisingly, (closed bolt that is) but the open bolt ones need a bit of modification thats why if you compare the open bolt custom and the close bolt you can see that closed bolt has different parts then the open bolt.

[danielsilva]

It actually does, surprisingly, (closed bolt that is) but the open bolt ones need a bit of modification thats why if you compare the open bolt custom and the close bolt you can see that closed bolt has different parts then the open bolt.

 

The open and closed bolt trigger groups are the same, what i need to know is if the trigger itself is "short" ( like the M4 ) or is elongated ( like the SCAR ). I think the PDW uses the same trigger than the M4/M16/HK416 but i want to confirm it before i think about getting one.

 

I already have 4 extra steel trigger groups for the M series, i don't feel like buying another set just for the PDW.

[ahadsz]

I just compared the 3 with the parts and the closed bolt and the hk416 and m4 have a cnc trigger, but the open bolt has a cnc trigger set? I think they are interchangeable, and it is the short version because if the other 3 have it why should the open bolt pdw?

[sacairsoftsn00py]

No need for NPAS (though they seem like they are cheaper now).

 

If you stick an 0-ring on the flute valve (so the valve closes quicker than it normally does), you can drop the FPS by 50 FPS or so.

 

I have already cut down my inner barrel by 2 inches, stuck an o-ring on the flute valve and I'm getting around 320-330 FPS with .20g BBs using propane.

[ahadsz]

oh wow, interesting, wait is there a way to increase fps without the npas in a gbbr in general as well or no?

[GrenadierMasada]

I had a quick question, sorry to change subject.

 

If you get a new PDW Open Bolt Rifle, and you buy the WE mags, do you have to convert ALL of the new mags to Open Bolt? Im confused and i'm planning to buy a PDW soon and extra mags, do i have to fit in the Mag Open Bolt kits into my budget too? I saw the RATECH kits and was wondering why they made those, and if the mags come standard as Open Bolt for the newer customers who buy them Open Bolt PDW. Thanks for the help.

[ahadsz]

As far as I know, and I have done a lot of research from videos (to my extent that is) that regular magazines fit perfectly, that is they are interchangeable and if you do go on the route of getting the ones specifically designed for the PDW which is the non-stagnag with the lines across the mag they fit snug and are harder to get out (but wont rattle like the m16 mags) then the ones that work on the regular scar and the m4. So a quick response yes they work, and no there is no "special" mag needed for the pdw, hope that answers your question.

 

EDIT: Also a quick note if you do get the pdw designed mags, they are NOT interchangeable with the scar or the m4, so if i were you I would get the regular mags so that they are compatible with all 3 guns and there variants of course to get a better bang for your buck and reliable bolt lock feature from the stagnag magazines.

Edited September 14, 2010 by ahadsz

[sacairsoftsn00py]

I had a quick question, sorry to change subject.

 

If you get a new PDW Open Bolt Rifle, and you buy the WE mags, do you have to convert ALL of the new mags to Open Bolt? Im confused and i'm planning to buy a PDW soon and extra mags, do i have to fit in the Mag Open Bolt kits into my budget too? I saw the RATECH kits and was wondering why they made those, and if the mags come standard as Open Bolt for the newer customers who buy them Open Bolt PDW. Thanks for the help.

 

We pdw open bolt magazines are readily available so you won't need to convert those.

 

On the other hand the m16 type magazines are only really available with the "closed bolt"/awss system feed lips. Ra tech and airsoft buddy sells feed lips for people to be able to use m16 mags on the open bolt pdw.

 

Pdw open bolt magazines fit snug and won't rattle like the m16/ stanag type mag.

 

Do note however that the stanag type mags allow for a more reliable bolt lock feature than the pdw magazine. Fortunately, shrink tubing the bolt lock arm allows for a reliable bolt lock action.

[kojak]

I was just in NYC and this particular replica is all over the city on promo posters for the new Nikita series remake--the dimpled WE grip is clearly visible.

 

Since I installed the Stinger and NPAS, my bolt sticks in the rear position but only when a mag is inserted. The bolt catch is not engaging; it's some kind of friction problem. What could be causing this issue?

[sacairsoftsn00py]

My we pdw open bolt gbbr has the inner barrel cut down to 225mm. My buddy measured the bore and it came out to be 6.05mm.

 

Aside from that, I replaced the hop bucking with a firefly hard type hop bucking and set the hop for toytec .25g bbs.

 

The hop "nub" that pushes down on the bucking has been dremeled in the middle to simulate the metal plate (without the middle) that pushes down on the bucking in marui gbbs.

 

With an o-ring stuck over the flute valve (.25" inner diameter x 1/16" cross section), @81 degrees (inside the house), I'm getting 320-330 fps with .25g bbs with my setup.

 

I'm really happy with how well the gun shoots though in all honesty, I'm thinking it will fail sooner than later. As said before, only time will tell.

 

If I had access to a warehouse, I would post up an accuracy report.

 

All I can say right now is that the guns accuracy improved over the stock setting. Its more consistent and does not suffer from fliers.

Edited September 15, 2010 by sacairsoftsn00py

[GrenadierMasada]

My we pdw open bolt gbbr has the inner barrel cut down to 225mm. My buddy measured the bore and it came out to be 6.05mm.

 

Aside from that, I replaced the hop bucking with a firefly hard type hop bucking and set the hop for toytec .25g bbs.

 

The hop "nub" that pushes down on the bucking has been dremeled in the middle to simulate the metal plate (without the middle) that pushes down on the bucking in marui gbbs.

 

With an o-ring stuck over the flute valve (.25" inner diameter x 1/16" cross section), @81 degrees (inside the house), I'm getting 320-330 fps with .25g bbs with my setup.

 

I'm really happy with how well the gun shoots though in all honesty, I'm thinking it will fail sooner than later. As said before, only time will tell.

 

If I had access to a warehouse, I would post up an accuracy report.

 

All I can say right now is that the guns accuracy improved over the stock setting. Its more consistent and does not suffer from fliers.

 

 

How does the Stock feel? Im debating over the PDW or SCAR. I WAS going for the PDW until i thought about the skeleton stock. I feel i would like a little more meat to it for reliability.

 

 

[sacairsoftsn00py]

The stock clicks solidly in place. The stock has a few components to it. My gun in particular has a cery very very slight movement. I'm sure everyone will have an individual experience with this. its possible that the teenie tiny wiggle/movement can be fixed with some sort of adhesive/filler as it does not need to come apart.

 

Upper and lower receiver has noticeable play. I stuck a couple of pieces of heat shrink tubing in between the receivers gap and there's zero upper/lower receiver wobble.

 

Just that there is the miniscule stock assembly wobble.

 

I'm happy enough with the performance that I'm actually going to field this over my kjw m4. If or when this breaks, then ill play with the kjw. This lil thing is just more fun for me (right now).

 

Got 3 spare PDW mags in the way. Should be here by next week.

[GrenadierMasada]

The stock clicks solidly in place. The stock has a few components to it. My gun in particular has a cery very very slight movement. I'm sure everyone will have an individual experience with this. its possible that the teenie tiny wiggle/movement can be fixed with some sort of adhesive/filler as it does not need to come apart.

 

Upper and lower receiver has noticeable play. I stuck a couple of pieces of heat shrink tubing in between the receivers gap and there's zero upper/lower receiver wobble.

 

Just that there is the miniscule stock assembly wobble.

 

I'm happy enough with the performance that I'm actually going to field this over my kjw m4. If or when this breaks, then ill play with the kjw. This lil thing is just more fun for me (right now).

 

Got 3 spare PDW mags in the way. Should be here by next week.

 

 

Between the PDW and the SCAR which seems sturdier? I assume the SCAR, ive only held that rifle and after firing it, im diggin the SCAR. My last PDW had stock wobble which i hated, as i shoulder my rifles, regardless of recoil.

 

 

[mnmc10]

i used to have a WE scar and it is indeed more sturdier and solid than the pdw. i managed to remove the very small wobble of the stock just by tightening the silver screws on the hinge.

[sacairsoftsn00py]

Between the PDW and the SCAR which seems sturdier? I assume the SCAR, ive only held that rifle and after firing it, im diggin the SCAR. My last PDW had stock wobble which i hated, as i shoulder my rifles, regardless of recoil.

 

SCAR is sturdier. Down side is the hinge plate that is notorious for breaking. I had a Bomber light weight bolt carrier installed in my old one which definitely helped. Light weight means lesser mass slamming into the hinge plate, higher cyclic rate of fire, and better gas efficiency.

 

Escort/AWSS system is just a pain in the butt. The hop is really crappy and you'll have to spend an extra $12-20 for the stinger hop.

 

Open Bolt system is A LOT BETTER.

 

 

i used to have a WE scar and it is indeed more sturdier and solid than the pdw. i managed to remove the very small wobble of the stock just by tightening the silver screws on the hinge.

 

The stock is made of multiple parts which make up the triangle. Part of this assembly are 2 pins. On my gun, theres a very slight wobble where these parts meet. Silver screws on the hinge tighten/loosen the "swing" of the stock when you fold it. Also, the two hex screws adjust the lock button for a more secure click when you have the stock set so you have it against your shoulder.