GBB M4's Confiscated and Destroyed

[Victory]

Ahhh HELL NO. Now you gone and done it. I'm *fruitcage* ######. And it's because of *albatross* *fruitcage* hole traiters like you that would just assume throw all freedom out the window so you can "feel" safe. *fruitcage* THAT. It's obvious you are not a firearm owner, or know anything about it.. if so you would share the same disdain and utter contempt for the corrupt piece of *suitcase* organization called the BATF. "They're just doing their job" huh? Well tell me, what is their *fruitcage* job? It sure as *suitcase* aint making up their own policies and enforcing them as law.. but that's what they do everyday. And this is just another example. I can not believe the *fruitcage* ###### coming out of your mouth about something "looking dangerous". You must be a member of the *fruitcage* Brady Bunch. They want to take away our "assault rifles" because they're black and scary looking. "IT'S FOR THE CHILDREN!" You make me wanna *fruitcage* puke. And somehow my typo's are supposed to invalidate my argument.. How about cops start arresting people now that "look" dangerous. Nevermind the fact they haven't committed any crime and the police can't prove their a danger to society either but they look like they might so lets throw em in jail anyway. ARE YOU *fruitcage* INSANE? We have freedom in this country, well, at least we did once. It's rotting away every day because of things like this and yet there will always be people like you standing by the way side doing nothing about it but cheering on until one day you will have nothing left. *fruitcage* hell you will regret it then.

 

/rant

 

 

-Vic

[Megalomaniac]

That's where it turns entirely subjective where it doesn't need to be nor should it be. The crime itself is what should be illegal not the potential to do crime. But of course that logic doesn't apply when it comes to the ATF and that's how we end up with shoe-string machineguns.

 

It may not be subjective, what if someone from the ATF noticed that with a quick bit of filling the WE's full-auto trigger group could drop right into any legal semi-auto AR? This topic has far too much armchair oversight committee going. I like the assumption is automatically that the government is not doing its job or that it is over reacting. But again with the knee-jerk reactions.

 

P.S.

 

"potential" beyond a reasonable doubt is conspiracy.

[PianoBlack]

That's the first time I've heard of airsoft guns being imported through Tacoma's customs office. All my overseas orders tend to be screened by customs (complete with green tape resealing everything and loose BBs somehow ending everywhere except in the original baggie ) either in California or Alaska. Considering the Tacoma office is closer than the other two, I'm now wondering why it doesn't pass through it (probably has to do with the sorting facility of the carriers or their flight paths), though perhaps I should be grateful it doesn't .

 

-Piano

[DiscoBiscuit]

It may not be subjective, what if someone from the ATF noticed that with a quick bit of filling the WE's full-auto trigger group could drop rightbut into any legal semi-auto AR? This topic has far too much armchair oversight committee going. I like the assuption is automatically that the government is not doing its job or that it is over reacting. But again with the knee-jerk reactions.

 

I see your point, but it seems like quite a few Glock 18's and M93R's landed on these shores without much fanfare. I suppose it's possible that 'reasonableness' was applied to these items (and they passed the test), but until that is confirmed I would say the ATF themselves may have reacted in as much a knee-jerk fashion as anyone here.

[Megalomaniac]

I see your point, but it seems like quite a few Glock 18's and M93R's landed on these shores without much fanfare. I suppose it's possible that 'reasonableness' was applied to these items (and they passed the test), but until that is confirmed I would say the ATF themselves may have reacted in as much a knee-jerk fashion as anyone here.

 

Yes but those gun's trigger mechanisms may differ greatly from the real steel's the WE M4's may not. Again amongst airsofter's the reaction is nearly always in direct opposition to the government, until I can read a full detailed article on the ATF's reasoning I cannot comment on whether or the seizure was justifiable.

 

Also, typos do invalidate your points, they show haste and lack of time to process thoughts, anything worth saying is worth being said looked over first.

[Kalmar]

Also, typos do invalidate your points, they show haste and lack of time to process thoughts, anything worth saying is worth being said looked over first.

 

That's ###### and you know it. If you're relying on spelling mistakes for your counterpoints than you have decidedly lost the argument. Besides, I think you'd find it hard to spell check when your face looks like this.

 

[Jagdraben]

That's ###### and you know it. If you're relying on spelling mistakes for your counterpoints than you have decidedly lost the argument. Besides, I think you'd find it hard to spell check when your face looks like this.

 

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll243/d...hu/RageFace.png

 

Dude, dude, dude....

 

Did you read his post? It was error-filled!

 

"Anything worth saying is worth being said looked over first"!?

 

Needs moar words. And punctuation marks.

[Stealthbomber]

Okay,

 

Firstly, I REALLY wish people wouldn't post responses within quotes.

It makes it a total pain in the anus to reply.

Anyway...

 

I wouldn't normally do this but since you pulled kalmar about his spelling, I guess it's only fair...

 

No, I think yo are.

You spelled "you" wrong.

 

You spelled Enforcing incorrectly. Having firearms replica's that look VERY similar inside and out, and could in there eyes possibly be used as a weapon to cause mass harm on the population is hardly a "whim".

You misplaced an apostrophe in "replica's". An apostrophe isn't used to show plurals.

You also spelled "there" wrong. It should have been "their".

 

To keep people safe, which is what they do, EVERYDAY.

You misused the word "everyday".

In this context it should be two seperate words; "every day".

 

Now, moving on to the meat of the discussion...

The simple fact is, it looked like it could cause harm to people.

Helluva way to impliment laws.

"If something looks bad it must be"?

Why bother with expert witnesses or juries at all?

Just get somebody to cast an eye over every criminal suspect and decide if they "look" guilty or not, eh?

 

You mean live..... not "life". Maybe we should apply this concept on everything... Even the war on terror.

Not sure where the war on terror crept in?

Is that something to do with the comment in the report about "guns being used against americans every day" or something?

 

I do not want my tax dollars going to the ATF testing toy guns.

That's a bit ignorant.

Let's say I don't like black people and I don't want my tax dollars spent on providing them with legal council.

Is that a good reason to simply throw every black person accused of a crime straight into jail?

Clue: No, it's a completely retarded idea.

 

Everyone needs to cut them some slack, all they were tying to do was protect people. Like I said above, not everyone in the world is an airsoft geek and blaming them for not knowing the difference is just ignorant.

I agree with the first part.

If I'd never seen a GBBR before I probably WOULD go "holy cow, that looks like it wouldn't take much to get it firing real bullets".

 

trouble is that if they go on to doggedly stick to this theory in the face of factual information to the contrary then they aren't doing their reputation as an agency much good.

Furthermore, if they can't produce the factual information to support their claim they're not doing their job either.

 

Alternatively, if the real issue is that the trigger parts can be stripped off a WE M4 and fitted into a real AR15 to make if fire in auto then they need to say so rather than sticking to the story about it being able to fire live ammo.

 

I can actually see why they might not want to broadcast the information about the trigger components. They won't want to give people ideas.

However, in that case, they should simply say that the gun contains parts that contravene [whatever law] and are being seized because of it.

[Megalomaniac]

A very nice attempt to de-rail the thread, I must apologize for my previous comment it should have been made by PM or in an off topic thread.

[DiscoBiscuit]

Yes but those gun's trigger mechanisms may differ greatly from the real steel's the WE M4's may not. Again amongst airsofter's the reaction is nearly always in direct opposition to the government, until I can read a full detailed article on the ATF's reasoning I cannot comment on whether or the seizure was justifiable.

 

Also, typos do invalidate your points, they show haste and lack of time to process thoughts, anything worth saying is worth being said looked over first.

 

Typos? Say what? Where are you returning from, Douchebag school? High marks no doubt. Read my post again, use your good eye this time. What typos do you see? Not that I would care if I had any. Since we're on the topic, lets point out your omission of the word 'not' in the last sentence of your first paragraph (or did you go back and edit that already?). Next we'll move on to your jumbled syntax in your last sentence.

 

Honestly, what's with you? If you're going to cast stones try not to hit yourself in the forehead with one.

 

Also, for someone who can't comment on whether the seizure was justifiable you sure have a lot to say.

[Stealthbomber]

Seems like quite a few people are starting to get a little stroppy with each other.

 

That can stop right now.

[DiscoBiscuit]

A very nice attempt to de-rail the thread, I must apologize for my previous comment it should have been made by PM or in an off topic thread.

 

PM recieved, prozac applied. I retract my DB statement, but man, tread a little lighter or you'll forever have a scarlet letter 'A' on your forehead, and not for adulterer.

[Megalomaniac]

Again can we keep the thread on topic, unless me inserting my foot into my mouth when making a point is a larger issue.

 

All I am saying is that the ATF may well have had reason to seize the WE M4s, why is it so hard to assume that for once the government might have actually done it's job?

 

EDIT:

 

Duly noted Stealth.

[DyNo!]

No honest airsofter needs a replica this high powered and realistic.

[Kalmar]

No honest airsofter needs a replica this high powered and realistic.

 

[Stealthbomber]

No honest airsofter needs a replica this high powered and realistic.

Hypothetically speaking, if a forum user had several previous warnings, all for trolling in one form or another, I think I'd probably give them, say, a month suspension for doing it again.

 

Just putting it out there, like.

[DyNo!]

Hypothetically speaking, if a forum user had several previous warnings, all for trolling in one form or another, I think I'd probably give them, say, a month suspension for doing it again.

 

Just putting it out there, like.

 

Respectfully, instead of threatening me with suspension - could you please suggest a better way of me sharing my opinion?

 

I honestly believe that the airsoft industry has gone too far in trying to replicate firearms.

 

It is a slippery slope - where does realism stop?

[Megalomaniac]

Where does realism stop? To determine that you need to define the point at which a projectile passes the energy threshold of harmless and goes onto injuring, thats when it has gone to far, and as far as I know there are no recorded deaths from the firing of an airsoft gun.

[DyNo!]

Where does realism stop? To determine that you need to define the point at which a projectile passes the energy threshold of harmless and goes onto injuring, thats when it has gone to far, and as far as I know there are no recorded deaths from the firing of an airsoft gun.

 

Well, anything over 1J is dangerous and potentially deadly so we can all agree on that.

 

[Kalmar]

Well, anything over 1J is dangerous and potentially deadly so we can all agree on that.

 

There's a difference between realistic velocities and realistic operations. The later is the issue at hand and if you ask me, is the whole point of airsoft. It's only natural to try and replicate things as closely as physically and legally possible. Perhaps if the laws were a bit more clearly defined we wouldn't be having these issues.

[Megalomaniac]

Perhaps if the laws were a bit more clearly defined we wouldn't be having these issues.

 

Now there is a point that I can agree upon, as it more importantly legitimizes airsoft as a sport if it gets government recognition and regulation.

[Stealthbomber]

I honestly believe that the airsoft industry has gone too far in trying to replicate firearms.

 

It is a slippery slope - where does realism stop?

When did you come up with this theory?

 

Was it back when classics fired in a realistic manner?

Maybe it was when the first GBB pistol was invented?

Was it back when CA first decided to make a metal receiver for a Marui M4?

Perhaps it was Marui making a fake bolt for their DE pistol that did it for you?

Could it have been the moving bolt on the G&G L85 that you found too realistic?

 

Power has no bearing on this discussion.

It's simply about whether the function of a gun would enable it to be modified to shoot live rounds.

With that in mind, I don't see how GBBRs are doing anything that GBB pistols haven't been doing for years.

[Seraphim989]

Well, WA has gone to lengths to make their INTERNALS replicate firearms, and thats where the trouble starts. Its obvious that is not the most efficient method, and so they are doing it only so it resembles the real firearm. I find this going to far, especially since they are sacrificing function.

[Kalmar]

Well, WA has gone to lengths to make their INTERNALS replicate firearms, and thats where the trouble starts. Its obvious that is not the most efficient method, and so they are doing it only so it resembles the real firearm. I find this going to far, especially since they are sacrificing function.

 

Heh, you know as long as there are people like me there will always be money to be made with that.

 

[Danke]

I don't see how GBBRs are doing anything that GBB pistols haven't been doing for years.

 

I would have to venture a guess that it's that the GBBRs are coming in out of the box made of metal vs. the plastic of the GBB pistols.

 

Back when the pistols were first coming in the door in plastic they were clearly not "real". No one got the idea fed to them that those or the metal ones that followed were going to be made into real weapons. If someone had an axe to grind over these GBBRs then that is a different kettle of fish.