Successful Canadian Airsoft Legalization (Ongoing)

[frogfish]

If you're goignto talk about airsoft get your fact straight. UTG have NEVER and will NEVER make any gun. Ever. They're like Ecbho 1, just money grabbers who put stickers on guns and rack up the price.

 

Dosen't matter if UTG made it, they introduced it to the US market, and it rapidly changed things here. Maybe take the tone down a bit, this is an internet forum, not the inquisition, my life dosen't hinge on if I know what exactly UTG does, and I don't think it ever will, so chill.

 

Even though I know this company isn't the most reputable they seem to strongly hint at the fact that this is being brought out of china by UTG that seems to me that they are the seller of this product, dosen't matter if they made it or not, as 90% of retailers buy product from someone else to sell under their name. You don't call the iPhone an HP iPhone do you? Most companies can't afford to own their own factory, so they pay someone else to make their product or they buy a product that is designed to be sold by a second or third party like an importer or distributor. Personally this was a big deal about five years ago, and I voiced my opinion on these boards then, I don't care to get it to it again.

http://www.airsplat.com/items/ER-UTG-NS-MP5-A.htm

 

As for your other comments,

 

I don't quite understand your point on "it's gone from strength to strength and then some" are you saying these illegal companies are good? What happens when they are no longer available, inflation, illegal activities, and people leave the sport because they can't afford it anymore or they don't want to get in truble with the law, like in the case of canadian legislation.

 

As for the monopoly, yes I would say in some realm it is that, but if you look at the US we really only have one large distributor, Spartan Imports, many other companies also illegally import goods from china (like replicas of patented, trademarked, or registered equipment) although some do so legally, they do so in much smaller scale than spartan. From Saint's posts it seems like he would be working on a system that would work for all importers, but as of now he and Mach1 are the only companies the government has decided to trust with this task, and it is only a monopoly if the government determines it to be so, at least it is so here in the US. I think your worry is on price fixing, and although I'm sure there is a great temptation it seems like saint has put enough initiative into this that he wants to get a happy customer base, and one that is angry with him or mach1 will simply return to illegal products.

[Maple-Leaf]

An I agree with Maple-Leaf, this is a good thing, but I stil air my concern that it could turn into a monopoly with him and Mach1 being the ONLY legal importers, thus having a price monopoly, and as much as popel say yes its WAY cheaper than now, its still morally wrong to unfairly jack up the price simply as there is no competition and I bet its a hell of a tempting option.

 

Just to be pedantic: you can't have a monopoly of two - at worst it would be a cartel.

 

On a non-pedantic level, these two companies would only be the master importers - not the final point of sale. So there's still plenty of room for other retailers to jump on board and address the market demand. And I'd reckon that its these retailers, and the players who buy from them, who will provide the checks-and-balances to any attempted "price fixing" that Saint and Mach1 might be tempted to try.

 

On the other hand, considering how much skin Saint has in this particular game (by the sounds of it), it would be awfully dumb of him or Mach1 to even attempt anything like price-fixing or artificial inflation.

 

People always seem to forget that airsoft retailers are in the business becuase they're players too - and therefore have some emotional interest in the market, as well as financial. Also, airsoft is a pretty small and close community - people who are just in it for their own nefarious ends are usually ratted out pretty quickly.

[skruface]

For those of you who haven't a clue about the cost of airsoft in Canada, allow me to fill you in.

 

I've been playing and collecting for over a decade. When I started, a TM M4 was in the $750+ range. Today, even with increased demand, you will pay over $500 Canadian for a TM, assuming you can find one. G&P + Ares guns for $600+. TOP or CA M249's or M60's are well over $1000. My Tanaka M700 AICS was over $750 4 years ago, and I bought it used. WETTI GBBR's are close to $1000. Hell, crappy ACM guns are $350+. I have 9 guns in my own collection, the value of which is closing in rapidly on $10K. The cheapest gun I've ever gotten was a PALCO/CYMA AK105, which I picked up at Christmas for the incredible sum of only $250...a deal that was far too good to pass up, even though I already have 4 AK variants.

 

What's even more amazing is that Canadians are willing (if not happy) to pay prices that are 2.5-3 times higher than you see on American or HK online retailers. We were just so damn happy that someone managed to get a couple of guns in country that we'd pay whatever they want.

 

To have a retailer able to bring in complete lines of full black/full metal AEG's at a reasonable (by our standard, under $500) price is a godsend to us.

[MrBond]

For those of you who haven't a clue about the cost of airsoft in Canada, allow me to fill you in.

 

I've been playing and collecting for over a decade. When I started, a TM M4 was in the $750+ range. Today, even with increased demand, you will pay over $500 Canadian for a TM, assuming you can find one. G&P + Ares guns for $600+. TOP or CA M249's or M60's are well over $1000. My Tanaka M700 AICS was over $750 4 years ago, and I bought it used. WETTI GBBR's are close to $1000. Hell, crappy ACM guns are $350+. I have 9 guns in my own collection, the value of which is closing in rapidly on $10K. The cheapest gun I've ever gotten was a PALCO/CYMA AK105, which I picked up at Christmas for the incredible sum of only $250...a deal that was far too good to pass up, even though I already have 4 AK variants.

 

What's even more amazing is that Canadians are willing (if not happy) to pay prices that are 2.5-3 times higher than you see on American or HK online retailers. We were just so damn happy that someone managed to get a couple of guns in country that we'd pay whatever they want.

 

To have a retailer able to bring in complete lines of full black/full metal AEG's at a reasonable (by our standard, under $500) price is a godsend to us.

 

You forgot to mention for those wondering, that CAD dollars are almost on par with the USD dollars these days, just to give an idea on the value...

 

I bought my Ares CTAR-21 at the reasonable price of 900$ shipped...

[Ace of Spades]

Three years ago I picked up a TM M14 SOCOM for the great price of 900$. STOCK with nothing extra... no mags, no battery, no scope, NOTHING

 

That's more double the price from what WGC is selling them at (428$ USD)

 

My last project M4 totaled out even before getting a gearbox and some form of BUIS, Red-dot, ext ext at well over 1000$. I joined "1k$ club" thread with pretty much all of my AEG's being stock...

 

Many of us that started more then two years ago remember when the UTG MP5 was introduced for the TINY sum of 300$. Before the "lowest" quality and cheapest AEG available was a CA or G&G

[WhiteHawksan]

I think my point is best summarized thus: right now prices are exorbitant. However, if he becomes legal, his prices will be for all intents and purposes identical to US prices, I doubt shipping to Canada from HK is much more than Shipping to the NW US. So if the prices are still significantly higher, than US someone's taking a nice fat slice of pie with their pricing.

 

Of course this would be brilliant if they could get airsoft guns legalized in Canadia so that fair prices are bought to all and sundry.

[uscmCorps]

It's like cultural differences. Outside of Canada, most airsofters can't understand what people in Canada have had to live with. The very fact that every Canadian airsofter in this thread whom the SCAL will actually affect is excited and on board with this speaks volumes. I actually find it odd that non-Canadians would be giving this any negative commentary considering this does not, will not, and will never affect them one iota. But then there's part of me that understands that if this same situation was applied to them in their own non-Canadian countries, based on the prices and the range of choice they're currently dealing with, this would definitely feel like a loss rather than a gain. Non-Canadians need to throw out their own preconceived notions of what airsoft means to them and the liberties they enjoy in their own countries when trying to understand what these guys are going through. What The Saint achieved so far with the Canadian government, that alone is staggering given how difficult it is to change the legal system and legalizing something that had previously been considered illegal and underground. You may or may not understand/relate to what is going on over there, but to those who it actually affects so far everyone's loving it (except for perhaps the illegal traders who've been taking advantage of their fellow Canadians' desperation up until now).

 

WhiteHawksan: It depends on who's getting that nice fat slice. If the Canadian government is getting it through taxation, then what are you going to do? You guys in the UK have to pay VAT right? It's not much different ... except the Canadian gov. probably charges a whole lot more. Also, though it may seem criminal to you, Canadian airsofters and collectors apparently see paying that nice fat slice as being more than acceptable. Because at least they're paying for an extra fat slice rather than buying the whole damn pie two to three times to get the same thing. It affects them and they're perfectly okay with it. It doesn't affect you or any other non-Canadians so I don't really understand why you're so firmly against it. That'd be like me going on the VCRA forums and giving input on it, or commenting on VAT, etc. While what you guys and gals go through over there is foreign to me, I appreciate that it's a system in place that allows you to continue doing what you love. And without it, you might be forced into the same underground state that the Canadians were previously in (or possibly worse). Don't look at it from the standpoint of how it would affect you if you moved there (because that's not going to happen I'm guessing), look at it from the perspective of what their situation was before and all that they have now gained from this (both legally and monetarily).

[Danke]

You are forgetting about volume. Canada has the second largest land mass in the world but our population is less than the state of California.

 

If you import a container of 1000 AEGs you will get a better price than an order of 50, and also the freight and other charges will be less per unit.

 

That said no one over here is going to be getting rich on this, the importers are mostly players who are usually happy to just wind up with a couple freebies out of each order.

[uscmCorps]

You are forgetting about volume.

I didn't. It's an aspect of what your Canadian Importers face that I feared people wouldn't understand (as they historically haven't) so I didn't bother going into it. But I'm glad you brought it up because it is an important point. Even if others may not appreciate the importance of it, I do.

 

 

Edit: About the fat slice comment earlier, even if the retailer is getting 100% of the mark up (which we don't know to be the case), the people which it would actually affect are perfectly okay with it. If they can accept it, and happily too, I don't see why those whom this doesn't affect can't accept it also.

[Danke]

No it's the other guy not twigging on the # of folks live here not you USMC. We're in a big empty country here (cold though so not quite paradise).

[The Saint]

Right now I'm barely making ends meet, and I have to take all sort of ###### from people who think I'm some sort of Canadian airsoft Anti-Christ. This is the worst "monopoly" ever.

[WhiteHawksan]

This is an airsoft forums, we whinge and moan for a past-time? xD But what you've done is incredible, and I for one, despite my whinging and moaning consider you one of the best things ever to happen to Canadian airsoft.

[skruface]

Right now I'm barely making ends meet, and I have to take all sort of ###### from people who think I'm some sort of Canadian airsoft Anti-Christ. This is the worst "monopoly" ever.

 

Some of us quietly appreciate what you're doing, because we've been around long enough to wait out the worst of times for Canadian airsoft. I never *badgeress* about price, because I've seen how many Canadian retailers have come and gone over the years. Ignore the whiners; people always *badgeress* when they want a Mercedes lifestyle on a Kia budget.

[M4A1lover]

Saint, I have two words for you

 

Thank You

[Pkekyo-Nor]

The Saint:

 

What you've accomplished is simply amazing, and nothing less.

Congratulations to you and your fellow Canadian airsofters, and most of all: good luck!

[Maple-Leaf]

Right now I'm barely making ends meet, and I have to take all sort of ###### from people who think I'm some sort of Canadian airsoft Anti-Christ. This is the worst "monopoly" ever.

 

LOL. Don't sweat it mate - don't let the ignorant comments of a few Chairborne Commandos get you down. YOU ROCK!