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MagPul PTS MASADA ACR


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Yours definitely had wobble. And it has since been fixed. Who else's has been confirmed to have wobble? Because out of the 3000 units sold so far, yours is the only one that I'm aware of that has been

I like how me pointing out the obvious in my last post has garnered a negative rep. LOL. Haters gonna hate.

I Lol'd at all the fanboys who had to have this must have aeg. To be honest it seems as if youy have all been taken for a ride. My A&K Masada with systema gearbox *suitcases* all over this ares ab

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I have the same unique washer as you guys, on the same spot too. Barrel holds firm and nice, without even having to apply force to the locking system, it's great (which closes one knob passed the middle point). A BIG improvement on the previous defective model, which was definitely missing something somehow.

 

Didn't try feeding nor hopup yet, but everything looks fine. They did give me however what seems to be a somewhat used model though, as in "not brand new", but whatever, eHobby won't hear from me anymore anyway so I'm done talking with them, good riddance.

Edit: I got it, it's the same ACR with a new upper receiver and barrel assembly, else it's the same, and that explains the weird serial cutout they did on the box they sent back, which was the same as before. Whatever, it seems to work at least... for now. Keep it in mind though, Magpul PTS does not replace defective new items, they "fix" them. I don't like the idea but nothing I can do about it. :waggle:

Edited by Ycare
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Mine doesn't include any of the C22 washers either, it screws on fine just passed the centre point with no movement in the barrel.

 

 

I've been playing around with some different hop buckings today with quite a big difference. With .2's this was what I'm getting:

 

Standard ACR bucking = 326/7 fps almost every shot

Guarder 50% bucking = 321-331 fps getting the best hop on bb's with this. Straight as an arrow

Promethius Soft Purple bucking = 351 fps but unfortunately it doesnt have built in nub parts like the guarder/standard which means im not getting enough bite. So if I wan't to use this I'm gunna have to swap out the cog in the assembly section!

 

 

My crane stock also arrived a bit ago and I have to say although I'm glad I bought it for CQB games in any of the FIBUA sites I'm really not so keep on the look or the feel of it compared the the standard stock. Also when its in its an absolute *badgeress* to get the 2 rear pins back in, the top one especially. Seems that the stocks holes don't align quite right with the ones in the upper and lower reciever!

Edited by Squeek
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+1 to Doedkoett & Sacair. Again, I think if dStole could have his serial # database logging site to include another column/field about the barrel shims, this would be useful.

 

Added this as another field that people can add info to.

 

Also, please remember that if you register for an account you need to add details about your ACR within 72 hours or your account will be deleted.

 

http://www.ginganinga.com/MMAR

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IDK about installing a rubber gasket, because the barrel shims used are really thin.

 

Turns out my barrel only needed one.

 

 

It was hard to get a good pic, but you can see it sits about 2 clicks off center.

 

 

 

Sweet. Thanks. I'm going to assume that not all rifles needed the washer (like a shimming issue).

And assuming all else functions fine (I've STILL not had a chance to actually fire mine with ammo), I"m not going to bother with a RMA/repair.

It appears I could easily pop on a washer myself to 'shim' this if ever needed. I actually think I have a rubber washer that thin that I can use if I ever have to.

 

Which means.... I'm good for launch to start installing my upgrades for a game this weekend.

 

 

Thanks guys!

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It's official about the washers...

 

 

This is an email from SPARTAN imports to AIRSOFTGI:

 

---------------------------------------

Hi Airsoft GI,

 

 

Black metal flash hiders were not included with the Magpul PTS ACR’s being distributed and retailed in the US in order to fully comply with US Customs import regulations.

 

The airsoft Magpul PTS ACR Masada was designed to be as authentic to the actual ACR as possible including the replication of the barrel quick change interface. Due to manufacturing tolerances, some of these assemblies can exhibit slight barrel movement. Exhaustive quality control checks were performed on PTS ACR’s before shipping from the factory. Only those ACR’s found with slight barrel movement but within acceptable manufacturing specification had lock ring washers included with the gun. If the gun did not come with these washers, it was determined that they were not needed during the quality control inspection. However, it is possible that some guns with wobble was missed during inspection. If the customer does encounter this, we will provide our dealers with the lock washers for the customers that are determined to need them. The reason why lock washers were not automatically included with ACR is because installing these on ACRs that exhibit no barrel wobble may in fact damage the gun.

 

The end user customer may also contact Spartan Imports directly via our warranty program. For warranty submission details and conditions, the customer should read the Spartan Warranty Card included with their ACR or visit www.spartanimports.com.

 

Additionally, some customers have been cracking their handguards due to using improper tools to remove the retaining pin. The customer needs to use the included dummy bullet to push the handguard pin out. We will be including further written warnings regarding this issue in future shipments of ACR’s. Magpul PTS will be reinforcing that part of the handguard in future shipments. In the meantime, for the customers that purchased their ACR’s from our recent initial shipments, we will, in cooperation with Magpul PTS, temporarily extend our warranty to cover their broken handguards.

 

 

Thank you,

 

Emory Sung

 

Spartan Imports

 

 

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I wounder how A&K did when they made their own masada with quickrealese barrel without this ringwasher/problem? and the quickrealese barrel is like 99% the same as the pts one.....and had no blueprints on the RS gun.

Crapy tooling when the pts made the production setup...comes to mind.

Edited by appslapp
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I dunno, but the whole problem seems rather stupid... My A&K has never had an issue with barrel wobble. None have. Maybe it's because it's lower quality and has looser tolerances so all the parts are made oversized... :rolleyes:

 

 

 

Many people "complaining" don't actually have any barrel wobble.

I think we managed to throw a scare into ourselves, in that the C22 washer isn't required and only used to "shim" if necessary.

(Makes perfect sense.)

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I don't buy that. All sorts of manufacturers will make outlandish claims about parts being necessary 'only if x situation occurs' when really it's a part that everyone needed but they decided to cut corners. I want to like the PTS Masada, I really do. If it was around $100 or $150 less I'd buy one in a heartbeat (if only for the aftermarket support it enjoys that the A&K offering lacks), but I can't justify it at the current cost and with the issues reported.

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Many people "complaining" don't actually have any barrel wobble.

I think we managed to throw a scare into ourselves, in that the C22 washer isn't required and only used to "shim" if necessary.

(Makes perfect sense.)

 

I think it's far, far worse than anyone imagined.

 

Earlier, it seemed as if a few washers had been missed. Now it seems that tolerances are so poor that a large assembly needs to be shimmed! It's not like we're talking about a gearbox here - for this price I'd expect it to fit together OK.

 

To add insult to injury, the more shims you have, the nearer the reject pile your AEG was.

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Due to manufacturing tolerances, some of these assemblies can exhibit slight barrel movement. Exhaustive quality control checks were performed on PTS ACR's before shipping from the factory. Only those ACR's found with slight barrel movement but within acceptable manufacturing specification had lock ring washers included with the gun. If the gun did not come with these washers, it was determined that they were not needed during the quality control inspection. However, it is possible that some guns with wobble was missed during inspection.

 

Sounds like an awful amount of work for what a machine should be doing... I can't believe they need to check ALL ACRs for barrel wobbles before deciding to add washers or not. And why is there so much differences on the same factory line?!

What I can tell you for sure, is that my previous defective ACR would still had shitload of wobble even with one of those razor sharp washer. It would have needed at least 4 or 5 to start making a difference.

 

I'm increasingly concerned on the manufacturing quality of this item, really sounds like Magpul PTS dropped the ball on this.

 

 

Many people "complaining" don't actually have any barrel wobble.

 

Hum, I'm quite imaginative, but I can still make the difference between my previous ACR and the replacement I got, and I can assure you, the first one I received was batshit wobbly.

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Yours definitely had wobble. And it has since been fixed. Who else's has been confirmed to have wobble? Because out of the 3000 units sold so far, yours is the only one that I'm aware of that has been confirmed as legitimately needing correction for barrel wobble. 1 out of 3000 (though it would clearly suck to be that one guy) still doesn't establish a "pattern".

 

I've bought a LOT of high end guns over the last 22+ years. Even with guns that were completely comprised of parts from the same manufacturer, there were still times in which I did, and times I didn't need shims/washers. That just happens. I've handled about 4 or 5 different A&K Masadas so far (I'm talking about A&K here, not PTS). One had noticeable barrel wobble, another had slight barrel wobble, and the other 2-3 were fine. Did I conclude from that that this is endemic to all A&K Masadas? No, because you shouldn't your beliefs on an entire product line of thousands of units based exclusively on your exposure to 3 or 4 of the products. You can certainly establish your impression and opinion based on what you've observed, but statistically speaking, you'd have to have a much larger sample group in order to make any real factual conclusion on the matter.

 

An official release on this issue will be forth coming from PTS, as apparently 1 defective barrel assembly out of 3000 dictates that. But in a nut shell, as of the second batch of ACRs, all ACR barrel assemblies will undergo additional machining (regardless of whether or not they needed it) in order to increase tolerances and make them to the same spec, thereby requiring all the new barrel assemblies in the second batch ACRs to have shims/washers.

 

If you currently have an ACR that does not have shims, you more than likely (99% likely) do not need washers/shims. When the accessory barrel assemblies come out soon (like the 10.5" and 11.5" versions), they will have washers included in case you need them.

Edited by uscmCorps
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I wonder how many people 'disappointed' by the quality of the gun have actually handled one of these, nonetheless even own one. Is this gun the Second Coming of Christ? No. It was the internet who made it seem so perfect, not Magpul.

 

 

Saying Magpul "dropped the ball" is taking a big leap in the 'assumptions department'. Chill out, people.

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Yours definitely had wobble. And it has since been fixed. Who else's has been confirmed to have wobble? Because out of the 3000 units sold so far, yours is the only one that I'm aware of that has been confirmed as legitimately needing correction for barrel wobble. 1 out of 3000 (though it would clearly suck to be that one guy) still doesn't establish a "pattern".

 

I can't agree more about making generalities based on a few items only. And thus the reason why I said I was "increasingly concerned", and not condemning the whole assembly line. This only involves my opinion so far, but I have been rather disappointed with both Magpul PTS and eHobby Asia.

 

First because I received the defective ACR as everyone knows about, then because I was accused by eHobby Asia of being responsible for this in quite rude terms, then because the whole replacement process cost me about an additional 80$ and a month of waiting, and finally because I got for replacement a used ACR, that has obviously been opened by someone, shipped in the same box of my previous ACR, with a cutout serial number taped to the box.

I might be "1 in 3000", but honestly, I felt they treated my case like I was "1 in 10".

 

 

Edit: USMC, yeah, got bad rep too somehow lol.

Edited by Ycare
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I got my Masada (SN-MPTS1159) in FDE today. I can't say I got quite what I was expecting. I have read that the Masada is one of the most comfortable and ergonomic AEGs out there, and that it is very nice to shoulder. I have also read that the Masada is one of the most real feeling AEGs out there. I'm not sure I agree with these two statements.

 

The Problems

-The top rail seems to be a bit strange, as I can only lock my 553 down in certain places.

-There are mold lines everywhere, which kind of disturbs me. It honestly looks like an Echo 1 G36C or something.

-The plastic does not seem to be of the same quality as other Magpul items.

-The barrel and handguard both wobble a bit, which has an end result of making the barrel seem like it wobbles a lot.

-The Masada, as others have reported, does NOT take old version PMAGs. They won't fit into the magwell. G&P M4 midcaps seem to seat fine, though.

-The motor is a bit whiny, not too bad though.

 

Enjoyable Aspects

-The pistol grip is quite nice, and the position of the fire selector, bolt release, and mag release are nice as well.

-The firing sound is nice despite the motor whine, giving a cool -CLANK- noise with each shot.

 

 

As you can seem, I am not 100% pleased with my purchasing. In the beginning I was expecting a LOT. In the past few weeks, my expectations plummeted due to reports on this forum and others. When I opened the box up, my expectations were relatively low, however I was still a bit disappointed.

 

For $450 plus $75 shipping, one would assume they are buying a very high quality AEG. I don't believe that I have received that... sad.gif

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I can't agree more about making generalities based on a few items only. And thus the reason why I said I was "increasingly concerned", and not condemning the whole assembly line. This only involves my opinion so far, but I have been rather disappointed with both Magpul PTS and eHobby Asia.

 

First because I received the defective ACR as everyone knows about, then because I was accused by eHobby Asia of being responsible for this in quite rude terms, then because the whole replacement process cost me about an additional 80$ and a month of waiting, and finally because I got for replacement a used ACR, that has obviously been opened by someone, shipped in the same box of my previous ACR, with a cutout serial number taped to the box.

I might be "1 in 3000", but honestly, I felt they treated my case like I was "1 in 10".

I totally understand the frustration behind what you went through. Being 1 in 3000 doesn't make you feel any better about your own personal situation. After all, you still have to deal with it. I just think it's important to point out that the majority of the frustrations you dealt with while going through the warranty process had little to do with PTS. True, it was them that manufactured the piece in the first place, however in accordance with the warranty they did follow through on their responsibilities.

 

I'm aware of all the PTS discussions on your case and I know that they didn't outright accuse you of damaging it. The hypothesis that the user may have accidentally damaged the assembly was certainly discussed as a possibility, but it wasn't the only scenario that was considered. The chance that it was due to a manufacturing error was definitely a serious consideration and concern. I can't speak for eHobbyAsia. If they told you you'd be getting a brand new gun, then they were not familiar with the warranty process and they were in error for promising you that. And if they were impolite to you or accused you of anything, again, that is on them. I'm sorry you were treated that way. I'd hate to be treated in that manner too. But I do know that PTS was cordial and professional during all the exchanges they had with you.

 

I would say that your original box should probably have been discarded and a new one provided would have been appropriate in this matter, and I'll certainly relay that to PTS. These boxes aren't really designed for being shipped back and forth across the world multiple times (IMO). The additional shipping fees is also unfortunate, but as it was pointed out, these are the risks any one takes when buying things on the gray market. I take the same gamble with anything I buy from abroad rather than a local distributor. And in most circumstances that gamble pays off, and I don't have to send anything back to the retailer I bought it from. But it has happened in the past with stuff I've bought from foreign countries. And when it does come up, I too have to pay shipping fees that I would not normally incur had I gone through a local retailer. Anyway, I'm sorry the process dealing with the retailer was frustrating took more time than anyone would have wanted. That's certainly not ideal for the consumer. But I do know that PTS didn't skip a beat on their end and handled everything according to their limited warranty.

 

As for anyone else that has issues with their guns while using them within the guidelines described in the included warranty, definitely get in touch with the retailer you bought it from ASAP. If it's a legitimate issue, it will be addressed.

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The Problems

-The top rail seems to be a bit strange, as I can only lock my 553 down in certain places.

-There are mold lines everywhere, which kind of disturbs me. It honestly looks like an Echo 1 G36C or something.

-The plastic does not seem to be of the same quality as other Magpul items.

-The barrel and handguard both wobble a bit, which has an end result of making the barrel seem like it wobbles a lot.

-The Masada, as others have reported, does NOT take old version PMAGs. They won't fit into the magwell. G&P M4 midcaps seem to seat fine, though.

-The motor is a bit whiny, not too bad though.

Interesting.

- Is the 553 a real 553 or a replica? I have a real 553 and I'll check it on my upper rail.

- Definitely document the mold lines with pictures, etc. It's important to have that evidence available to further investigate it. If the factory casting or cleaning up the casts is dropping the ball, it's important for PTS to know this.

- The plastics to me feel comparable to other Magpul PTS plastics. But that's my thoughts on it. YMMV

- Interestingly, the real ACR has a little bit of flex to it too. I noticed this at SHOT Show this year.

- Regarding the non-compatibility with old PMAGs, I'll have to test my own. I didn't recall there being an issue. So it would be interesting to investigate this some more and report back to PTS on this.

- The motor being whiny, isn't that apparent to me. But it seems this is a YMMV.

 

All in all, interesting observations. I'm certainly going to look into the production samples I have to make comparisons.

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Well so far in terms of absolute failures while running a proper voltage and discharge rate battery, my gun is the only one to exhibit the kind of disappointment that people seem to get the impression of plaguing the MASADA. So 1 gun out of 3000 (Although Spartan Imports tells me the number is FAR lower) isn't too bad, but still I expect more from PTS.

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After receiving mine I can safely say that I love it. Most of the problems everyone is talking about seem to be either greatly exaggerated or fabrications. It seems on par with other guns of similar price, a lot of vfc guns have minor niggles that need working out at first. I think people just need to hate on it because it's magpul. Although the old pmags definitely don't work and wgc shipped me 4 of them instead of the m-versions that I ordered(which is annoying).

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Well so far in terms of absolute failures while running a proper voltage and discharge rate battery, my gun is the only one to exhibit the kind of disappointment that people seem to get the impression of plaguing the MASADA. So 1 gun out of 3000 (Although Spartan Imports tells me the number is FAR lower) isn't too bad, but still I expect more from PTS.

I'm not sure who told you it was less than that number (feel free to PM me a name at Spartan), but I know for a fact that the number produced in the first production run is 3000+/-. The number that's been imported into the US via normal distributor channels has not been ideal, due to US Customs constantly modifying import regulations. But they are gradually making their way in.

 

As far as expecting more from PTS, do you mean as a whole? Or specifically your situation with the product you bought? Because if your "proper voltage and discharge rate battery" failure, is still 1 out of 3000 ... that's still less than 0.000333% reported failures for that particular issue. Even if it wasn't 3000 ... let's say it was 1000 units made and sold so far, that's still less than 0.1% failure rate. Like with YCare, for an issue to actually occur with your gun, is understandably really frustrating regardless of the fact that you're in the absolute tiniest percentile of most major product launches. Because in the end, that statistic doesn't do you much good. And I'm in no way trying to undermine nor belittle your current predicament as it's something I think we can all relate to should it have happened to anyone of us. I'm just trying to inject a little fairness into the discussion: that there have been an extremely small handful of isolated cases in which something has gone wrong. And for those this happened to, it's a real, genuine, PITA. But statistically, the percentage of issues that have actually occurred in the first batch are extremely low. It just seems like the fear mongers are drumming up a lot of public fear and hysteria based on very little evidence to imply that these issues are rampant ... when they're not. Can no one else see this? :huh:

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The Problems

 

-The Masada, as others have reported, does NOT take old version PMAGs. They won't fit into the magwell. G&P M4 midcaps seem to seat fine, though.

-The motor is a bit whiny, not too bad though.

 

 

 

Although the old pmags definitely don't work.

 

 

Check out a few pages back. There is a fix. My older PMAGs works now.

 

 

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