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Scuffer

MagPul PTS MASADA ACR

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STAR is ARES. ARES is STAR. Same company, different name. PTS are talking *badger*s.

 

No, most definitely not the same company, from everything I've been repeated told. And I work with distributors for both companies and the ACR has come up more than once.

 

I don't think STAR is involved, if only because when ARES split off, they took most of the R&D capacity with them as the OEM.

 

The hopup rubber looks ARES, but parts OEMs are widely shared in the industry. There are various design points that are STAR (and now ARES) like, but I think some people are having a bit of trouble wrapping their head around the idea that someone might clone a non-TM mechbox for once. If PTS is cherry picking features, they're doing a pretty good job.

 

I'll raise the issue again, but if there is an ARES-origin to the PTS mechbox above, there might be a couple Non-Disclosure Agreements in place.

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No, most definitely not the same company, from everything I've been repeated told. And I work with distributors for both companies and the ACR has come up more than once.

 

I don't think STAR is involved, if only because when ARES split off, they took most of the R&D capacity with them as the OEM.

 

The hopup rubber looks ARES, but parts OEMs are widely shared in the industry. There are various design points that are STAR (and now ARES) like, but I think some people are having a bit of trouble wrapping their head around the idea that someone might clone a non-TM mechbox for once. If PTS is cherry picking features, they're doing a pretty good job.

 

I'll raise the issue again, but if there is an ARES-origin to the PTS mechbox above, there might be a couple Non-Disclosure Agreements in place.

 

ARES is essentially a HK-based STAR - though STAR was based in Japan, they had no manufacturing presence there, it was all done in China (under the supervision of STAR's office in HK, which became ARES when they split from STAR.

 

Crack open a STAR AEG and an ARES AEG of the same model - Identical.

 

Anyhow, that gearbox in the PTS is ARES, no doubt at all.

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It's entirely possible that PTS got parts from Ares or the OEM Ares gets their internal parts from.

 

The bucking, motor, cylinder and bushing/bearings are the same Ares uses, the shell however is not. It's similar in design, but Ares makes all their shells black.

 

So far I'm not disappointed with it, I don't like it in black, but otherwise it's a beautiful gun. Regardless of the internals, they will be swapped with something better when I get mine.

Edited by Van-Kun

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It's entirely possible that PTS got parts from Ares or the OEM Ares gets their internal parts from.

 

The bucking, motor, cylinder and bushing/bearings are the same Ares uses, the shell however is not. It's similar in design, but Ares makes all their shells black.

 

So far I'm not disappointed with it, I don't like it in black, but otherwise it's a beautiful gun. Regardless of the internals, they will be swapped with something better when I get mine.

 

I have an ARES UMP here in bits to sort out compression issues, and the gearbox is bare metal. The STAR SCAR-L I had in (to sort compression issues, quelle surprise) also had a bare metal gearbox.

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DarkLite is right, they can be found in both bare metal and black painted versions. Ive seen and owned both myself so i wouldnt mark that down as any proof its not ares/star just yet...

 

Van-Kun, What are ya gonna swap the internals out with? The gears and piston etc etc are all well and good, but what if this breaks much like a lot of the StAres do across those 2 little allen keys, your pretty much *froitcagio* when it comes to replacing te shell i reckon. :(

 

Still, I look forward to seeing it in more detail anyway, hoping to be proved wrong. :)

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ARES is essentially a HK-based STAR - though STAR was based in Japan, they had no manufacturing presence there, it was all done in China (under the supervision of STAR's office in HK, which became ARES when they split from STAR.

 

The way you're wording things is a little confusing. It seems like you recognize that ARES and STAR are two separate companies, but you're suggesting they might as well be the same because their products are alike?

 

Crack open a STAR AEG and an ARES AEG of the same model - Identical.

 

Having cracked opened both STAR M4 and the new ARES M4, that's not the case. While it is true that older ARES products, closer to the original separation between the two companies, are basically identical to STAR, it's also true that ARES is progressively refining older STAR designs. The differences are small but growing (M4 hopup is no longer locked into the gearbox, for one), especially given that STAR has products ARES does not and vice-versa.

 

Anyhow, that gearbox in the PTS is ARES, no doubt at all.

 

Because it's obviously impossible for anyone else to copy the features of a STAR or ARES gearbox?

 

This thread is hilarious. You have usmcCorps, who's in close contact with Magpul PTS, saying it's not ARES. You have me, who's in close contact with ARES, saying it's not ARES. The only people suggesting it's ARES are people who seem to not likes ARES and am worried about the gun being ARES, despite the reviewer of this thread, Scuffer, having nothing bad to say about the sample he has on hand.

Edited by The Saint

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I gotta say I am most impressed. Finally we are seeing R E A L innovation.

 

Seeing how it is built, I suppose the GBB "dropin kit" will be an entire lower receiver.

 

I have some questions regarding the hopup unit.

 

Am I right in that this hopup unit will not accept other nubs? Is the nub replaceable at all? Or it is so fine there won't be need for that?:)

Were there any air sealing issues?

 

Thanks!

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This thread is hilarious. You have usmcCorps, who's in close contact with Magpul PTS, saying it's not ARES. You have me, who's in close contact with ARES, saying it's not ARES. The only people suggesting it's ARES are people who seem to not likes ARES and am worried about the gun being ARES, despite the reviewer of this thread, Scuffer, having nothing bad to say about the sample he has on hand.

Actually I think it's more that there are certain people who don't like Magpul PTS. Haters gonna hate. Nothing you can do about it. Personally, I don't care who makes it so long as they make it well, and consistently so. I'm holding all speculation until the product comes out and I'm using it.

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Well i neither hate Magpul (actually a magpul junkie if im honest) or Ares, (I have their Tavor and Scar)

 

but it has to be said, if the release version is the same as this, then it is a little disapointing, not a total piece of ######, but disapointing. they appear to have dropped a few features they claimed would be present in this, features that made it different and interesting, but now its just another AEG really, and not even an accurate ACR replica.

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As far as I know, it does not itend to be an ACR (which is now belongs to Remington and Bushmaster again AFAIK) replica. It's a Masada of Magpul, before it was sold and became ACR. So Magpul couldn't even make a replica of ACR because they don't possess the rights for it.

(I'm sure there are manufacturers who are already storming Bushmaster and Remington for the rights.:D)

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, I read about this way back.:)

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As far as I know, it does not itend to be an ACR (which is now belongs to Remington and Bushmaster again AFAIK) replica. It's a Masada of Magpul, before it was sold and became ACR. So Magpul couldn't even make a replica of ACR because they don't possess the rights for it.

(I'm sure there are manufacturers who are already storming Bushmaster and Remington for the rights.:D)

The replica they're making is the final version of the Masada while it was still in Magpul's hands. The ACR went through a couple small changes when Magpul started working with Bushmaster and Remington. That doesn't mean Magpul PTS can't or won't make an ACR down the road ... simply that getting the rights to do so, might be more complicated and involved than doing the Masada. I am not aware of plans to make the ACR at this time, but who knows what's cooking behind the curtain.

 

Why does it say 'Magpul Ind stries?'

Good catch. That happens sometimes with Prototype samples. This particular sample unit was never meant to be reviewed. Cybergun was trying to drum up potential sales and started passing around their sample that was only supposed to be displayed at trade shows. The final version will have correct engravings.

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They are 100% NOT compatible.

 

 

Thats a fail. So next question is, with the available accesories and the updated charging handle location, is this new, more expensive PTS Masada worth having over a cheaper yet slightly outdated G&P Masada?

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Thats a fail. So next question is, with the available accesories and the updated charging handle location, is this new, more expensive PTS Masada worth having over a cheaper yet slightly outdated G&P Masada?

You're kind of out of the loop dude. The A&K Masada and Magpul PTS Masada were developed independently (something that will be obvious once this is released and compared side by side with the A&K Masada). Furthermore, why should Magpul PTS base their rifle over a competitor's product when they're developing something that far exceeds the scope of what the A&K was ever meant to deliver? Several different manufacturers have developed different versions of the same gun in the past. The company that produces the best replica is typically the company that establishes the new standard. Another point, is that the Magpul PTS is as accurate to the RS as an AEG can be, whereas the A&K's are based off photos (though very well done). I see no fail here. Simply that a company is producing the best quality replica they can.

 

If the PTS Masada is going to be worth the higher cost over the A&K/G&P Masada ... time will tell. No one can definitively answer that at this time except for those that have actually used it.

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I think the Magpul version will outsell and outlast the G&P/ A&K mainly because it has the official magpul logo for bragging wrights and wanting to look cool ect..

 

In all honesty though i think this one WILL be worth getting because of the modular system thats going to allow quick changes of barrels and stocks just like the real thing (well as close too) even if it does cost a bit more than average.

 

 

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That is definitely an Ares/Star gearbox.

 

Givaways are the 2 allen screws in the magwell, (and a horribly weak area for both star and ares in the past as the gearbox suffers the famous "front end crack" right through these holes. never heard of that. then again shooting 500+fps you can kill a lot of gearboxes. not saying that you do, but I have never had a gearbox that failed me, besides a stock CA after 20 rounds.

The gearbox screws, so does Cyma and Dboys on various models

The Silver cylinder, other Manufactures have them as well, even have a TM that has it.

The blueish clear hopup rubber, Guarder has them to, and a few japanese airsoft parts manufacturers

The Scar'esque quick change hopup/barrel. nothing special purely design base, compared to the RS of the ACR and SCAR.

The Mixture of bearings and solids, ala Tavor, Scar, etc etc. got me a few chinese who had the same, one of them was an AGM. but that must be bad, right?

The motor is also the same as an Ares/Star one, including the soldering. just like almost any other AEG using the same motor. If it's Ares, why hasn't it been wrapped?

The quick change spring system is 100% identical. can be done by any manufacturer, but yes it is a true Ares feature.

Even the linear spring is the same one used in the Ares/Star guns. yes nobody else uses that, o wait ...:D

The Microswitch trigger, well yes, which is in fact one of the best features of Ares, it is to me.

Even the captive pin in the upper recevier is the same as the one securing the lower receiver to the Ares/Star Scar. that kind of system is also quite common with some external M4 bodies.

I have Magpul PTS body that has it. And that is not an Ares.

 

 

hate to say it, but Frontiers got shot down months ago for telling people this was going to be a Star/Ares gearbox and in actual fact, he was right. could still not be

 

Im looking forward to seeing the internal of this gearbox, so far its looking like my A&K with G&G internals is as good if not better, and a lot cheaper. not really sure, this is personal preferences.

but how much did that cost you altogether?

 

No sign of any mosfet or electronic fire control, wasnt that one of Magpuls claims for this new Masada/ACR? or am i mis remembering? just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it isn't there.

if it was a TSI size mosfet, i would probably be external.:D

 

See how easy it is to overrule your findings? Nothing personal, but it's the same as saying "every gearbox is an exact TM copy."

In the end it could still be an Ares, personally I don't care, as long as it works.

 

I think re-reading uscmCorps and the saints posts would be quite interesting.

 

just because it looks the same, doesn't mean it is the same.;)

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My thoughts on how this will fare over time are that it will depend on realistic failure rate and availablity of Magpul aftermarket parts.

 

They will really fall down if there isn't a surplus of the additional RIS kits/stocks/lowers etc for this, as that undermines the point of a modular airsoft gun. Another point will be cost - ok £400ish is standard fair for a mid-high spec AEG, but how much will the aftermarket parts be? If they are prohibitively expensive then that isn't going to encourage people to have a range of different bits and alter their gun depending of where/how they are shooting.

The failure rate issue is obvious and standard for all airsoft guns, but if they come with any flaw out of the box (I couldn't find any), or something that rears it's head after a certain amount of rounds etc, then there will be a lot of critism over the cost to reliability ratio.

 

For me, I've already decided that I want one, hell I even know exactly how I'm going to set it up to get the best out of the platform in the area that I skirmish. That said I'm not naive to think that this is the be all and end all of airsoft guns, but based on my use of one it certainly seemed up to the job in terms of ability and build/design. So with that in mind I can't see any reason why these wouldn't serve people very well as a skirmishing tool, which is pretty much the idea isn't it?

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Brief in game report

 

Ok, we had some lovely weather on Sunday and it proved to be the perfect day to run around with this shooting plastic at people!

 

Using ‘Blaster’ 0.2g BBs it chrono’d at 340FPS on a Guarder Chronograph, after that I set the hop, which involved a small tweak of the hop cog/wheel and the BBs where flying flat and straight. Unfortunately I didn’t have the facility to do any kind of scientific accuracy tests so it was straight into game. For the first game it was used by a team mate, while I used it for the afternoons games, firing roughly 2000 rounds over 3 hours.

 

The site (SWAT Urban in Chester) is a mix of terrain from open space and roads through to tiny rooms inside a maze of buildings. Initially I had my concerns using this, simply on a size issue – I usually use a 10.5/sliding stock M4 at this site due to how tight some of the buildings are, so I was expecting some issues wielding a 14.5/fixed stock gun. As it turns out, I was wrong – I think mainly due to the ergonomics of the gun. I’m 5’10 tall and the fixed stock was comfortable and natural to shoulder without being restrictively large, helping with this was the low weight of some of the plastic parts. The gun was tested and fed perfectly with the following Hi-Cap magazines – ICS/CA/JG/DBoys and PTS Mid-Caps.

 

Actually using it was a pleasure – snappy trigger response on semi and a good high ROF on the full auto bursts, inside the buildings it proved more than manoeuvrable enough while outside the range was very good, holding it’s own against anything of a comparable barrel size/power.

 

During my 2000+ rounds, I had 2 stoppages – the first semi ‘locked’, in that depressing the trigger would not do anything, switching to fully auto it fired as normal, then back to semi and it carried on working fine - I have no explanation for this, perhaps a look at the internals may explain although I put it down to a freak occurrence and it didn’t happen again nor did it happen when my team mate was using it in the morning. The second stoppage was from a mis-shaped BB getting stuck in the hop rubber; I popped the upper open and pushed out the bad BB, closed it up and carried on with no further problems.

 

Overall I was impressed with this in use; it did everything it said on the tin - kept up with the pace of play and felt very nice to use. I could see many players happily running these without issues, there’s always going to be small,basic tweaks that people will do (hop rubber/battery) to get what they feel is the most out of/change the performance of a stock gun, but in this form it really didn’t need anything doing and performed admirably particularly in the medium to long range outside games where I was out ranging most other AEGs.

 

Here’s some brief footage of it in game (used by a teammate) the footage is from a cheap gun cam so not amazing for which I apologise also ignore us messing about at the end

 

VIDEO!

 

P1011025.jpg

 

 

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See how easy it is to overrule your findings? Nothing personal, but it's the same as saying "every gearbox is an exact TM copy."

In the end it could still be an Ares, personally I don't care, as long as it works.

 

I think re-reading uscmCorps and the saints posts would be quite interesting.

 

just because it looks the same, doesn't mean it is the same.;)

 

You haven't overruled my findings at all, infact only confirmed you must not be as familiar with these things I am. That's not intended to offend you, but my job requires me to look at gearboxes all day, everyday. I am very familiar with the differences between one brand and an other. Hence the list of similarity's i posted.

 

like Ares motors being wrapped, not the case, only in the Tavor have i seen this, and not even my own tavor, This is also the same distinct grey colour seen on the Star and Ares guns, Tavor included.

guarder rubbers are clear, not blue tinted, Ares rubbers are bluey clear.

the screws are not the same a dboys, JG, Cyma etc etc they are the same as Star/Ares.

Your magpul PTS body pins are nothing like in these pics, yours use a spring loaded pin to retain the receiver pin.

 

You fail to take into consideration the sheer number of similarity's that combined make a good case for this thing being an Ares/Star Build, and instead try to rubbish them individually, all be it you were wrong on most of them.

 

Sorry to take the thread off a little on a side road though guys, I just felt i should respond to this as its directed at me in particular. :)

 

 

PS: On your Question about my own Masada, It was 170 plus about 50-70 for the G&G box.

 

In total ive put maybe 280-300 in altogether including the shorter barrel, MBUS, peq etc, only for that money i have top end internals, mosfet, G&P motor, Madbull barrell etc etc

 

I'm not against this gun at all, and if its reasonably priced I could pick one up, possibly, but its definitely not living up to the hype created last November in that near legendary thread.

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Thanks for all the info so far scuffer,

 

No chance of this being cracked open then is there? would be brilliant if you could. :D

 

For the "Is/isn't Ares" arguament though, that stoppage is a signature of Ares, its caused by a transfer switch inside the gun that completes the link between actual trigger and microswitch, its a common Scar and Tavor issue, Ive had many many PMs here about how to fix it. :D

 

Make what you will from that though, It may well be something else, but id highly doubt it.

 

 

 

During my 2000+ rounds, I had 2 stoppages – the first semi 'locked', in that depressing the trigger would not do anything, switching to fully auto it fired as normal, then back to semi and it carried on working fine - I have no explanation for this, perhaps a look at the internals may explain although I put it down to a freak occurrence and it didn't happen again nor did it happen when my team mate was using it in the morning. The second stoppage was from a mis-shaped BB getting stuck in the hop rubber; I popped the upper open and pushed out the bad BB, closed it up and carried on with no further problems.

 

Overall I was impressed with this in use; it did everything it said on the tin - kept up with the pace of play and felt very nice to use. I could see many players happily running these without issues, there's always going to be small,basic tweaks that people will do (hop rubber/battery) to get what they feel is the most out of/change the performance of a stock gun, but in this form it really didn't need anything doing and performed admirably particularly in the medium to long range outside games where I was out ranging most other AEGs.

 

Here's some brief footage of it in game (used by a teammate) the footage is from a cheap gun cam so not amazing for which I apologise also ignore us messing about at the end

 

VIDEO!

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One way or another, the truth will come out. I don't suspect in the least that Magpul PTS is lying to me on this issue. Once the gun comes out and more people have direct access to it, you can't hide the evidence. If it turns out that it is indeed Ares, that'd be a bit embarressing for PTS given that they've firmly stated their position on this. At that point, there'd be no point believing anything they say from there on out, which is why I'm inclined to believe them on the matter ... they have too much public respect to lose by misleading people. If I were them, and they actually had gone with Ares to do the work, I'd be open about it but state that they had the entire production made to PTS' own specs and QC levels to alleviate concerns. But that's only if Ares were involved, which I'm still not convinced is the case.

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