MagPul PTS MASADA ACR

[mimesis]

Granted all this, it's still really useful to know just how similar the internals are to Ares's, because then as others have already said, known fixes for problems on the Ares Scar or Tavor can be cross-applied to the Masada.

[uscmCorps]

Absolutely.

[Ycare]

On the A&K masada you had the lock the barrellock all the way to the side to get the wobbel to stop....and the system is the same as on the magpul.

Pepole had the same problem with the A&K masada , as some of you have.

 

Now that's interesting... but I would have expected Magpul to fix that problem, especially since the replica cost twice the A&K.

 

I'll update when I get feedback from either eHobby or Magpul about this issue.

[beretta]

Ares doesn't make the stuff themselves. They have several OEM's. It's often easier, especially for tooling, for an OEM to make items in a manner they're familiar with even if it's done to a higher spec, than to relearn the process based on other OEM's designs. Just because the stuff looks like Ares, doesn't necessarily mean Ares was directly involved. Also, Ares has several partners within the company structure. It's not unheard of for a partner within an airsoft company to hook up another manufacturer with their OEM. Not saying that is what happened here ... but it's certainly a strong possibility. Regardless, of who people ultimately think did the internals, I still feel it's (as I have been saying for a while now) more important to focus on how they hold up over time. Furthermore, let's say the internals do the job better than how Ares' guns have held up in the past. It's still not safe to assume that all of Ares' guns in the future will be equally as reliable as the ACR even if you stand firm that Ares made the internals. OEM's can make parts to many different levels of specification and tolerance.

 

If people really want to stick to their guns that the internals are made by Ares that's fine and is their prerogative, but I still don't think it's conclusive to say that the internals will perform exactly as every other Ares gun has performed in the past. It's also possible that if Ares were directly involved, that they could have stepped up their game and this is a sign of things to come from that company. Who knows. VFC had a horrible time with internals initially starting with their HK416 line. Nowadays however, the VFC SR15/16 line have very decent internals OOTB.

 

Regardless of who you think made the internals, I just think it's premature to write off the product based purely off that aspect. If you're skeptical, don't buy it. Hold off for a while and let the early adopters buy them, run them hard, find out what/if any failure points exist. And then six to eight months later check back in to see how the dust has settled. If you like what you see at that point from all the months of feedback out there, allow that to bias your buying decision rather than a knee jerk reaction to what might manifest itself down the road.

 

The problem there is though, that's all wild theory based with nothing other than magpul's statement saying it wasn't Ares. and since they refuse to say who actually does make it, few people will take their statement as fact.

With more and more evidence pointing to this being an Ares, the "denial theory" is nothing more than repetitive motion now, until they come out and put people straight and say who did make it.

 

lets be clear on what exactly is signature of ares here too though, you mention the sourcing of oem parts but parts are only one connection made with typical ares guns. they have also used ares Design entirely. everything from hopup design, spring guide, underside gearbox/magwell screws etc etc. its all signature of Ares design, and not just a case of using the same gearbox internals supplier.

 

I don't see a big problem with it being an Ares myself. I'd prefer if they would say it and save all the bother, but its certainly not the sort of quality that was talked about last November when news of it broke. it was supposed to practically reinvent the wheel, but instead is just the same as everything else really. not nearly as much a disappointment of TSi's Tavor, but i think they made this out to be a lot more than it actually came to be.

 

 

Granted all this, it's still really useful to know just how similar the internals are to Ares's, because then as others have already said, known fixes for problems on the Ares Scar or Tavor can be cross-applied to the Masada.

 

 

This is true, I know a few people have been talking about signature problems seen in many other Ares guns like the leaky nozzles, semi auto lock up, poor hopup function etc but there's a wealth of information out there on what you can do to cure these problems. I'll be getting the green one as soon as its available, but i'll be doing so with the expectation of having to give it a little tuning to make it really useful.

 

 

[TheFull9]

Could it not be possible that they've just looked at a STAR/ARES AEG at some point, thought "hmm this seems like a good design", found who the originating manufacturer that supplies ARES is and gone to said company for parts? Hence no actual link to being supplied by ARES themselves, just ending up using the same design and inner bits. Seems possible to me since they've so adamantly denied that ARES are involved, yet they've come out with a product with so many similarities.

 

Meh, it looks like it's solidly built and if it'll truck along for a good few thousand rounds at ~330FPS on a 7.4 then that's all I'm ever going to be concerned with end of the day. PTS doesn't tend to just chuck out junk products, and let's face it this has taken long enough to finally arrive, not like it's just been rushed out. I'm prepared to stick down £400 that it'll all be well.

[LeftyFlip]

I've already payed my money and look forward to getting my FG ACR in the next few weeks. Just to throw my 2 cents into this ridiculously drawn out and overall pointless argument, Ckinnerly's proposal really seems pretty possible. PTS could very well have gone to one of ARES major oem's and just said do it the same but better. To be honest though, the only reason I think the argument is still going on is the hope that someone will eventually get to give a real "I told you so"

[uscmCorps]

The problem there is though, that's all wild theory based with nothing other than magpul's statement saying it wasn't Ares. and since they refuse to say who actually does make it, few people will take their statement as fact.

With more and more evidence pointing to this being an Ares, the "denial theory" is nothing more than repetitive motion now, until they come out and put people straight and say who did make it.

Honestly ... I don't think PTS is really too concerned about what people think the source of their internals are. All this conjecture and assumptions have had zero affect on their sales. If you feel strongly that it's Ares, that's up to you. If you want to go around and tell everyone the internals are made by Ares, well freedom of speech is a wonderful thing. So have at it.

 

You can't make everyone happy. I'm okay with that. You can stick to your beliefs and I'll stick to mine. I will absolutely agree that the evidence points strongly to Ares, but there's still a shadow of a doubt. I can live with agreeing to disagree.

[AnakChan]

To be honest though, the only reason I think the argument is still going on is the hope that someone will eventually get to give a real "I told you so"

 

I think you've really summed it up here. From a practical perspective, it really doesn't matter as long as it works, and it works reliably. If players are truly deciding to buy (or not to buy) this product depending on who manufactures the mechbox; sorry to say, they are very short sighted. They're better off not buying and move on.

 

Personally I'd rather hear more about reviews/issues/capabilities of PTS' ACR in this thread instead of bickering of who manufactured the mechbox.

[BerserkDS]

Amen. This thread needs a major clean up...

[uscmCorps]

I think you've really summed it up here. From a practical perspective, it really doesn't matter as long as it works, and it works reliably. If players are truly deciding to buy (or not to buy) this product depending on who manufactures the mechbox; sorry to say, they are very short sighted. They're better off not buying and move on.

That is precisely my point.

[Gigueand]

The problem there is though, that's all wild theory based with nothing other than magpul's statement saying it wasn't Ares. and since they refuse to say who actually does make it, few people will take their statement as fact.

With more and more evidence pointing to this being an Ares, the "denial theory" is nothing more than repetitive motion now, until they come out and put people straight and say who did make it.

 

This strikes at the heart of the issue here. The real "problem" is that PTS refuses to state who builds/supplies the components for their ACR gearboxes. This, in my mind, is a bit disingenuous given they are expecting customers to pay $450 for something with no/little knowledge about a critical component of the rifle.

 

I think you've really summed it up here. From a practical perspective, it really doesn't matter as long as it works, and it works reliably. If players are truly deciding to buy (or not to buy) this product depending on who manufactures the mechbox; sorry to say, they are very short sighted. They're better off not buying and move on.

 

I have to disagree here. A major factor of why people select something like an ICS MP5 over a Cyma MP5 or a G&P M4 over a Classic Army M4 is the reliability/durability of the gearbox. Obviously externals play a significant role. Airsoft is, afterall, a giant fashion show, but nonetheless players do select their rifles based on the purported reliability of the gun's gearbox. Everyone has harped on about how CA's reliability has gone downhill over the years. We're able to do that because the Classic Army (reportedly) builds and installs their own gearbox into their own guns. They do not (again reportedly) outsource their gearboxes to some other, unknown company and just concentrate on building a pretty shell (a la PTS).

 

The whole furor over this issue stems from the fact that people are attempting to assess the potential reliability of this rifle. If PTS had come out and said "our gearboxes are made by systema" there would be a huge debate over the quality of systema boxes, their reliability, their expense, etc. At least then people would be able to assess the reliability of the gearbox based on other platforms that have those gearboxes in them. Since PTS has hinted/denied (?) that their gearbox manufacturer is Ares, people are, naturally, trying to gauge the potential reliability of the ACR off of other rifles with similar gearboxes. If PTS would definitively say who their gearbox manufacturer is or at least give customers an idea of how the gearbox construction process for the ACR works (i.e. "we order such and such parts from so and so and then so and so assembles and QC checks them, etc) this whole debate would go away or could have been avoided.

 

To be honest, I (if I had the cash) wouldn't hesitate to pick up an ACR. Gearboxes are easy enough to fix and I'd simply play with the gun until something broken. Despite this, I do like to know who actually produced the parts in my gearbox. Otherwise it is sort of like buying an AEG off of the classifieds where the seller has stated "Oh, well, it's upgraded, but I don't remember with what..."

 

Personally I'd rather hear more about reviews/issues/capabilities of PTS' ACR in this thread instead of bickering of who manufactured the mechbox.

 

This I think we both can agree on.

 

 

EDIT: AnakChan and I have taken this to PMs

Edited August 26, 2010 by Gigueand

[Ycare]

FYI, Magpul already got back to me and asked for the serial number of my replica, so I guess they most likely have a kind of traceability or batch control based on those serial numbers, which is very good to know.

 

Will update when I got more info!

[AnakChan]

FYI, Magpul already got back to me and asked for the serial number of my replica, so I guess they most likely have a kind of traceability or batch control based on those serial numbers, which is very good to know.

 

Will update when I got more info!

Mate, I hope you didn't have a replica but a real Magpul PTS . I hope it's not batch related 'cos my serial's really close to yours!

 

Hope you fix it mate.

[TheFull9]

Doubtful that there's any other company out there knocking out exact replicas of the PTS version I'd have thought?

[AnakChan]

Sorry, I was just jesting with YCare .

[Slayer750]

Hey guys, I have a question about the ACR takedown.

 

First off, is it necessary to remove the spring and spring guide before removing the gearbox from the ACR and opening it? If not, would removal be helpful, as when the GB shell is opened stuff won't pop out and get tossed around to due the absence of spring tension?

 

Next, does the barrel wobble affect accuracy?

 

Finally, do all of the ACRs have their hop nubs slightly angled to one side (messing up accuracy) like (I think) sacairsnoopy's?

 

Thanks. Sorry if this was hard to read.

[sacairsoftsn00py]

Removing the spring guide and main spring is necessary as it will make things less complicated. If you want to make take down harder then you can open the gearbox. Then take out the spring guide.

 

I'm sure the wobble will affect full auto accuracy some. Talk about realism! lol

[Ycare]

Next, does the barrel wobble affect accuracy?

 

Finally, do all of the ACRs have their hop nubs slightly angled to one side (messing up accuracy) like (I think) sacairsnoopy's?

 

Thanks. Sorry if this was hard to read.

 

Well, with the barrel real tight, the up and down play is only about a mili, so if you do rest your barrel on a support while shooting, instead of the handguard, you might see a little difference on 40m shootings.

But if the barrel moved like mine did when I first received it, then shooting while running, and taking support on barrel will mess up pretty bad your accuracy, yes.

 

My hopup bucking looked pretty in line to me, but I didn't have the chance yet to test it on a range because of my barrel problem.

Edited August 26, 2010 by Ycare

[Slayer750]

Removing the spring guide and main spring is necessary as it will make things less complicated. If you want to make take down harder then you can open the gearbox. Then take out the spring guide.

 

I'm sure the wobble will affect full auto accuracy some. Talk about realism! lol

Thanks. And lol.

 

Well, with the barrel real tight, the up and down play is only about a mili, so if you do rest your barrel on a support while shooting, instead of the handguard, you might see a little difference on 40m shootings.

But if the barrel moved like mine did when I first received it, then shooting while running, and taking support on barrel will mess up pretty bad your accuracy, yes.

 

My hopup bucking looked pretty in line to me, but I didn't have the chance yet to test it on a range because of my barrel problem.

Thank you.

 

So, is Magpul PTS going to replace your ACR because of the barrel wobble? Or are you just informing them of the problem?

 

 

[Ycare]

Thank you.

 

So, is Magpul PTS going to replace your ACR because of the barrel wobble? Or are you just informing them of the problem?

 

 

 

 

I am unsure at this point, but the problem with mine doesn't seem to be "just" the wobble. The wobble is more likely to be a symptom of a manufacturing defect in the Quick Release system of the barrel itself I believe.

Every time I remove the barrel to check it and screw it back in, I'm able to screw it a little further, without even trying to push hard at all, and Q can confirm I'm far from an athletic built. I think something is stripping in the screwing part, probably a material problem being too soft, but I'm honestly not sure yet since nothing is apparent when I remove the barrel, and I'm now too scared to try removing it again.

 

Hope this clarifies my issue that apparently no one else is experiencing yet.

[AnakChan]

Err...I'm actually "AnakChan" here, but feel free to call me Q too. And yes I can confirm he's "far from athletic build" .

 

I haven't checked on mine (and hearing about yours, I'm somewhat reluctant to perform a frequent take-down of the barrel). However I'll see what I can check on mine this weekend.

[Ycare]

Err...I'm actually "AnakChan" here, but feel free to call me Q too. And yes I can confirm he's "far from athletic build" .

 

Oops, sorry AnakChan, but hey don't be rude, I'm not that far... just need a little work out on the weekend

[sacairsoftsn00py]

The whine was starting to irritate me. My buddy Dagger hooked me up with some Systema gears....so much better. Not whining about the gun being whiny anymore

[WTF?Shane]

I don't own one of these beauties yet, but I'd like to ask anyone on here that owns one and runs NiMH or NiCad batteries, what style of batteries fit in this gun? I am looking to run a 9.6v battery, so I'm guessing a mini or nunchuck type battery would be best?

[sacairsoftsn00py]

mini type will work best