Airsoft sites banning propane?

[Stealthbomber]

I e mailed H the site manager at ground zero about this and this is what he says

 

'The way I see it is if a can of airsoft gas goes bang on site, people can pursue the company that made it. If a propane tank goes bang, or the mag filled with it does, then they will just say it was never meant to be used in that application and then the customer comes after me'

 

The tanks he means are the blue cans you can get from most DIY shops and use an adaptor with some silicone oil put in them.

 

curlyboy

That is about the most retarded excuse I've ever heard.

 

It's like if Avis or Hertz told people not to wear seatbelts because they can't be responsible for the quality of seatbelts that Ford or VW produce.

 

 

FWIW, I've had a can of green gas explode on me.

I packed a bunch of stuff, including a can of gas, into a holdall, took it to a skirmish and then left it in my car boot for, erm, a number of weeks.

When I finally retrieved the holdall I found the can had a big split down the side and the base of the can was also bulging outward.

So, yeah. We certainly DO get hot enough temperatures in the UK to cause green gas cannisters to rupture.

 

 

I'd be interested to see any evidence to support the idea that Bernzomatic style cans pose any significant risk.

Until such time that I do, I'm gonna carry on using them in preference to some rinky-dink cannister made in Taiwan or god-knows where and I'm gonna carry on believing that any site that bans the use of propane is only doing so for selfish financial reasons.

 

 

Lastly, I can't help wondering how Z1 would know what gas a player is using.

If I turn up on site with my mags all gasses up with illegalz pr0payn how are they gonna know?

Do they force players to stand in a line and empty mags then refill them with their sweet, sweet, fluffy-bunny gas?

[renegadecow]

If a propane tank goes bang, or the mag filled with it does, then they will just say it was never meant to be used in that application and then the customer comes after me'

Man, that's ultra lame. IF the magazine blows, its the manufacturer of the magazine at fault (because the 2 gasses are no different). IF the tank blows, the manufacturer of the can is to blame. IF the propane can is the one that blows, how can the propane manufacturer say "not meant for that purpose" when using them for airsoft guns doesn't affect the can exploding or not? Plugged up to a barbecue or a gun, it's still a tank of propane and if it blows, it blows (not that they even blow up in the first place thanks to the overpressure release valve).

 

What they should provide is a signed waiver for participants who will be bringing their own propane so that they don't get to sue anyone should anything go wrong with the gas. Plain and simple.

[The General]

Man, that's ultra lame. IF the magazine blows, its the manufacturer of the magazine at fault (because the 2 gasses are no different). IF the tank blows, the manufacturer of the can is to blame. IF the propane can is the one that blows, how can the propane manufacturer say "not meant for that purpose" when using them for airsoft guns doesn't affect the can exploding or not? Plugged up to a barbecue or a gun, it's still a tank of propane and if it blows, it blows (not that they even blow up in the first place thanks to the overpressure release valve).

 

What they should provide is a signed waiver for participants who will be bringing their own propane so that they don't get to sue anyone should anything go wrong with the gas. Plain and simple.

 

But but but... they want people to buy the gas they sell.

[MCXL]

One factor here in the united states, (or at least in Minnesota) It is illegal to discharge propane indoors, (unless you have some sort of special permit IIRC).

 

If your using green gas, it's not as face value illegal, because 'It's not propane, it's green gas' If you know what I mean. Because of this all the local places don't allow propane indoors, but on an outdoor field it's fine.

 

The smell thing is a crock BTW, the US DOT approved green gas canisters we have here now are scented like *fruitcage* kitchen cleaner, and it is REALLY STRONG. like LEMON+BUGSPRAY.

 

UGH.

[Stealthbomber]

One factor here in the united states, (or at least in Minnesota) It is illegal to discharge propane indoors, (unless you have some sort of special permit IIRC).

 

If your using green gas, it's not as face value illegal, because 'It's not propane, it's green gas' If you know what I mean. Because of this all the local places don't allow propane indoors, but on an outdoor field it's fine.

That's a bit thin.

 

If anybody sought to bring a prosecution under that law they'd simply analyse the gas and your *albatross* would be in jail.

 

Conversely, what's to stop you printing out a label saying "MCXLs special fuzzy-bunny indoor gas" and stick it on a Bernzomatic cannister?

How is that any different from using green gas supplied in a HFC "Green Gas" cannister?

 

If sites are insisting you use airsoft gas rather than propane for the reasons you've mentioned then you are, in fact, being treated in much the same way that Z1 is trying to do.

[MCXL]

Nope, because those sites didn't sell the gas, or require it to be their green gas.

 

Green gas is different from propane because of the additives, one could very easily claim in a US court that it doesnt say its propane on the bottle, and its makeup is different then US regulation propane, therefore you weren't breaking the law.

 

If the courts really want to pony up for the expensive analysis for what is essentially a small fine, then thats ok, (won't happen though) and even so, a policy clearly stating that propane is not allowed would be protection enough for the business.

[Stealthbomber]

Nope, because those sites didn't sell the gas, or require it to be their green gas.

 

Green gas is different from propane because of the additives, one could very easily claim in a US court that it doesnt say its propane on the bottle, and its makeup is different then US regulation propane, therefore you weren't breaking the law.

Wrong on both counts.

 

Firstly, if, for example, it was illegal to punch somebody at a football match would it be okay to punch and kick them?

Of course not.

If it's illegal to release propane in an enclosed environment it will make very little difference whether it has a whiff of silicone in it as well.

It's still propane and, if you respect that law, you shouldn't be using any GBB.

 

Secondly, at the risk of sounding clichéd, ignorance is no defence in the eyes of the law.

If anybody wanted to prosecute you for illegally releasing propane in an enclosed environment then saying "I didn't know it was propane" wouldn't do you any good at all.

 

 

I can understand your not wanting to break any laws but if there is a law about releasing propane in an enclosed environment then you're just as guilty if you use green gas in a GBB or propane.

In that case you either need to stop using GBBs completely or you might as well stop poncing about and save yourself a bit of cash by using propane.

[MCXL]

Prosecuted, lol.

 

Like I said, not that kind of crime. Plus I don't care either way, I am simply telling you about previous site rules.

 

Also ignorance can be a defense here for things like this.

 

FOR EXAMPLE.

 

If I park in a no parking zone, say there are no parking signs at either end of the street pointing toward each other, and the one I am parked next to got blown off, (in a storm for instance.) Then If I get a ticket, I can say I was ignorant to that fact due to lack of notification. I will win this one, not my burden to hunt down that missing sign pole.

 

One real world example of this is I knew a... person of low moral values. He kept a can of white spray paint in his car at all times, and would park in no parking spaces at will. Whenever he would get a ticket, he would spray over a portion of the sign (generally the arrow, or the no parking). He would then send in a picture of the sign, and a small note in with the ticket saying something like "The sign was illegible, I didn't know where to park." The guy I knew got caught of course, though that was a different spray paint related incident.

 

Ive never seen green gas say on it "this is propane" and therefore I can't know without doing a gas chronograph or whatever if it is illegal or not. That of course would be an undue burden on the people.

 

The major thing in all of this though, Is it's not the player that would get the ticket, it would be the site. It's mostly aimed at keeping people from trying to set up their gas grill in the garage with the door closed in the winter, or some other retarded act.

[Stealthbomber]

Prosecuted, lol.

Indeed.

 

The whole idea is laughable.

 

That's why it's far more likely that it's sites and retailers who stir up this nonsense rather than cops intent on policing uncontrolled releases of gas.

 

As you say, any restriction is probably aimed at minimising the possibility of explosions caused by the build up of gas or people getting asphyxiated when they fall asleep next to their patio heater or barbeque.

 

The crux of the matter, however, is that you ARE breaking this law by using green gas (and you know you are) so, in that case, what's up with just painting a can of Propane and saving yourself a few bucks?

[Danke]

Why bother with painting a can, how about a vinyl sticker or sleeve that says "Not Propane" that you can re-use?

[Samm]

Or one of those dummy flashbangs.

[Docv400]

I think this has been 'done to death' now

 

All I'll add is that Argos are doing twin-packs of the Coleman propane (2 x 465g bottles) for £12.99.

Cheapest Benzomatic propane (1 x 400g bottle) I've found so far is here; Hamilton gas products...

 

Fill yer boots, as they say (and your mags ).

They also say 'Vote with your feet', so if you want to use non-Airsoft branded Propane, don't go to GZ, there are many other great sites in the south coast area, and a bit further afield.

[Apex]

**Sorry we can not ship this item to the UK Mainland.**

 

and for thoese who want to know the product code on argos is, it's 340/1242

[Planemo]

I bought 2x colemans for £10.99 delivered off the Bay of E.....

[Docv400]

**Sorry we can not ship this item to the UK Mainland.**

Oooops, didn't notice that bit

Oh well, keep searching...

[Apex]

Think the bottles on ebay are the best value tbh, 2 X 465gm bottles for £10.99 works out allright in my books.

[kruck]

Yep, I'm on the 10.99 ebay ones now. I ran out of my supply of 8x coleman cans @ £3 each (sale) from camping and leisure, wish I'd ordered more now and halfords has stopped stocking the bernzomatic @ £5 each