DrewLawson Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 He was giving an example Link to post Share on other sites
Shao14 Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 He was giving an example <{POST_SNAPBACK}> But the point is an example of high FPS does not support the argument for high ROF. High FPS is good (and let's assume we always have constant high FPS through the thought experiment), but when the ROF is already 600 RPM, an additional 20 to 60 RPM is not necessary. Imagine the extreme case where your ROF is so high that your gun would shoot out all the BBs in your mag as soon as you pull your trigger in full auto (just for the sake of argument, not really possible in real physics). So now, you need to have perfect aim, or you waste all your ammo everytime you pull the trigger. But if you have perfect aim, you might as well just shoot on semi. Link to post Share on other sites
TriChrome Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Shao, you were saying an extra 60 RPM does nothing. I was saying 1 extra BB per second could be the shot that hits your target, wins the game, saves your Airsoft 'life', etc. I was then relating it to gaining 5 FPS in your gun; most people will say it will do nothing, but with 5 more FPS your BB may go that extra foot and hit your target, wins the game, saves your Airsoft 'life', etc. But if you have perfect aim, you might as well just shoot on semi. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> In an ideal world that's correct, but this is Airsoft; a very slight 5 mph breeze can drift your shot 2 feet to either side at 60 yards. That's why I use full-auto because it compensates for our guns (and their ammo) being very innacurate. Sale, you're correct in the assumption that the connectors of the fuse assembly could have been at fault, not the resistance of the fuse itself. That's another point I would like to touch on because a fuse has 2 crimped (not soldered....well on a TM at least) connections on either side of the fuse holder, then 2 pressure fit "C" shaped clamps to hold the fuse in. So right there you have 4 more connections just on the fuse that can corrode, degrade, come loose, short, etc. When you remove the fuse you get rid of those possible problem areas (along with the minor resistance). Link to post Share on other sites
Shao14 Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Shao, you were saying an extra 60 RPM does nothing. I was saying 1 extra BB per second could be the shot that hits your target, wins the game, saves your Airsoft 'life', etc. I'm saying higher ROF doesn't necessarily mean it's better. The flip side of your example is that the 1 extra BB per second could just waste the final BB right before you acquire your aim, and make you lose the game. I think there is an ideal ROF depending on your shooting style and the situation, neither higher nor lower is better. I was then relating it to gaining 5 FPS in your gun; most people will say it will do nothing, but with 5 more FPS your BB may go that extra foot and hit your target, wins the game, saves your Airsoft 'life', etc. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I have been agreeing since the beginning the higher the FPS, the better, but that has nothing to support your ROF argument. Link to post Share on other sites
Xaccers Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 I use an 11.1V li-pol battery. You bet I'll be keeping my fuse considering a short could cause my gun to explode into a ball of flame! Link to post Share on other sites
TriChrome Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 You're the exception It could also burst into flames if you charge it too much, discharge it too much, drop it, look at it wrong..... (I'm just kidding, they're not that touchy). Link to post Share on other sites
Frangible Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 I promised earlier in this thread that if ever my (or my friends' AEGs) took a nosedive because their fuses were missing then I'd come back and make a contrite apology.... They're all still working fine*... (as they have been for 3+ years) *As fine as AEGs ever work of course - jams, snappage etc aside! Link to post Share on other sites
Crispin1025 Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 In two of my guns they have geen removed, in the third which is stock I do not Link to post Share on other sites
DrewLawson Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Shao, he was making a comparison that that extra 1 bb per second could get the kill, just as having 5 extra fps could give you that extra lift to hit somebody. Do they have anything in common? No. Its just an example, such as having that extra 5mph on your car could help you avoid an accident by speeding away, or having better brakes could help you stop a foot shorter avoiding an accident. Anything in common. No. But it is a comparison Link to post Share on other sites
Shao14 Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Shao, he was making a comparison that that extra 1 bb per second could get the kill, just as having 5 extra fps could give you that extra lift to hit somebody. Do they have anything in common? No. Its just an example, such as having that extra 5mph on your car could help you avoid an accident by speeding away, or having better brakes could help you stop a foot shorter avoiding an accident. Anything in common. No. But it is a comparison <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yea, I know it was an example, but it did not contribute anything to the ROF discussion. Higher FPS being good does not mean higher ROF is good. Sure, having an extra 5mph might help you avoid an accident, but it might also make you run into an accident, which you wouldn't have otherwise. Link to post Share on other sites
sizzam Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 yes i do Link to post Share on other sites
theairsoftdude Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 There is NOTHING to be gained by operating an AEG with no fuse, and EVERYTHING to lose. Fuses blow because the current went WAY over the 15 Amps allowed by the system. If the current went over 15 Amps, it is usually because something stopped the mechanical components moving, but the motor kept drawing more and more current to try to get past the obstruction. If you have no fuse, then something else will burn out - usually either the motor or the selector plate. FUSES ARE GOOD. They let you know when there is a problem with the mechanical parts of your gun. If your fuse is blowing, there is something else wrong with your gun. Either it has crud in the gearbox, an inefficient and dying motor, a broken mechanical component, a battery that is too powerful for the motor, a badly shimmed gearbox, too much gearbox resistance, or another problem that is causing stress in the system. The fuse isn't the problem - it is the component that tells you something is wrong. If you don't have a fuse to burn, something else will. If your fuse is blowing, you have a problem. Check the resistance to the gear movement in the gearbox. Chances are that there is something else wrong that is causing the fuse to blow. Igonore it at your peril. Removing a fuse because your battery won't fit in the cavity otherwise is potentially acceptable, but you have to realise that if you get a jam, something expensive is quite likely to burn inside your gun = hefty repair bills. Now to bust a couple of myths... Myth: Removing the fuse gives you a higher rate of fire. Truth: False. A correct fuse will not alter the ROF of your gun. Myth: Removing the fuse allows you to upgrade your gun to a higher level. Truth: False. Upgrading your gun to stupid levels may well start blowing the supplied 15A fuses, but removing the fuse only means that the time between jam and internal burnout is a blink of an eye. You are treating the symptom, not the cause. Myth: Removing the fuse improves the performance of the gun. Truth: No, it doesn't. There is absolutely NO performance to be gained from removing a fuse. Some people (and some popular airsoft retailers) seem to think there is, but there has never been any actual proof, or examples of this being true - EVER. There is a LOT to lose however. Just to re-iterate - FUSE REMOVAL = BAD Hope that helps <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually, removing the fuse DOES allow you to upgrade your gun to a higher performance level. The reason for this is the stock fuses in guns actually have a way lower electical power level. It's like with your house. Say the fuse in your gun is like a 15 Mah. your gun takes up to 35 Mahs of power, (unless you changed it somehow) but the fuse is a safeguard. Does that mean it is a good or bad idea? No, it is a safeguard. Your gun can take a higher mah without hurting the internals, but over a certain limit, It will short your rifle. Btw the numbers are just made up, but there is a simaler ratio Link to post Share on other sites
evansy Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 i leave my fuses in. the way i see it they were put there for a reason so i'll keep them there. the excuse that "it wont fit anywhere" is a bit of a weak one as a fuse only takes up 6mm x 30mm* and as far as i'm aware can go anywhere along the wire between the battery and gearbox so i'm sure theres space somewhere. it might make it harder to check and change if its down by the mini connector by the gearbox but imo its better to have it just in case something does go wrong. *without the case which can be replaced with electircal tape anyway Link to post Share on other sites
squeakyL Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 I removed mine because the connectors were always angled and would break connection with my AEG, thus resulting in no firing. Also, I'm ok with this since I know my parts and my battery shouldn't have any problems Link to post Share on other sites
Zero_DgZ Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 My MP5 doesn't have one because there is no longer any space in that tiny little gun for a folding stock, RIS grip, and eff off giant custom battery. Heck, I don't even like taking the battery out because it's a pain stuffing it back in there. I charge it still in the gun. I figure if I have a meltdown issue or a short the battery will just explode and kill me and that'll kill two birds with one stone. Link to post Share on other sites
brian222 Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 Actually, removing the fuse DOES allow you to upgrade your gun to a higher performance level. The reason for this is the stock fuses in guns actually have a way lower electical power level. It's like with your house. Say the fuse in your gun is like a 15 Mah. your gun takes up to 35 Mahs of power, (unless you changed it somehow) but the fuse is a safeguard. Does that mean it is a good or bad idea? No, it is a safeguard. Your gun can take a higher mah without hurting the internals, but over a certain limit, It will short your rifle. Btw the numbers are just made up, but there is a simaler ratio <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Why you talking about Mah? I think you mean amps. My gun has a 20 amp fuse, and it will never come out. Ever. Link to post Share on other sites
mario114 Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 Mine has a 20amp fuse, when it blew and I by passed it (unitll I could get a spare), it just lead to problems, but it's working fine with a new 20amp fuse inside. Link to post Share on other sites
DarkLite Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 Actually, removing the fuse DOES allow you to upgrade your gun to a higher performance level. The reason for this is the stock fuses in guns actually have a way lower electical power level. It's like with your house. Say the fuse in your gun is like a 15 Mah. your gun takes up to 35 Mahs of power, (unless you changed it somehow) but the fuse is a safeguard. Does that mean it is a good or bad idea? No, it is a safeguard. Your gun can take a higher mah without hurting the internals, but over a certain limit, It will short your rifle. Btw the numbers are just made up, but there is a simaler ratio <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Then replace the fuse with one rated for a higher Amperage. Bduh! What you're saying is essentially: If my front door is made of wood (20A Fuse) and someone tries to break in with a butterknife (Stock GB drawing 15A). They can't do it (Fuse doesn't blow). So the robber upgrades to a fireaxe (Higly upgraded GB drawing 20A). He can now break down your door (15A fuse). So the logical thing to do is to replace your wooden door with a stronger metal door (25A fuse) that can stop the robber. What you're saying is "Pah, if this door is useless I shall remove it completely and not have a door at all.". Which is stupid. Link to post Share on other sites
Sale Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 You know, necroposting is a very admirable thing when you have something to contribute or a related question that hasn't been covered. This continuation of the thread is plain dumb and useless. All the points raised have already been covered. The fact that you speak about Mahs when referring to fuses (even if we were talking about batteries it would be mAh) tells people a thing or two about your knowledge on the subject. Please read the entire topic again if you didn't understand. -Sale Link to post Share on other sites
Jett Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 Remove fuses: No. Break fuses by accident and rewire to save going to the shops: Yes. Link to post Share on other sites
DarkLite Posted April 25, 2006 Report Share Posted April 25, 2006 What about those 'blade' fuses? I've seen them in 25A sizes, so shouldn't you be able to wire in one of those and a suitable connector? They'd be smaller and solve your space problems. Link to post Share on other sites
Belladonna Posted April 25, 2006 Report Share Posted April 25, 2006 ive never had a lecy problem with my guns, and all of them have no fuse, I also know to stop pulling the trigger if it jams and not to cook the battery... plus my m4 needed wireing to the back and i couldnt be arced to put a fuse in the new wire... Link to post Share on other sites
Cpt_Nemo Posted April 25, 2006 Report Share Posted April 25, 2006 I've had my TM gearbox grind, jam and blow a fuse so it does happen. You dont have to have an electrical fault to blow the fuse. Manufacturers dont just bung them in for fun. I can understand why people who have no room in there weapons for fuses go ahead take them out, but you really are playing with fire. I've heard stories of guns with no fuses jamming, followed by smoke as the insulation of the wires and motor windings melt, including the trigger contacts welding together so the gun quite happily cooks itself till you can rip the battery out. If you can disconnect the battery connection which also can melt. It can happen and i'm buggerd if i'd let it happen to my gun. Link to post Share on other sites
Tommygunn Posted April 25, 2006 Report Share Posted April 25, 2006 As some people have mentioned car type fuses solve a lot of space problems. Also, if you have a rear mounted battery and no space you can still have a fuse by re-wiring and extending a loop of wire out the front of the gearbox and have the fuse up front inside a RAS similar to mine. Link to post Share on other sites
Zero_DgZ Posted April 25, 2006 Report Share Posted April 25, 2006 What you're saying is "Pah, if this door is useless I shall remove it completely and not have a door at all.". <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nah, I think a better analogy is to remove the door but cement over the entrance. Then nothing short of explosives will ever break the door/connection, but you have the disadvtantage of never being able to escape through that door if there's a fire in the building (motor overload). Link to post Share on other sites
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