Anybody else miss the good old days?

[UrPeaceKeeper]

i dont take much notice of the forums anymore, other than the off topic. back in the day i'd be interested in most sections of the forum, but i've drifted out of airsoft pretty much so i only come on here to see whats going on in off topic.

 

i miss the old days, not so much because of the forums now, but because how growth in airsoft in general took its grip on my local site, and i suspect others. and for how i like my airsoft, it wasnt for the best. i used to turn up with my team, about 10-15 of us on a friday night. in the very early days, we'd be the only paying customers and have to face the sites crew. but it was mint. we all knew eachother, we all had a laugh, BBQ's, beers, fires, and ridiculous stunts were the order of the whole weekend, friday to sunday. it was a good weekend if 25 customers turned up at the site. the close knit feel of the site and its few attendants was amazing.

 

then chinasoft happened.

 

all of a sudden, loads of people know about airsoft. kids start turning up wanting to pretend they're in an xbox game, wanting to 'own' everybody. all of a sudden friendly faces i've been playing with for the last 2/3 years blend and melt away into a crowd of people i dont want to know and won't speak a word to. then rules have to be changed to cater for the increased custom. not just game rules, but general rules about having fun, big fires, sleeping arrangements. all the things that made it good had to be changed to cope with the responsibility of running a growing company. the 'experience' is replaced with ruthless business. gone are the days when the 'old skool' 'softers could grab a gun off the shop (consisted of 5 guns, all from TM/CA/ICS) and pay next time you turn up. not happening anymore. walls full of china guns, webbing, mags etc. no discount for loyal customers, no favours. just a business.

 

this is when i started to lose my love. for me, actually playing airsoft was only about 25% of my reason for turning up. even when i couldnt afford to shoot, i'd go along with my team just to be involved in the drinking and BBQing, and endless laughter. loads of mates, camping out, having a laugh. 2 full weekends a month. losing this side of the experience, didnt leave me with much reason to keep going.

 

 

clearly this is all only how it affects me. the local site growing as a business is not something i would ever begrudge the owner, he put the work in back in the old days, and hes now reaping the benefits. obviously the business was going to go this way at some point, i knew this, it was just a shame it went all weird at the same time. but, from those days of my team playing against the site crew, the site in questions now has multiple sites across the country, runs multiple large events and is generally seen at the forefront of WW2 airsoft.

 

so its all worked out for the greater good, but for me, it killed airsoft.

 

+1 Reps...

 

Ohh ######, Nostalgia again

 

I'm with Screamin Weasel on this. I'm incredibly happy to see the sport/hobby/thing grow and incorporate more players, but at the same time I can't help but think the quality of player has died significantly with the oncomming of clones. I'm not saying that clones are a bad thing, but where I'm at, for every 2 or 3 guys that buy clones to get into Airsoft, there is about 20 CoD Kiddies that also join. The 20 CoD kiddies really make it difficult for players like myself, who enjoy the BSing and social aspects of Airsoft about as much as I enjoy slinging plastic with friends because they either refuse to bring their maturity level to that of the rest of the players, or are flat out just incapable or annoying to be around. Recently at my field, we've had a population explosion of about 30 new active players (from about 20 prior). With more folks joining our forums every day. The average age of the player has dropped to about... 16 and the maturity of those players is getting lower and lower. I have started to feel like an unpaid baby sitter or an excuse for parents to forget about their children for a few hours than I feel like I'm fighting in a small battle in a war. That disturbs me slightly. Of course, it's not all younger folks fault either, we have a few older players who are just as disconnected from reality as the kids are.

 

Worse yet for me is the lack of involvement aside from "Buy this, that and the other thing and shoot at people." I remember when people actually did their OWN research on stuff, when people actually knew how an AEG operated, and what a "piston" is or does. The lack of commitement to Airsoft has grown nothing short of appauling. I can't imagine any other activity or hobby in which that level of disconnect with the basic understanding of how something works and the person would be acceptable. That brings about a high expectation that Airsoft guns will work forever, which, as we all know they don't and won't, or that they will perform well out of the box, which we know that most don't. Scarey to see some people just ###### away money on a new AEG because a previous doesnt work as well as they wanted to, rather than just taking the time and a little bit of effort to take what they have and run with it.

[Mr. Blue]

Worse yet for me is the lack of involvement aside from "Buy this, that and the other thing and shoot at people." I remember when people actually did their OWN research on stuff, when people actually knew how an AEG operated, and what a "piston" is or does. The lack of commitement to Airsoft has grown nothing short of appauling. I can't imagine any other activity or hobby in which that level of disconnect with the basic understanding of how something works and the person would be acceptable. That brings about a high expectation that Airsoft guns will work forever, which, as we all know they don't and won't, or that they will perform well out of the box, which we know that most don't. Scarey to see some people just ###### away money on a new AEG because a previous doesnt work as well as they wanted to, rather than just taking the time and a little bit of effort to take what they have and run with it.

 

Its funny because this is one of the reasons I left Paintball...

[T3CH]

To me, if they don't know how it works, that's up to them but if they wan to get rid of the 'broken' parts I will hover about like a vulture

 

But I've got to agree with peacekeeper, there are people in the game now who have no clue how the honour system works.

 

Teflon commandos, uber snipers who pitch a fit if their million fps sniper rifle DOESN'T

hit you through heavy forest in a blizzard (slight exaggeration there but you know what I mean), people who frankly I wouldn't trust with a wooden spoon.

 

BUT, there are a few, a precious few who bring honour to the game, and we need to increase that number, education will sort this (not to mention a few site bans for repeated knobbery).

[Pariah_WP]

The weapons I like are psychotically rare, so I am still in the "make it yourself, you scruffy scoundrel!" boat. I have two weapons planned this years that are both going to require bondo, JB Weld, sandpaper, a lathe and 10+ man hours each. I can appreciate the off-the-shelf crowd, but I can almost certainly never be one. I want airsoft guns based off of my real steel guns, but they are too rare. lol

[slyguyfry]

There was a dude on here that made a wa 2000 with a hack saw a file and a couple other hand tools using a wa 1911 as the base. When i started browsing armies i did not even know that there was a forum due to the mass of articles up front.

[hwagan]

I remember the days when if you wanted an Mp5A3, you had to hack up half a G3 to achieve it... When people did, it was awesome - But surely it's no bad thing the parts are easily available now?

 

As Pariah says, he's still knocking out completely custom weapons, and so are plenty of others.

 

I have to say, when custom parts weren't available, EVERYONE would have either an M4, an Mp5, an M16, a G3 or a FAMAS with nothing but tokyo marui bolt ons to differentiate between them. Now, with the available parts, it's very difficult to find 2 guns exactly the same at a site. Maybe similar, but there's still a lot of individuality amongst the various weapons, even if it isn't as difficult to put them together.

 

As for the game itself, i haven't noticed anything but good things happening. I remember when i was a young'un and used to play at a site i won't name, there was a usual turnout of about 20 people. 10 of those were the regulars, 5 were myself and a few other regulars younger than the main group, and another 5 or so randoms. The randoms never came back, because the 10 regulars could cheat all they liked and use hot guns with nothing to fear.

 

I'd say now, with all the UKARA and spread of the sport, sure there are a few more iron noobs - Conversely, there's an awful lot more sites where being a regular and having a license to cheat is no longer an option.

 

I miss the old days a little, sure - But i think we've made a hell of a lot of progress in several good ways. It's like owning a puppy. Sure, it doesn't do some of the stupid cute things it used to because it's grown up and learned, but at the same time, it doesn't turd all over the carpet anymore, fetches your slippers and doesn't sleep on your face all night.

[Kipper]

One thing I've noticed is that everyone has a loadout now.

[hwagan]

Definitely true - I used to have nothing but some old S95 DPM and '58 webbing i found in a skip... That was an awesome loadout.

[TheFull9]

I lol'd.

 

You found webbing in a skip, thought 'hmm, that'll do for airsoft', pulled it out and used it? Heh, that's the most anti-gucci thing I've ever heard in my life, value for money though that's for sure.

[hwagan]

Well i noticed a webbing belt hanging out of a black bag in said skip, and thought 'i wonder what that is'... pulled it out, and it was a complete set of '58 webbing with 2 water bottle pouches, 4 (what i assume to be) SLR pouches, and the yoke... I was 16 at the time, and genuinely thought it was the best thing that had ever happened... I've since upgraded to a viper belt and a few mag pouches and some cheap leg-rigs, but my total gear is worth about £100, clothing included.

 

Gucci guns maybe, but fancy M4 parts are too expensive to bother spending money on the clothing to go with it

[Stealthbomber]

Frankly, I'm eternally grateful to Chris Costa for making a pair of combat pants, a fleece and a belt-rig an acceptable load-out.

[catfishsalesco]

I started Airsoft in the dying days of the good old days apparently..... Either way, china marketed (as it was made in china all along ) kit was only appearing, everyone remember the Well (UTG) mp5? (UTG am not rebrand!!!!!)

There did seem to be a bit more innovation on the part of making models that hadn't been released, although they were mostly plasticard & body filler affairs. That and a genuine eo-tech was considered the holy grail of *suitcase* you could bolt onto your AR-15.

There does seem to be a fair bit on innovation focused on the internals of the guns though, with fire control comps, specialist gear sets & other bits.

That said, what passes for "custom" these days is a combination of rail covers, optics, stock & redimag that is one variation different to the last one. Or buying an off the shelf kit & fitting it.

[bladerunner168]

I think that statement sort of sums up plenty of what you guys are on about. Back in the good old days airsoft was better because the wheat was separated from the chaff. Guys like bladerunner would just drop out. Guys with commitment, ingenuity and enthusiasm would stick with and improve airsoft.

 

Since we now have the wheat AND the chaff it means that the total number of airsofters has dramatically increased in just 3 years or so.

 

P.s. no personal offence intended bladerunner, just using you as an example of a self professed 'tech noob'

 

P.p.s. want some nostalgia? Look no further...

[/quot

 

I take no offence but I am curious of your argument....

 

You (and most of the contributors to this thread) are saying that airsoft was better when everyone had to make their own gear?

Yes, I admire the ingenuity of those who are competant enough to the mech/tech work themselves that comes with custom jobs but those who don't/can't do not lack the commitment or enthusiasm to make airsoft better, they just choose a different path which leads to the same ends.

 

Airsoft and its gear should be two completely separate things, you could be a superb airsoft gunsmith but be absolutely ###### at airsoft. Or, you could be that that person who turns up in a fleece, jeans and trainers, with nothing more than a unmodified China clone M4 and be the most badaasss ninja ever to hit the site.

 

When all is said and done, whether you have Gucci gear or plain Jane gear, whether you made your own stuff or brought it out of the box, all our objectives are still the same, to have fun whilst playing airsoft. How we go about do it is up to the player themselves and should make no difference to other players if it doen't spoil their fun as well.

 

This wheat and chaff business, has a whiff of eliteism about it.....

[Zmarre]

I would pay good money for that G36C/FAMAS/P90 :L

 

You are actually perfectly confirming the point of Stealthie.

[hwagan]

When all is said and done, whether you have Gucci gear or plain Jane gear, whether you made your own stuff or brought it out of the box, all our objectives are still the same, to have fun whilst playing airsoft. How we go about do it is up to the player themselves and should make no difference to other players if it doen't spoil their fun as well.

 

I agree with pretty much everything this guy just said. I'm in that camp. With my cheapo beltrig and expensive MRP. And a whoopass factory.

[3vi1-D4n]

eh? Elitism? ? Nah...Skills is not a determinant of "what is good airsoft"

 

Airsoft is such a large and vague concept, and differs so much from yesteryears.

 

In the old days, because airsoft was a much simpler concept. It was just a bunch of mates playing team on team, building on our instinctive skills of hunting and team sports. We spend time prepping/making our gear and making/tuning our weapons so that it was effective on the day. On the other end it was the collectors/and gunsmiths who would home-job their creations. Skills was time spent on the field which is reflected by the refined/self customised and worn gear we wore, as well as the ability to create a unique weapon. This was "good airsoft" back then.

 

Today it is very different. On one side we have the "COD gamer"/"Generation Kill" types with their red neck shootouts, and on the opposite end are the anally retentive milsim/FoF training types (such as myself).

 

With the "Generation Kill" crowd, with the availability of gear and weapons, it takes away the effort that the old crowd used to do in the yesteryear and places them straight into a redneck shootout. With the easily obtainable equipment, you can quit the sport and community as easily as dropping your money. Its almost an instant gratification with no need for commitment. This is seen to be "good airsoft" today, for many of the players.

 

In the old days we customised our gear because we figured out what works for ourselves, and effort put into our guns gear was because we were committed to improving ourselves, our game and our community. Now of course thats all changed.

 

In the old days, a player with well customised gear does reflect that the player have a high skill level, because to attain the personal ability to customise the gear means one has tried and tested, and has made the gear suitable for him/herself. Their weapon is made to reflect on their need, their uniqueness and their expressionism. Airsoft was an artform.

 

Today, a player with a well "customised" gear in general, just means he is obsessed enough to troll through militaryphotos.net and copy whichever special forces was wearing last season. Their weapons are made to reflect whichever model is currently being used in Iraq. These players measure their fun by the number of kills they had during the day, and their kills to death ratio.

 

So when you say, a person with the best gear does not mean he is a good player, is very true, but only because we live in an age where beauty and attraction is only skin deep, that we are so comfortable with the easily available resources that we forgot the true meaning of value, and inner strength.

 

And as it was then, at the end of the Roman empire...

[Yeager]

Even though I've been out of the loop for a good long while now, I've recently found myself dropping back by Arnies more and more frequently now. I keep looking at all the old vendors & sites I used to frequent and it's like I'm looking at a totally new sport.

 

I remember back when you could easily get an AEG or Gas rifle that rivaled the real thing in terms of finish quality. The majority of the popular "off the shelf" stuff I see today can't hold a candle to the guns I used to see. Hell, my TM P90 was finished better externally than the real PS90 I bought to replace it. Think about that.. that's what made the $250-400 dollar guns worth it for me.

 

I Remember Inferno's Badger launcher & MPL, Spiggy's G36K back before there even was a kit available to build such a thing, Turner's awesome collection of wood clad weapons (which inspired, and drove me quite a bit back in the day.), Evil Hippy's arsenal of win, Tascabe & RedAlliance, GuzziHero's bike, HaVoc's box thing, Sledge , Far East's reviews, 101matt1 jokes, TCB's hawt loadout, SniperX & the whole Sun Project & Escort thing. I can remember the first China clones coming along and how staunchly I opposed them. I remember defending my opinions, pulling all kinds of stupid *suitcase* & starting stupid flame wars in various threads.

 

I remember back when there was pride in ownership, back when owning a classic, or some high end, one off was a "big deal". I remember the thrill of the chase as I PM'ed people with trade offers. I remember the tightly knit community where everyone knew everyone else, and for the most part were all friends. I remember the clique I ran with on this forum & all the friends I made thanks to airsoft.

 

I grew up on places like Arnies, I always felt more at home on forums like this than I did anywhere else. I always felt like I just "Fit" here, something I haven't been able to find in the RS world. I suppose that's why I'm dropping back by more often now.

 

Things change though, people change, places change. Airsoft has changed, as have I.. It's a part of life, and reminiscing about old times aren't going to bring them back. If we want the old days back, the days we sit here and so fondly talk about. We're going to have to bring them back ourselves.

 

I've been saving up my money for a while, and looking into getting something truly unique to make my re-entry into airsoft. I've been tinkering with old gearboxes, and re-learning everything I forgot during my Hiatus. I've been running a million ideas through my head for the past two months, so keep your eyes peeled! Over the next 6 months I'll be gathering supplies, and buying the materials to build my own one of a kind AEG.

-Yeager

 

P.S. SURPRISE *FRUITCAGE*!

[ardrummer292]

Welcome back man, it's been awhile.

 

By the way, if it's a PKM... sorry mate, might have to steal it.

[Kenworth W900]

@bladerunner:

 

My point was that if you have the technical knowledge, and/or the commitment to gain the technical knowledge, to know how something works then you're more likely to have a better idea of how to use it/what it can do, etc.

 

It just so happens that the same traits needed to break down the limitations of what is currently available to create something that you want - commitment, ingenuity and enthusisasm - happen to be those which I want my fellow airsofters to have on the actual battlefield.

 

And btw, my gear is as plane jane as the next blokes, as is my gun - you wouldn't sense eliteism to look at me, at all. Although, I am proud of my custom creations.

[Yeager]

Welcome back man, it's been awhile.

 

By the way, if it's a PKM... sorry mate, might have to steal it.

 

No, it's not going to be a GPMG.

 

 

Nice to see you again btw.

[The Crunchy Bunny]

Unfortunatly I started airsoft for the most part after the good 'ole days (shortly after I started playing the first ACM's began arriving). Regardless I think it's sad that I'm one of very few local players who have more then one gun that is internally stock, including my V2 TM M4, back when those were still considered the best starter guns. I tend to only upgrade my guns when something breaks, not a day after I get a new gun. I also appriaciate those old custom builds,something that isn't seen that much anymore. And the gun I'm the most proud of in my small arsenal is my AIM, because I spent the time to mod the real steel furniture to fit. As much as I like my shiny MOLLE gear, I also am growing to appriciate older stuff, like my VN SOG kit, mostly because it's fun to see the reaction of the kids when they realize they've just been killed by the dood they were making fun of in the safe zone for wearing 40 year old gear and black sprayed fatigues with slanted pockets and no velcro.

[Dentonboy]

What an interesting topic.

 

I would love to be skilled enough, or have the mental capacity to fix my AEG, let alone build one. Sadly, my brain keeps useless information; like who played in Arsenal's back four in 1996/97 and what boots they wore...I have never had the apptitude to do anything mechanical (to my father's chagrin) and thus my reliance on off-the-shelf bits and bobs, and the help of others when things went boobies-up (Slacky, Steve & Russ at CS) was and is still hugely appreciated.

 

I wanted an AEG since about 1992. I bought my first NBB TM Desert eagle in 1993 and it cost me (with bits) about £80, which was everything I owned currency wise. I had skirmishes in the garden with springers and 'borrowed' safety glasses from the science department. I hoovered up springers at army shows, Sussex Model Centre and read GunMart with a yearning for these expensive bits of kit...

 

I have found that when you rock up to a skirmish, or at least where I go (CSW), no-one comments negatively on your gear, gun, whatever. The only bitching is on the forums, where, woe betide a person will post a picture, maybe a black holster with Multicam, or a helmet 1 cm higher than their own, a host of negative replies will follow. Some are from the brave guys out there, doing in it for real (no, I'm not going into the politics of all that for once), and have every right to say 'this is how I've seen it' but others seem to be from fanboys, pedants and nasty keyboard jockeys who have their idea of ideal and that is the law.

 

Do I miss the good old days of skirmishing?; regulars against 'noobs' - and then when you have worked your way up to 'regular' status, you think you have arrived? No, it was an illusion. You became elitest and the noobs an 'annoyance' with their (damn) clones, two-tones and replica kit. Wanting yet another AEG/Gucci kit? A false economy. In hindsight, mostly pointless and materialistic.

 

I am grateful that CSW is a superb, largely stress-free and open community of airsofters.

 

I miss the youthfulness of springers in the garden, for shooting someone without injury; as long as safety specs' were on, and the anticipation that one day, you could afford something you've always wanted.

 

Life gets in the way, and circumstances change and priorities change. Airsoft takes the inevitable backseat. Those youngsters that have spent a fortune on kit etc. may regret such spending when they grow up and realise that airsoft isn't the be-all and end-all.

 

Airsoft, in its purest form is for me several people wanting to outwit the others in order to get the first shot and hit in.

 

I am in part gutted that I fell for the materialistic aspects of the hobby after I logged into the forums, saw what others were doing and aspired to be like them. False idols and all of that!

 

I feel I have rambled enough. Having a passion for these things, since the 1990s does that to an aging brain!

 

My advice to the new generation - play it to enjoy it, do it your own way.

 

 

 

Oh, and Ben...your contributions, so funny, so, so funny!

[L4byr1nth]

 

I still mean to visit CSW to see you, one of these days Greg!

 

Ben.

[bladerunner168]

@ Kenworth

 

Eliteism is not in the gear, it's in the attitude.

To suggest that "good 'ole day" players are better than newer players, well, I just can't agree with that. (and that's not beacuse I see myself as new too )

[Dentonboy]

Impreza ready to be fired up Ben.

 

Will fit in a booster seat just for you bud!