Sniper Pistols

[warren280474]

well i have to say that there is some awsome guns on this thread, wonders what one can do with some money

[Dagonet]

Finished.

 

It's more solid than i expected. I was going to cover the stock/shaft in an inner tube but the size i have wouldnt stretch over it so went for black duck tape instead. The T butt is covered in inner tube.

 

The two velcro straps work very well, and it takes seconds to install the stock or remove it. If Marui had laid out the carry case a bit different then the stock might have squeezed in. If i remove the poly tray the stock fits the carry case.

 

The pistol is still stock as a g-spec barrel will put me over my site limits, i reckon a drop in tight bore (if i can find one) would do the job and stay within my 350fps limit.

 

Short to mid range urban sniping package. Got some .25 and .28 to feed it with during testing at the weekend.

 

Now with the g-spec conversion, and a small scope...... would this be up there with the VSRs ?

 

[scar527]

Mods can we get this pinned?

[The Bushman]

yes; topic pinned.

 

Good Hunting

[scar527]

Many thanks^^

[Dagonet]

Pinned !

 

Didnt get to test out the stock. Instead of fast and furious 1-2 hour games the day at LAC was an all day 7 hour epic game, and it was a very long walk out and back in to change shooters. So it stayed in the car.

 

However. I have been playing around indoors with the stock.

Adding some more tape where the stock wraps round the pistol grip has improved things, i was going to try a strip of leather or thin foam, but building up with tape has worked.

 

The pistol sits quite firmly now in the stock with no wobble. The LAM unit makes a nice handhold, but the difference when you take it off is quite something. The set up is so light and fast to get on target. Double tapping is fast and stable, even one handed as it's so light.

The grip is secure enough to lift the pistol by picking up the T-bar butt. Mag changes are slightly strange due to the different hand swell of the wrap round. Mags drop out and insert as normal with the stock attached.

 

Got something else to try out. (working away now so no game playing for a while)

As i understand things, sound is omni-directional. You tend to pick up faster on someone shooting at you because there body is partly reflecting the sound waves in your direction and the piston slap ( muzzle blast ) is directed sound through the barrel. And sound travels faster than your BB does.

 

I have done the quiet mod to the hammer. Bit of stick on foam to quieten hammer slap. I suppose i could dremel a portion off the inner face of the hammer, as the valve knocker is quite low down. The top face of the hammer dosent strike a pin or valve and is more cosmetic than doing anything.

 

Now i intend to tape up the pistol and camo it. It's already very quiet, you get a slight pop or muzzle report, but it's mostly hammer slap.

 

When i tape up the pistol, i intend to make a small pocket around the hammer, big enough to get a thumb in there to cock it. So the hammer will be 3/4 enclosed.

 

If my mad science is right, any sound from the hammer striking will be directed downwards and not to my flanks or rear. As the pistol is stock and around 300 fps on a warm day, i reckon 40m will be pushing it for targets. I will mostly be under 40m range, so closer to targets/players, so quieter is better.

 

I intend to try this out at a later date, at least the wierd science will play on other players mind when they ask about the set up

I am curious if anyone else has tried this out.....The Bushman, have you tried this out ?

I dont expect a massive decrease in sound, but changing the direction, i think in theory it will work. I do not have access to a decibel meter to check and confirm results, so my feedback will be down to my hearing and who ever i rope into testing the theory at my next game day.

[vorpalbunnie]

Finished.

 

It's more solid than i expected. I was going to cover the stock/shaft in an inner tube but the size i have wouldnt stretch over it so went for black duck tape instead. The T butt is covered in inner tube.

 

The two velcro straps work very well, and it takes seconds to install the stock or remove it. If Marui had laid out the carry case a bit different then the stock might have squeezed in. If i remove the poly tray the stock fits the carry case.

 

The pistol is still stock as a g-spec barrel will put me over my site limits, i reckon a drop in tight bore (if i can find one) would do the job and stay within my 350fps limit.

 

Short to mid range urban sniping package. Got some .25 and .28 to feed it with during testing at the weekend.

 

Now with the g-spec conversion, and a small scope...... would this be up there with the VSRs ?

 

 

 

 

damn, thinki have to get a mk23 now!

[The Bushman]

When i tape up the pistol, i intend to make a small pocket around the hammer, big enough to get a thumb in there to cock it. So the hammer will be 3/4 enclosed.

 

If my mad science is right, any sound from the hammer striking will be directed downwards and not to my flanks or rear. As the pistol is stock and around 300 fps on a warm day, i reckon 40m will be pushing it for targets. I will mostly be under 40m range, so closer to targets/players, so quieter is better.

 

I intend to try this out at a later date, at least the wierd science will play on other players mind when they ask about the set up

I am curious if anyone else has tried this out.....The Bushman, have you tried this out ?

 

 

Our MK23 pistols are stock and taped up. They are very quiet. I figure your wierd science might work, but am unsure how much. The main noise comes down the barrel from the gas expanding.

 

My best advice is to switch to 0.30g . You will notice better grouping and overall, a longer range. You can shoot further than 40m with good accuracy.

 

Good Hunting

[Dagonet]

Vorpalbunnie.... do it !

This was my first airsoft peice. After doing a stack of research they always came up with good feedback. So simple inside, not much to go wrong and a proven history for being reliable. Add to that it came with a carry case and the extras are useable, i got one. They look big but aren't heavy, and depending on your countrys airsoft laws can be tuned up to serious power levels. Mine will be staying stock (does have a purple nineball rubber).

 

The Bushman, thanks for the feedback.

When i have used it in games, most players dont pick up on the sound over the chatter of other gearboxes.

However, a few, at shorter range have found me very quickly, they can pick up on the pop/muzzle blast, they tend to be the more experienced players who have used silenced airsoft guns them selves and notice the odd sound.

I have watched some of your films and noticed you camo tape the pistols. The advantage may only be a slight reduction in sound or only a slight re-direction of sound (with out a decibel meter i can not confirm my idea ) but at the shorter ranges i will be playing any extra help is a bonus.

 

The pistol is stock apart from a nine ball hop rubber and PTFE taped hopunit and using Abbey Ultra at the moment. I will get some .30s to try at my next game. I would be very happy with 35-40m range anymore would be a bonus.

 

I am away working for a few weeks so it might be some time before i can do any work with the pistol. I will re-take the photo i have posted already and a camo shot as well when i am back home. My next game day should be shorter games so more chance to slope off and do my own thing

 

To everyone else out there, don't think of this as just a TM MK23 thread, theres been some quality shooters on display, keep them coming (someone out there must have a scoped up Desert Eagle)

[Mud Puppy]

Well I've ended up going for the PX4 as the reviews have been so good. I've managed to source a solution that means it can take a silencer (from Elite Shooting Centre), and a universal scope mount (from the range), but as I'm hoping it will be effective at AEG ranges with the right upgrades, I'm looking for advice on which will provide a better solution for targeting at the limits of its range (~40 yards)? Is there anything specific to pistols that makes red dots as apposed to low magnification pistol scopes more suitable? Is it the other way round? Is it down to preference?

 

Ta

 

Matt

[RSM]

I would say preference...a red dot will generally provide faster target acquisition and the likes of the C-More as opposed to the 20/30mm tubes allow you to, well...see more. Weight and balance would also be a factor.

 

While I've made shots with various pistol iron sights out to 50m before the only benefit an optic would give me is that its only one point (the dot/cross hair) to line up, rather than having to align foresight and rear sight so a red dot may help you snap off the longer range shots faster/more accurately. A low mag scope on the other hand is likely to be as distracting as normal sights as any movement of the pistol is going to be (apparently) amplified in the magnification.

[Dagonet]

Been eyeing up those scope mounts from the range myself for my G17 so i can run a red dot on it. Whats the quality like Mud Puppy of the mounts ?

 

I have used Scopes in the past on other things. Scopes tend to be heavy compared to a red dot, and you will suffer scope wobble when aiming. The higher the mag of the scope the more the cross hair appears to wobble, off hand is hard, two handed works better, bench resting for a single shot tack driver is best with a scope. Although thats what works for me.

The style of shooting is more long range varminting or plate shooting (big sport in the states, not here in the uk ) i found it much more precise with 2.5 mag to see whats going on, slow but precise.

 

Red dots on the other hand, lighter than scope, smaller, easy to pick up the red dot ( i prefer just the dot, using a multi recticle sight ) still takes some getting used to.

I made my scope rail for the MK23 so i could still use iron sights with out a sight attached, as the rail is fixed and blocks the iron sights (had to channel out the centre), the red dot is a step up from iron sights, more precise aiming at range, and the scope is even more precise again than a red dot but slower to aquire and aim on target ( for me anyway )

 

A while back i started a thread about race gun tuning for gaming, taking parts of the race gun world for practical use in a dirty woodland area.

 

This video is well worth watching. They have filmed through the red dot sight so you can see the effect of recoil on the sight picture from a standard BBU engine to a lightened slide and engine. My aim for primary use was to reduce the recoil of my G17 and speed the cycle rate up.

Anyway Sharkshooter2011s video on Japanese airsoft race guns.

Maybe going off topic into the world of Race guns, but i think some elements of there set up will carry over for practical pistol primary use in games, or just enjoy watching the shiny tricked up hi cappas

 

 

edit, www.jsramsbottom.com in the UK have a cheap pistol scope £30, well worth having a look over there.

[Mud Puppy]

Been eyeing up those scope mounts from the range myself for my G17 so i can run a red dot on it. Whats the quality like Mud Puppy of the mounts ?

 

 

Don't know yet, I'm working offshore for a couple of weeks more yet so I'll find out and post my results when I get home

 

edit, www.jsramsbottom.com in the UK have a cheap pistol scope £30, well worth having a look over there.

 

 

Yeah, that was the bad boy I was looking at - the 2.5x32? The only thing it doesn't say is how long the eye relief actually is, but it's deigned for pistols so it should be on a par at a guess.

 

Can't access youtube on the boat due to internet n&zis, so I'm starved of 6mm hunters vid's and reviews of the moving picture variety

 

Might have to wait till I get back to decide on which to get, but I have an itchy 'buy button' finger, so I may go for the C more and sell it if it's not right for my style of play (if I ever get any style). My first thought was that if Elite Shooting Centre only sell red dots...

 

Cheers for the advice guys

 

Matt

[Dagonet]

Mike only sells a few at Elite, he gets things to order as well.

I have been there and used him a few times. Top service and always learn something when i have spoken to him.

 

I have a Panorama Red dot on the MK23 with 5 aiming elements. cheapish, light, varible brightness, shorter than a C-more.

Think Elite can pull in a real C-more, the Clones weren't cheap but well made, a very proven design. I like to think of my Panorama as a poor mans knock off

 

I also have a Walther badged knock-off of a Tasco Pro-point type 30mm Tube red dot. Chunky in size, well built, varible brightness, intergrated mounts for weaver (like the JSR ones)

 

The eye relief on pistol scopes can vary. You should be able to work it at arms length and closer. A while back (think it was Gamo) pistol scopes where mounted to the breech area on break barrel air rifles. I was thinking of doing this on my M14 Scout as it has the forward rail, although i have now decided that lugging a dirty great M14 about all day is not for me, be even worse with a scope and bipod etc etc. Would like to try a VSR as they are light, i dont have the time or easy access to shoot and set the thing up. The MK23 is my baby VSR, just have to get a bit closer to the target and it's easy to set up.

 

I too work away....so dont get to many games, the pistols are way too much fun and easy to work on. I play at www.lincolnshireairsoftclub.co.uk they are getting used to me jumping out of a bush and picking a long range shoot out against aegs.

You stride out like James Bond, they look at you like your mad, they only see a pistol so ignore you, then you nail them and run off laughing as they thought they where well out of range for a pistol.....i loves it

[Mud Puppy]

Well site 1 is only about an hour and a half from me, so I might try and make it up for the 9th October game

[renegadecow]

It's still possible to do fast-ish target acquisition with magnified handgun sopes, but entails a lot of practice. One technique is to use both eyes open, which is what Trijicon says works best with their ACOGs ("BAC" system). Another is to get used to a stance with a lot of joints being locked for ease of muscle memory. Personally I do an isosceles stance with the shoulders hunched up and the head slightly lowered to lock the neck. This effectively makes a solid turret and you control aim at the waist.

[Mud Puppy]

Would a buffalo stance work?

[Dagonet]

Ok sort of staying on topic with a photo of Desert Eagles. Real ones i belive lifted from google images. I couldn't find an airsoft version of this photo.

 

So we have a stock DE, and the 10" version sporting a scope which i think in airsoft terms would be a cheap job to do.

 

As i understand the TM 10" DE still runs the stock length inner barrel and the extra barrel length is for show.......so drilling out the muzzle plug to allow a longer barrel should be a five min job. You will have to do some drilling on a MK23 as well for the G-spec conversion.

TM MK23 inner barrel =132.5mm. TM DE inner barrel =135mm. As i understand it the DE takes standard hop fitting barrels so an aftermarket nineball 7" 6.03 should be a straightforward fit, maybe a nineball purple rubber and add a scope and you have a long range airsoft varminter/sniper set up. Desert Eagles already have an intergrated top rail for scopes as it's what the real ones where designed for.

Not subtle or quiet but bombproof build quality and holsters that fit this (without the scope) also fit the MK23. I nearly went this way when i started airsoft, but traded off for the useable extras and slience of the MK23.

 

A primary needs a back up, this is what i have been up to for mine, a tweeked TM G17 www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/190931-race-gun-tuning/ the thread has been quiet due to me having a big break due to working away from airsoft. I will update it in a months time. The end result though is a TM G17 doing around 312fps on .20 with Abby ultra gas at 18o

I just need another game day to dial in the hop and range test them both.

 

Edit.

P.S. Mudpuppy, October 9th if i am free i will let you know....maybe Team sniper pistol can have some fun !

[Mud Puppy]

P.S. Mudpuppy, October 9th if i am free i will let you know....maybe Team sniper pistol can have some fun !

 

Coolio, will have to check with the boss (wife).

 

This is the look I'm going for with the PX4 (image courtesy of Umarex)

[mimesis]

One of the best-looking removeable universal pistol optic mounts (ones you don't have to tap the frame to install) comes as part of the kit supplied with this KWC. I haven't been able to find it anywhere available separately. Fits on the lower accessory rail.

 

 

So as second best, I've got one of these on order. Looking nearly as good. We'll see how it turns out.

 

[Mud Puppy]

Can't find the USM anywhere in the UK

[mimesis]

It's made by Fab-Defense, an Israeli company, and distributed in the US by Mako.

 

http://www.fab-defense.com/en/category-rail-systems-and-mounting-solutions/id-218/handgun-universal-scope-mount.html

 

Try Amazon, ebay, etc. Also try searching "Fab Defense" (or Defence...).

[Dagonet]

looking good mimesis

 

Sometimes i think i should have just got a hi-cappa as aftermarket parts are dead easy to get hold of in the in UK (some of us arent keen on ordering overseas so have to suck it up )

 

I looked into the proper Nineball MK23 scope mount ages ago, in the UK it came to about £60 plus postage and was out of stock, and was in two seperate parts as well, not a complete one peice kit.

 

The thing with my TM G17 is i know it's not quite the same size as a real one, and TM are a slightly different size to KWA/C

All about £25, the range have an ACM G17 that fits both TM & KWA (or does it ? )

They have the universal mount, fits any pistol with a rail, a single sided version of what mimesis has posted. First thing i would do is try on the MK23 just to know.

 

Or i can get a real G17 mount from Fab Defense, that does use a replacement trigger pin, and i think the TM placement is off but the KWA/C is the same as a real one.

 

Anyone tried to mount up a TM G17 what works. (goes off to do a stack of research before shopping )

 

Edit.

mimesis beat me to it. For Uk only try www.usmcpro.com they only seem to carry the glock mounts though.

[Mud Puppy]

Well I'll see how the mount I've ordered works out first, and the internet police won't let me onto usmcpro.com here anyway.

 

On a different note, I've just read the thread on here by Gisburn20 who's mod'd his KJ works GBB rifle's recoil buffer to reduce stress on it. One of the side effects has been to reduce the noise of the action - is this something that could be applied to GBB pistols? Excuse my ignorance of the inner workings of these things, but my momma said there ain't no stupid questions son...

[The Bushman]

The MK23 is a NBB (non blow back); so nothing actually recoils in the gun. So no need to dampen the recoil buffer. Semi auto is acheived by having a long trigger pull that manually loads the pellet, cocks the hammer and then releases it.

 

The GBB (gas blow back) rifle has recycling of the the parts to recock the hammer and load the next pellet. Pulling the trigger releases the hammer and brings the recoiling parts into action, preparing the next shot automaticaly.

 

You are right, there are no stupid questions. Asking questions and getting answers is simply how we learn. Feel free to ask away.

 

Good Hunting